Ideally everyone would be having fun. While being able to fly away like mary poppins is enjoyable for the medic, it really sucks for anyone who outplayed the medic position wise. They smartly caught the medic out, but the medic isn't penalized.

This is different from say, getting out-DM'd. Once I missed an easy follow up rocket, and then two shotgun shots. I wasn't mad though, I didn't say "wow what stupid bullshit". I knew that if I aimed better and wasn't as sloppy, I would get more kills, which is fun. Dying because I got out-DM'd made me want to play the game more and do better.

unban quickfix and solemn vow and ban medic. everybody wins

Everything slin posts now gets downfragged to hell
The upfrag/downfrag button shouldn't be for agreeing/disagreeing with someone, it should be for upfragging quality, well-thought posts and downfragging factually incorrect, pointless posts
Don't just downfrag someone just because you disagree with him on an opinion

That's not even the same thing what so ever because Demos and Soldiers can build.

What other weapons force the other team to run them?

wtf are these unbans LOL

looks like it's not just valve that are retarded when it comes to weapon balance

if i still played tf2 i would be incredibly mad at you mongos who clearly don't have a fucking clue about the game deciding on these changes

Unbanning the quick fix, solemn vow and soda popper is just literally retarded there is no other way to describe it.

Pomson's a shitty concept that we shouldn't be supporting and dalokohs is just a baby sandvich. If the sandvich is a dumb enough concept to be banned, the dalokohs should be as well because it's literally the same thing. It even heals more over time than the sandvich, 3 small health kits over 30 seconds = 93 health for a medic as opposed to 1 medium healthkit in that time which heals 75.

tl;dr fuck b4nny and slin

I don't understand why people think unbanning weapons makes the game more fun.

this isn't reddit, +frags and -frags ARE literally if you like or dislike something, and that's fine because posts aren't sorted by score

also why are people mad at slin im confused

also there is literally zero reason to run dalokohs bar. if you're running combo heavy you wanna throw big sandviches to medics. if you're running flank heavy (haha) you want the 300 hp heal. (why isn't anyone talking about banning the thing that drops medium health kits to medics for free? that's kinda bullshit)

also the pomson is fine, the range where it drains over 2% is short and it can be bodyblocked, if you are running into meds to pomson them you should just run shotgun or gunslinger critpunch them or just play scout/soldier

Just a suggestion - especially in regards to the quickfix.

The season quickfix was unbanned was also the season of the IM anti-quickfix mafia. Essentially, my team, and several other teams (the majority of the division) had a gentlemen's agreement not to ever run the quickfix. If you did you would never be scrimmed again by any team participating - blacklisted essentially.

It was 100% effective - our championship + playoffs in that season of IM also featured the only playoff tf2 that didn't have any quickfix, that is to say, it was the only TF2 being played.

What a season.

So, even if the incredibly regrettable decision is made to legalize the quickfix, just remember, you've got options lol.

Our best available option is to just test it for like 2 days just to be sure it's still cancer and do "The Atomizer" afterwards.

No.
Just no.

I swear if this shit doesn't get reverted i'm going to play Overcuck.
I refuse to play a repeat of fucking season 14.

For those to young or who have forgotten...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OalWDhYfdeg

http://imgur.com/a/YJDt0

Which is sad since literally the best available option should be to not even be considering a discussion around unbanning it. It's an absolutely horrendous decision that I find mind boggling.

Add in the fact that last year we banned the atomizer because triple jump on scout is OP, so this season we say 5 jumps is OK and a higher DPS potential than default scattergun is also welcomed for the same weapon?

This is an absolute travesty and the people involved seriously need to step back and look at what they just agreed on.

You know I was thinking of not playing next season, now that I see these unbans I'm 100% sure I'm not going to play lol

Wow as a new player unbanning these 2 weapons suddenly makes me want to start playing competitive! :))

Ok guys I got it.

Hold another meeting next week.

Anyone that was involved last night that agreed to the sodapopper and quickfix being allowed shouldn't be invited as they don't know what they are on about.

I was already so hyped to play against vaccinator last season, I really can't wait for teams to use quickfix!

Can we just get a blacklist with some essential unlocks (gunboats, escape plan, ubersaw, xbow, boston basher, winger, paintrain)
6s was actually fun when it didn't have all the retarded weapons.
Thanks

Wouldn't it also be easier for newer players as well if they knew there was only about 10 okay unlocks to play with, instead of over 50 unlocks to choose from(I don't know the amount) which are either useless 90% of the time or frustrating/annoying to play against.

I don't get the point of unbanning the shitty/bad but frustrating to play against unlocks in the first place, when the only thing it ever does is confuse newer players who don't exactly understand what weapons are bad and shouldn't be used and give the option for players to troll/mess around in scrims/pugs.

bye bye to the medic's uber

90% of people who hate the new proposed unbans don't realise that you can re-ban them after testing them properly, and only oppose them because it is a form of change.

But of some reason people have no interest in banning insanely overpowered weapons like the crusaders crossbow, ubersaw, escape plan. I wonder why.

ubersaw is balanced (and won't be run now that the solemn vow is allowed)
crossbow increases the medic skillcap
escape plan increases the speed of the game

not every 'overpowered' weapon is bad, if it makes for fun gameplay and is better than the alternatives in the slot then it should become the new standard and every other unlock should be balanced around that.

Just because they are the best weapon in slot, it doesn't mean they are overpowered compared to the game as a whole (assuming that is the logic you are using to determine which weapons are overpowered). You wouldn't say the boston basher is overpowered, would you? Despite it having 100% equip rate.

Take the ubersaw for example, people would just use the amputator if the ubersaw was banned (assuming solemn vow isnt unbanned). So the question becomes, would you rather play with ubersaw or amputator? If you ban the ubersaw, the amputator will be used 100% of the time. If you don't, the ubersaw will be used 100% of the time. Ultimately, it's up to preference which weapon people want to play with.

Note: Why don't more medics run the amputator? You get +3 hp regeneration and rarely get an ubersaw anyway, seems like it could be viable or better than the ubersaw (depending on which skill bracket you play in).

And weapons like the atomizer don't increase the skill cap? Get the fuck out of here

EDIT: after a long discussion with carn (popcarn) i conceded this point.

saving your own life in dire situations due to a single unlock is balanced, getting 25% uber advantage due to getting a kill you would have gotten anyway is balanced

Maybe when jumping to mid, but in any other scenario it slows the game down due to people getting out of situations that would normally kill them.

I'm all for getting rid of the crossbow - being able to fire 40 arrows in a minute and provide huge amounts of healing completely obviates important game mechanics - like kritz heals. If its firing rate was reduced I'd be all for it however, since it would actually be a sacrifice.

Uber-saw is balanced because the number of times you're actually going to be able to save your own life with it are pretty slim, and you have to incur a tremendous amount of risk to wack somebody most times. Trekkie the bonesaw legend often made an example of other medics who tried to swing with him.

Escape plan *used* to be pretty busted but now with the mini-crits it doesn't actually allow you to escape all that often lol. The bigger issue is the crossbow because you can use it to step behind cover quickly and pull it back to receive an arrow - whereas otherwise you'd still be pretty hooped with no health hiding behind map geometry.

No slin, players on both sides of the pond did not agree to this. No players from se7en were present at this meeting, Drackk was the only one available last night, once he saw the posts on tf.tv he joined Discord to tell you that no players from se7en agrees with these changes so close to LAN.

Unbanning items and also banning items for LAN goes two ways, allowing loads of new unlocks now is stupid because it won't give teams enough time to practice, but banning items also changes the way teams have been practising for over a season now. There is 0 consistency in anything you guys do. Don't get me wrong, I don't think the Rescue Ranger or Jarate are good unlocks for the game, but nothing should be changed so close to the LAN.

crossbow makes playing medic so much more fun because it actually gives you something to aim as opposed to holding down m1. if the crossbow were banned i feel like it would slow down the game to an extent because you would have to spend time tanking your soldiers to full hp as opposed to quickly arrowing them and being able to push with scouts. the passive reload may be considered overpowered but the item certainly makes medic a lot more enjoyable to play and gives you something that actually takes skill to do.

It eliminates options and decisions because its power leverl is so much higher than anything else.

In the current state of competitive where scout is the strongest class and all soldiers can't build ubers (due to gunboats) it is contextually overpowered. In a vacuum, no, it's not.

Source ?

And? that's amputator isn't nearly as powerful when compared to to the bonesaw as the ubersaw is compared to the amputator.

Or we try and get it nerfed.

Because even though it's more consistent, it's not gamechanging like the ubersaw. A lucky ubersaw hit on a player who fell victim of the games hitreg can turn the tides of games, health regeneration, probably not.

Why on earth would you create a whitelist that will be used for only one week? Regardless of how good or bad it is, it's just a bizarre and needless complication. Seems like a harebrained b4n man scheme to me... free Slin.

Also why would you have a meeting of this import with only three days notice - on a Saturday evening for Europeans - and then proceed as if there was proportional representation after like one European of note showed up?

you guys don't understand valve are going over our logs and watching all our games carefully.

I mean look at all the great things that has come from us using the improved whitelist last season:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.

If that doesn't convince you that this is not just a step, but a gigantic leap forward for competitive tf2 than I don't know what will.

I was just using the ubersaw-amputator as an example, not as a serious point. We've been trying to get sandman, dds etc. nerfed for ages and nothing changed so I don't know why that would change now.

You aren't really removing options by keeping these weapons banned/unbanned, you're just choosing a different option (crossbow 100% equip rate or overdose 100% equip rate?).