Lunchbox/throwable weapons rebalance idea
posted in
TF2 General Discussion
it doesn't require more skills to use them, it just rewards better players in general, this weapons aren't banned for their short "spawn time" but because they are either over powered af (crit a cola) or just potentially help out your entire team (jarate/mad milk) or an individual (all of the eatable heavy secondaries)
their design is flawed for competitive because they are so much better than the stock alternative.
it doesn't require more skills to use them, it just rewards better players in general, this weapons aren't banned for their short "spawn time" but because they are either over powered af (crit a cola) or just potentially help out your entire team (jarate/mad milk) or an individual (all of the eatable heavy secondaries)
their design is flawed for competitive because they are so much better than the stock alternative.
their design is flawed for competitive because they are so much better than the stock alternative.
azarunPPhoenix21Soldier's banners fall in your criteria too, but they are both viable and balanced.
Lets face it valve will never remove sandman from the game or make it a stock reskin. Might be better nerfing them to the point where high level players would prefer consistent stock over gimmicky unlock.
the only reason why they are balanced is because soldiers without gunboats barely survive if they are useful, there's a reason why it's only being run to push last on stalemates on certain maps, very specific, and I don't think anyone has a problem with those unlocks in hl/pubs (same thing but one being with classlimits) so nerfing them will make everyone use the same boring unlocks in every game mode.
[quote=azarun][quote=PPhoenix21] [/quote]
Soldier's banners fall in your criteria too, but they are both viable and balanced.
Lets face it valve will never remove sandman from the game or make it a stock reskin. Might be better nerfing them to the point where high level players would prefer consistent stock over gimmicky unlock.[/quote]
the only reason why they are balanced is because soldiers without gunboats barely survive if they are useful, there's a reason why it's only being run to push last on stalemates on certain maps, very specific, and I don't think anyone has a problem with those unlocks in hl/pubs (same thing but one being with classlimits) so nerfing them will make everyone use the same boring unlocks in every game mode.
Soldier's banners fall in your criteria too, but they are both viable and balanced.
Lets face it valve will never remove sandman from the game or make it a stock reskin. Might be better nerfing them to the point where high level players would prefer consistent stock over gimmicky unlock.[/quote]
the only reason why they are balanced is because soldiers without gunboats barely survive if they are useful, there's a reason why it's only being run to push last on stalemates on certain maps, very specific, and I don't think anyone has a problem with those unlocks in hl/pubs (same thing but one being with classlimits) so nerfing them will make everyone use the same boring unlocks in every game mode.
Some weapons just don't belong in competitive. These weapons are such because of their base design.
Some weapons just don't belong in competitive. These weapons are such because of their base design.
azarunPPhoenix21Soldier's banners fall in your criteria too, but they are both viable and balanced.
Lets face it valve will never remove sandman from the game or make it a stock reskin. Might be better nerfing them to the point where high level players would prefer consistent stock over gimmicky unlock.
The difference is that soldiers are giving up either reliable hitscan or 20 hp rocket jumps while everyone else is giving up some shitty secondary that they'll never use.
When you run a banner, there'll be times you miss the reliable shotgun hitscan or cheap jumps, whereas when are you EVER going to miss a shotgun on heavy, who has a primary that is so much better and never needs to reload.
The only weapon I see that might be missed is pistol, and that doesn't matter when mad milk,crit a cola, etc are so OP
[quote=azarun][quote=PPhoenix21] [/quote]
Soldier's banners fall in your criteria too, but they are both viable and balanced.
Lets face it valve will never remove sandman from the game or make it a stock reskin. Might be better nerfing them to the point where high level players would prefer consistent stock over gimmicky unlock.[/quote]
The difference is that soldiers are giving up either reliable hitscan or 20 hp rocket jumps while everyone else is giving up some shitty secondary that they'll never use.
When you run a banner, there'll be times you miss the reliable shotgun hitscan or cheap jumps, whereas when are you EVER going to miss a shotgun on heavy, who has a primary that is so much better and never needs to reload.
The only weapon I see that might be missed is pistol, and that doesn't matter when mad milk,crit a cola, etc are so OP
Soldier's banners fall in your criteria too, but they are both viable and balanced.
Lets face it valve will never remove sandman from the game or make it a stock reskin. Might be better nerfing them to the point where high level players would prefer consistent stock over gimmicky unlock.[/quote]
The difference is that soldiers are giving up either reliable hitscan or 20 hp rocket jumps while everyone else is giving up some shitty secondary that they'll never use.
When you run a banner, there'll be times you miss the reliable shotgun hitscan or cheap jumps, whereas when are you EVER going to miss a shotgun on heavy, who has a primary that is so much better and never needs to reload.
The only weapon I see that might be missed is pistol, and that doesn't matter when mad milk,crit a cola, etc are so OP
It'd make sense for some, not for others. Like the defensive banner. In what situation do you change to it as you defend the last point, and actually get it off? It'd benefit from recharging automatically + damage taken, but make it so that you'd need to hold for at least 90 seconds for it to charge or so.
Cleaver and milk replace an important weapon, neither would really benefit from charging automatically. Realistically sandman + cleaver is an assassination combo. You shouldn't need to charge up that combo.
It'd make sense for some, not for others. Like the defensive banner. In what situation do you change to it as you defend the last point, and actually get it off? It'd benefit from recharging automatically + damage taken, but make it so that you'd need to hold for at least 90 seconds for it to charge or so.
Cleaver and milk replace an important weapon, neither would really benefit from charging automatically. Realistically sandman + cleaver is an assassination combo. You shouldn't need to charge up that combo.
Cleaver and milk replace an important weapon, neither would really benefit from charging automatically. Realistically sandman + cleaver is an assassination combo. You shouldn't need to charge up that combo.
I already put this in another thread, so I'll just repost what I had already suggested
Koncept
- Change lunchbox items (any consumable/drinkable item) to only be used once. The item can then only be restored by touching a resupply cabinet, similar to how the razorback works. Will work similarly with sandman and wrap assassin given that the player does not retrieve their ball. Also applies to jarate, mad milk, and cleaver
This won't make the items immediately good for league play, but it will surely be a step from where it is today, as some items are incredibly dumb and probably shouldn't have been added in terms of competitive play. But knowing that before valve was balancing the game towards pubs, silly unlocks like these were actually acceptable.
I also personally believe that weapon rebalancing should be done in coordination with the competitive community, as having things like the sandman in its current form cost a team a win on LAN need to be rebalanced so it's actually an all around fair weapon. How and if it will be achieved: I may never know. But those are just my thoughts.
I already put this in another thread, so I'll just repost what I had already suggested
[quote=Koncept]
[list]
[*] Change lunchbox items (any consumable/drinkable item) to only be used once. The item can then only be restored by touching a resupply cabinet, similar to how the razorback works. Will work similarly with sandman and wrap assassin given that the player does not retrieve their ball. Also applies to jarate, mad milk, and cleaver [/quote]
This won't make the items immediately good for league play, but it will surely be a step from where it is today, as some items are incredibly dumb and probably shouldn't have been added in terms of competitive play. But knowing that before valve was balancing the game towards pubs, silly unlocks like these were actually acceptable.
I also personally believe that weapon rebalancing should be done in coordination with the competitive community, as having things like the sandman in its current form cost a team a win on LAN need to be rebalanced so it's actually an all around fair weapon. How and if it will be achieved: I may never know. But those are just my thoughts.
[quote=Koncept]
[list]
[*] Change lunchbox items (any consumable/drinkable item) to only be used once. The item can then only be restored by touching a resupply cabinet, similar to how the razorback works. Will work similarly with sandman and wrap assassin given that the player does not retrieve their ball. Also applies to jarate, mad milk, and cleaver [/quote]
This won't make the items immediately good for league play, but it will surely be a step from where it is today, as some items are incredibly dumb and probably shouldn't have been added in terms of competitive play. But knowing that before valve was balancing the game towards pubs, silly unlocks like these were actually acceptable.
I also personally believe that weapon rebalancing should be done in coordination with the competitive community, as having things like the sandman in its current form cost a team a win on LAN need to be rebalanced so it's actually an all around fair weapon. How and if it will be achieved: I may never know. But those are just my thoughts.
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