micspamYou're not wrong, but don't forget that because of quickplay a ton of the old community servers shut down.
When I was doing the text I managed to delete this part. Yes you are right.
Muselk's criticism of the MyM update
posted in
TF2 General Discussion
[quote=micspam]
You're not wrong, but don't forget that because of quickplay a ton of the old community servers shut down.[/quote]
When I was doing the text I managed to delete this part. Yes you are right.
You're not wrong, but don't forget that because of quickplay a ton of the old community servers shut down.[/quote]
When I was doing the text I managed to delete this part. Yes you are right.
truktrukThis is a perfectly reasonable video that addresses a lot of the core complaints within this update. The only point I disagree with is the removal of Quickplay in favor of Casual mode. At this update's current state Casual mode is the only refreshing part. It reminds me of when I pubbed back in 2010 and everyone in the sever actually played the objective and tried to win. I don't support the idea that makes it a no fun zone and super competitive, it's literally the game at its core.
But you see Kurt, Muselk enjoys 24/7 Hightower.
[quote=truktruk]This is a perfectly reasonable video that addresses a lot of the core complaints within this update. The only point I disagree with is the removal of Quickplay in favor of Casual mode. At this update's current state Casual mode is the only refreshing part. It reminds me of when I pubbed back in 2010 and everyone in the sever actually played the objective and tried to win. I don't support the idea that makes it a no fun zone and super competitive, it's literally the game at its core.[/quote]
But you see Kurt, Muselk enjoys 24/7 Hightower.
But you see Kurt, Muselk enjoys 24/7 Hightower.
All I know about how this update affected how people play the game is from forums like this and videos like Muselks. For me, this update was the worst thing that's ever happened to TF2, I literally cannot find a single server where I get <300 ping and have a framerate above like 10 fps.
All I know about how this update affected how people play the game is from forums like this and videos like Muselks. For me, this update was the worst thing that's ever happened to TF2, I literally cannot find a single server where I get <300 ping and have a framerate above like 10 fps.
FMX1All I know about how this update affected how people play the game is from forums like this and videos like Muselks. For me, this update was the worst thing that's ever happened to TF2, I literally cannot find a single server where I get <300 ping and have a framerate above like 10 fps.
this update did nothing to lower fps, and if you can't find a server in the server browser with less than 300 ping, you have something wrong with your internet.
I do agree with many of muselk's points. The lack of communication between valve and the community can be very frustrating.
[quote=FMX1]All I know about how this update affected how people play the game is from forums like this and videos like Muselks. For me, this update was the worst thing that's ever happened to TF2, I literally cannot find a single server where I get <300 ping and have a framerate above like 10 fps.[/quote]
this update did nothing to lower fps, and if you can't find a server in the server browser with less than 300 ping, you have something wrong with your internet.
I do agree with many of muselk's points. The lack of communication between valve and the community can be very frustrating.
this update did nothing to lower fps, and if you can't find a server in the server browser with less than 300 ping, you have something wrong with your internet.
I do agree with many of muselk's points. The lack of communication between valve and the community can be very frustrating.
Muselk talks about the removal of quick-play and goes on to say, "I love playing in my FAVORITE Upward Server, but they removed quick-play and added casual."
... Woah, It's like he doesn't know what he's talking about.
Only thing he got right was the failure to communicate.
Muselk talks about the removal of quick-play and goes on to say, "I love playing in my [i]FAVORITE[/i] Upward Server, but they removed quick-play and added casual."
... Woah, It's like he doesn't know what he's talking about.
Only thing he got right was the failure to communicate.
... Woah, It's like he doesn't know what he's talking about.
Only thing he got right was the failure to communicate.
Blaine_Only thing he got right was the failure to communicate.
I mean, I'm all for Muselk bashing, but pretty much everything he listed in this video is a valid concern that the majority of the community agrees with.
- Puzzling weapon balance, mixed with a sense that Valve doesnt understand what makes certain weapons over/underpowered
- Public matches plagued with cheaters
- Lack of any meaningful feedback or communication, "neato"
- comp MM lacking skill based placement or even a (seemingly) match based on level
- Lack of abandon punishments + not rewarding the winners
- Locked viewmodel FOV
- Historical proof of half baked updates and poor decisions
I think it would be more accurate to say the only thing he got wrong was his complaint about casual servers, which still do exist. Don't get me wrong, I find his videos as annoying as the next person, but if you're gunna bash at least watch the video and make a well thought out argument before you post.
[quote=Blaine_]
Only thing he got right was the failure to communicate.[/quote]
I mean, I'm all for Muselk bashing, but pretty much everything he listed in this video is a valid concern that the majority of the community agrees with.
- Puzzling weapon balance, mixed with a sense that Valve doesnt understand what makes certain weapons over/underpowered
- Public matches plagued with cheaters
- Lack of any meaningful feedback or communication, "neato"
- comp MM lacking skill based placement or even a (seemingly) match based on level
- Lack of abandon punishments + not rewarding the winners
- Locked viewmodel FOV
- Historical proof of half baked updates and poor decisions
I think it would be more accurate to say the only thing he got wrong was his complaint about casual servers, which still do exist. Don't get me wrong, I find his videos as annoying as the next person, but if you're gunna bash at least watch the video and make a well thought out argument before you post.
Only thing he got right was the failure to communicate.[/quote]
I mean, I'm all for Muselk bashing, but pretty much everything he listed in this video is a valid concern that the majority of the community agrees with.
- Puzzling weapon balance, mixed with a sense that Valve doesnt understand what makes certain weapons over/underpowered
- Public matches plagued with cheaters
- Lack of any meaningful feedback or communication, "neato"
- comp MM lacking skill based placement or even a (seemingly) match based on level
- Lack of abandon punishments + not rewarding the winners
- Locked viewmodel FOV
- Historical proof of half baked updates and poor decisions
I think it would be more accurate to say the only thing he got wrong was his complaint about casual servers, which still do exist. Don't get me wrong, I find his videos as annoying as the next person, but if you're gunna bash at least watch the video and make a well thought out argument before you post.
"I miss joining valve pubs and destroying 12 year old Taiwanese children with no steam avatar and 300 ping, this update sucks."
"I miss joining valve pubs and destroying 12 year old Taiwanese children with no steam avatar and 300 ping, this update sucks."
A lot of misinformation in that video...
MuselkThere's also no map selection, meaning that you really don't even get to choose the type of TF2 that you play anymore
MuselkWhen I see Valve make a completely horrible patch decision for TF2, I think that they're actually gunna realize that problem and fix it. I held off on making this video because I thought that Valve, after seeing the complete outcry from the TF2 community, after seeing player numbers drop, after seeing almost every casual and competitive match plagued with unbalanced games, high ping and hackers, I thought that they might realize 'Hey, maybe some of these changes aren't for the best, let's fix it' but, as it's been for years now, they didn't do that, and, I mean, maybe a few weeks or months down the line we might see a couple of things get changed back to the way they were
not to mention that whole complaint about how "his favorite upward server is gone"
also like he listed every major update in the past two years and said they were all shit? like, sure skins were questionable at best but Gun Mettle and Tough Break were both huge rebalances to the core of the game that were much-needed and fixed a lot
A lot of misinformation in that video...
[quote=Muselk]There's also no map selection, meaning that you really don't even get to choose the type of TF2 that you play anymore[/quote]
[quote=Muselk]When I see Valve make a completely horrible patch decision for TF2, I think that they're actually gunna realize that problem and fix it. I held off on making this video because I thought that Valve, after seeing the complete outcry from the TF2 community, after seeing player numbers drop, after seeing almost every casual and competitive match plagued with unbalanced games, high ping and hackers, I thought that they might realize 'Hey, maybe some of these changes aren't for the best, let's fix it' but, as it's been for years now, they didn't do that, and, I mean, maybe a few weeks or months down the line we might see a couple of things get changed back to the way they were[/quote]
not to mention that whole complaint about how "his favorite upward server is gone"
also like he listed every major update in the past two years and said they were all shit? like, sure skins were questionable at best but Gun Mettle and Tough Break were both huge rebalances to the core of the game that were much-needed and fixed a lot
[quote=Muselk]There's also no map selection, meaning that you really don't even get to choose the type of TF2 that you play anymore[/quote]
[quote=Muselk]When I see Valve make a completely horrible patch decision for TF2, I think that they're actually gunna realize that problem and fix it. I held off on making this video because I thought that Valve, after seeing the complete outcry from the TF2 community, after seeing player numbers drop, after seeing almost every casual and competitive match plagued with unbalanced games, high ping and hackers, I thought that they might realize 'Hey, maybe some of these changes aren't for the best, let's fix it' but, as it's been for years now, they didn't do that, and, I mean, maybe a few weeks or months down the line we might see a couple of things get changed back to the way they were[/quote]
not to mention that whole complaint about how "his favorite upward server is gone"
also like he listed every major update in the past two years and said they were all shit? like, sure skins were questionable at best but Gun Mettle and Tough Break were both huge rebalances to the core of the game that were much-needed and fixed a lot
MuselkAnd I mean, you gotta ask yourself, what's the cause of these problems, because bad updates, poor balancing decisions, it's not just isolated in the Meet Your Match update, this has been happening for years, and in my opinion, and the opinion of I think most people, it really comes down to communication. Outside the fact that Valve don't really seem to understand the game that they're messing with, Valve's only communication with the TF2 community seems to focus entirely on competitive players. People like b4nny, eXtine, SLIN, are, aside from the few SFM artists, the few people that have been given real personal 1 on 1 meetings with the TF2 team. Now don't get me wrong, these guys are legends of the TF2 community. I look up to a lot of them. A lot of these guys are the reason I play the game today, and they understand TF2 better than I, and 99% of TF2 players, ever will. But there's a problem. The way that they see TF2 is just not the way that the vast majority of TF2 players see the game. Right now, Valve's only real insight into the TF2 community comes from a competitive perspective, and the reality is that this is only an absolutely miniscule portion of the TF2 playerbase. Changes like removing Valve servers, buffing the phlogistinator, nerfing the Bison, and claiming that it being able to penetrate enemies was a glitch, even though it's been on the tip screen for like eight years now, these are all things that show Valve understands absolutely nothing about their game or the wants of the vast majority that play it.
you heard him right, the Bison, Phlog, and Valve server removal are all our fault because the TF2 team listens to us too much! we should back off guys.
[quote=Muselk]And I mean, you gotta ask yourself, what's the cause of these problems, because bad updates, poor balancing decisions, it's not just isolated in the Meet Your Match update, this has been happening for years, and in my opinion, and the opinion of I think most people, it really comes down to communication. Outside the fact that Valve don't really seem to understand the game that they're messing with, Valve's only communication with the TF2 community seems to focus entirely on competitive players. People like b4nny, eXtine, SLIN, are, aside from the few SFM artists, the few people that have been given real personal 1 on 1 meetings with the TF2 team. Now don't get me wrong, these guys are legends of the TF2 community. I look up to a lot of them. A lot of these guys are the reason I play the game today, and they understand TF2 better than I, and 99% of TF2 players, ever will. But there's a problem. The way that they see TF2 is just not the way that the vast majority of TF2 players see the game. Right now, Valve's only real insight into the TF2 community comes from a competitive perspective, and the reality is that this is only an absolutely miniscule portion of the TF2 playerbase. Changes like removing Valve servers, buffing the phlogistinator, nerfing the Bison, and claiming that it being able to penetrate enemies was a glitch, even though it's been on the tip screen for like eight years now, these are all things that show Valve understands absolutely nothing about their game or the wants of the vast majority that play it.[/quote]
you heard him right, the Bison, Phlog, and Valve server removal are all our fault because the TF2 team listens to us too much! we should back off guys.
you heard him right, the Bison, Phlog, and Valve server removal are all our fault because the TF2 team listens to us too much! we should back off guys.
Muselk is just speaking his mind and while I disagree I do understand that tf2 does need a "casual" aspect.
Comp is fun but what about something "relaxing? A place where you can play tf2 and not worry about being bad. Where all the new players go to learn about the game before they get smashed by people like you?
TF2 needs the casual aspect, and an actual casual aspect, not what valve calls "casual". It is one of the things that sets us apart from every other fps and brings in the majority of our playerbase.
Show Content
[code]badpunaboutmegettingbashedfortalkingpositiveaboutpubsmaybe
Muselk is just speaking his mind and while I disagree I do understand that tf2 does need a "casual" aspect.
Comp is fun but what about something "relaxing? A place where you can play tf2 and not worry about being bad. Where all the new players go to learn about the game before they get smashed by people like you?
TF2 needs the casual aspect, and an actual casual aspect, not what valve calls "casual". It is one of the things that sets us apart from every other fps and brings in the majority of our playerbase.
[spoiler][code]badpunaboutmegettingbashedfortalkingpositiveaboutpubsmaybe[/spoiler]
Comp is fun but what about something "relaxing? A place where you can play tf2 and not worry about being bad. Where all the new players go to learn about the game before they get smashed by people like you?
TF2 needs the casual aspect, and an actual casual aspect, not what valve calls "casual". It is one of the things that sets us apart from every other fps and brings in the majority of our playerbase.
[spoiler][code]badpunaboutmegettingbashedfortalkingpositiveaboutpubsmaybe[/spoiler]
clckwrkI'm not advocating the use of "dead game," but taking the term dead literally, instead of taking it for what it is, a snarky attack on the game's lack of growth for longer than you've probably watched competitive TF2, is what sparked this discussion. It really does not matter if the game has floated at the same number of players after all these years. CLEARLY, I should say, as the game hasn't benefited from it after all these years, even on a micro scale.
The difference now is that those broad numbers are all being exposed to a competitive format directly in the client supported by Valve infrastructure, including the casual mode. We might not think of it as competitive TF2 because we've been in this self made bubble for nearly a decade, but there are probably more people than ever playing a competitive format and it's the one Valve is pushing.
I expect (assuming Valve are happy with the way it works out) that what we consider to be competitive TF2 now will die off and be replaced by the Valve format in time, a format that is being directly promoted to more players every few days than have likely played a full season in any competitive league past or present, the people in those steam graphs.
If you accept the Valve format is a legitimate competitive game then this is like pugchamp, tf2pickup, tf2center, tf2lobby or any other mix site or service hosting thousands of games a day. Something none of them ever achieved. Competitive is bigger than it has ever been right now, it's just that we're now the ones outside.
[quote=clckwrk]I'm not advocating the use of "dead game," but taking the term dead literally, instead of taking it for what it is, a snarky attack on the game's lack of growth for longer than you've probably watched competitive TF2, is what sparked this discussion. It really does not matter if the game has floated at the same number of players after all these years. CLEARLY, I should say, as the game hasn't benefited from it after all these years, even on a micro scale.[/quote]
The difference now is that those broad numbers are all being exposed to a competitive format directly in the client supported by Valve infrastructure, including the casual mode. We might not think of it as competitive TF2 because we've been in this self made bubble for nearly a decade, but there are probably more people than ever playing a competitive format and it's the one Valve is pushing.
I expect (assuming Valve are happy with the way it works out) that what we consider to be competitive TF2 now will die off and be replaced by the Valve format in time, a format that is being directly promoted to more players every few days than have likely played a full season in any competitive league past or present, the people in those steam graphs.
If you accept the Valve format is a legitimate competitive game then this is like pugchamp, tf2pickup, tf2center, tf2lobby or any other mix site or service hosting thousands of games a day. Something none of them ever achieved. Competitive is bigger than it has ever been right now, it's just that we're now the ones outside.
The difference now is that those broad numbers are all being exposed to a competitive format directly in the client supported by Valve infrastructure, including the casual mode. We might not think of it as competitive TF2 because we've been in this self made bubble for nearly a decade, but there are probably more people than ever playing a competitive format and it's the one Valve is pushing.
I expect (assuming Valve are happy with the way it works out) that what we consider to be competitive TF2 now will die off and be replaced by the Valve format in time, a format that is being directly promoted to more players every few days than have likely played a full season in any competitive league past or present, the people in those steam graphs.
If you accept the Valve format is a legitimate competitive game then this is like pugchamp, tf2pickup, tf2center, tf2lobby or any other mix site or service hosting thousands of games a day. Something none of them ever achieved. Competitive is bigger than it has ever been right now, it's just that we're now the ones outside.
The only populated community server in aus. is an insta spawn upward that spams adds every few deaths. Shouldn't that be right up his alley?
The only populated community server in aus. is an insta spawn upward that spams adds every few deaths. Shouldn't that be right up his alley?
Are people still upset with Casual Matchmaking? No abandon penalty, you can choose what map/gamemode you want to play, and theres no vmod fov lock in it, I just wish I could play more than 2-3 rounds of viaduct without having to spend 1-2 minutes searching for another game. If valve reduces queue times, allows players to play more rounds at a time, and somehow deals with the hackers, casual matchmaking would be perfect for me.
Are people still upset with Casual Matchmaking? No abandon penalty, you can choose what map/gamemode you want to play, and theres no vmod fov lock in it, I just wish I could play more than 2-3 rounds of viaduct without having to spend 1-2 minutes searching for another game. If valve reduces queue times, allows players to play more rounds at a time, and somehow deals with the hackers, casual matchmaking would be perfect for me.
gatsanAre people still upset with Casual Matchmaking? No abandon penalty, you can choose what map/gamemode you want to play, and theres no vmod fov lock in it, I just wish I could play more than 2-3 rounds of viaduct without having to spend 1-2 minutes searching for another game. If valve reduces queue times, allows players to play more rounds at a time, and somehow deals with the hackers, casual matchmaking would be perfect for me.
Look, I'm glad it works for you, but it's killed pubbing past midnight in aus. The past week I haven't been able to get into a single Sydney server past 12. On Monday night I repeatedly queued from 12:15 to 1am. In this time I got into 4 matches. All Singapore. 180+ ping. I used to be able to find populated pubs until 5am Australian Eastern.
[quote=gatsan]Are people still upset with Casual Matchmaking? No abandon penalty, you can choose what map/gamemode you want to play, and theres no vmod fov lock in it, I just wish I could play more than 2-3 rounds of viaduct without having to spend 1-2 minutes searching for another game. If valve reduces queue times, allows players to play more rounds at a time, and somehow deals with the hackers, casual matchmaking would be perfect for me.[/quote]
Look, I'm glad it works for you, but it's killed pubbing past midnight in aus. The past week I haven't been able to get into a single Sydney server past 12. On Monday night I repeatedly queued from 12:15 to 1am. In this time I got into 4 matches. All Singapore. 180+ ping. I used to be able to find populated pubs until 5am Australian Eastern.
Look, I'm glad it works for you, but it's killed pubbing past midnight in aus. The past week I haven't been able to get into a single Sydney server past 12. On Monday night I repeatedly queued from 12:15 to 1am. In this time I got into 4 matches. All Singapore. 180+ ping. I used to be able to find populated pubs until 5am Australian Eastern.
KevinIsPwnFMX1All I know about how this update affected how people play the game is from forums like this and videos like Muselks. For me, this update was the worst thing that's ever happened to TF2, I literally cannot find a single server where I get <300 ping and have a framerate above like 10 fps.this update did nothing to lower fps, and if you can't find a server in the server browser with less than 300 ping, you have something wrong with your internet.
Probably, I guess I'm just being salty I haven't been able to play TF2 for 2 weeks :(
[quote=KevinIsPwn][quote=FMX1]All I know about how this update affected how people play the game is from forums like this and videos like Muselks. For me, this update was the worst thing that's ever happened to TF2, I literally cannot find a single server where I get <300 ping and have a framerate above like 10 fps.[/quote]
this update did nothing to lower fps, and if you can't find a server in the server browser with less than 300 ping, you have something wrong with your internet.[/quote]
Probably, I guess I'm just being salty I haven't been able to play TF2 for 2 weeks :(
this update did nothing to lower fps, and if you can't find a server in the server browser with less than 300 ping, you have something wrong with your internet.[/quote]
Probably, I guess I'm just being salty I haven't been able to play TF2 for 2 weeks :(
aslThe only populated community server in aus. is an insta spawn upward that spams adds every few deaths. Shouldn't that be right up his alley?
And the Muselk server.
[quote=asl]The only populated community server in aus. is an insta spawn upward that spams adds every few deaths. Shouldn't that be right up his alley?[/quote]
And the Muselk server.
And the Muselk server.
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