I dunno why the skill level is a big deal to people - NA teams didn't want to go, so we won't see the best from NA, simple as that.
Either way, comparing generations is stupid, it's like saying the UEFA European Championship is 2020 is worthless because the 2012 tournament had the best team ever Spain play. Eras are irrelevant and in the past, tournaments are for the present players.
I dunno why the skill level is a big deal to people - NA teams didn't want to go, so we won't see the best from NA, simple as that.
Either way, comparing generations is stupid, it's like saying the UEFA European Championship is 2020 is worthless because the 2012 tournament had the best team ever Spain play. Eras are irrelevant and in the past, tournaments are for the present players.
smziMissing froyo is a downer but lets be real the rest of the teams is at the same skilllevel as at previous lans
that's just not even true though. pretty much every top 4 team for the past few years at i series is respectively better than the ones at i61, meaning each 1st place team is better than this 1st place team, each 2nd place team is better than this 2nd place team. the only exception from memory is that crowns from i58 and 7 this time are pretty similar
i'm not trying to shittalk i61, but people disagreeing with true posts need a reality check about the competition in tf2
[quote=smzi]Missing froyo is a downer but lets be real the rest of the teams is at the same skilllevel as at previous lans[/quote]
that's just not even true though. pretty much every top 4 team for the past few years at i series is respectively better than the ones at i61, meaning each 1st place team is better than this 1st place team, each 2nd place team is better than this 2nd place team. the only exception from memory is that crowns from i58 and 7 this time are pretty similar
i'm not trying to shittalk i61, but people disagreeing with true posts need a reality check about the competition in tf2
Without weighing in on the skill level of TF2 how can it be a "true post" when it involves theorycrafting on whether or not X team in 2017 is better than Y team from 2015.
Without weighing in on the skill level of TF2 how can it be a "true post" when it involves theorycrafting on whether or not X team in 2017 is better than Y team from 2015.
corsa
there's no way you can say that for sure though since there is no way to directly prove that present teams are worse than past teams.
[quote=corsa][/quote]
there's no way you can say that for sure though since there is no way to directly prove that present teams are worse than past teams.
corsasmziMissing froyo is a downer but lets be real the rest of the teams is at the same skilllevel as at previous lans
that's just not even true though. pretty much every top 4 team for the past few years at i series is respectively better than the ones at i61, meaning each 1st place team is better than this 1st place team, each 2nd place team is better than this 2nd place team. the only exception from memory is that crowns from i58 and 7 this time are pretty similar
i'm not trying to shittalk i61, but people disagreeing with true posts need a reality check about the competition in tf2
not trying to shittalk but the only player/ team that you can rate out of all the previous/current lan teams is b4nny / froyo since you havent played vs the others
[quote=corsa][quote=smzi]Missing froyo is a downer but lets be real the rest of the teams is at the same skilllevel as at previous lans[/quote]
that's just not even true though. pretty much every top 4 team for the past few years at i series is respectively better than the ones at i61, meaning each 1st place team is better than this 1st place team, each 2nd place team is better than this 2nd place team. the only exception from memory is that crowns from i58 and 7 this time are pretty similar
i'm not trying to shittalk i61, but people disagreeing with true posts need a reality check about the competition in tf2[/quote]
not trying to shittalk but the only player/ team that you can rate out of all the previous/current lan teams is b4nny / froyo since you havent played vs the others
smzicorsasmziMissing froyo is a downer but lets be real the rest of the teams is at the same skilllevel as at previous lans
that's just not even true though. pretty much every top 4 team for the past few years at i series is respectively better than the ones at i61, meaning each 1st place team is better than this 1st place team, each 2nd place team is better than this 2nd place team. the only exception from memory is that crowns from i58 and 7 this time are pretty similar
i'm not trying to shittalk i61, but people disagreeing with true posts need a reality check about the competition in tf2
not trying to shittalk but the only player/ team that you can rate out of all the previous/current lan teams is b4nny / froyo since you havent played vs the others
my judgment is from actually watching matches outside of NA. if you watch these matches and think the quality of play is the same, you have terrible understanding of high level tf2, or you're just delusional.
on top of that, literally every top NA and EU player (that's actually good) agrees that it's not the same. also, i've played against the vast majority of those teams in matches, at LAN, and also a few scrims in the past. i haven't played against (but still watched) the current mid level EU teams but it's clear they're worse than 7, while 7 would agree they're currently worse than a lot of those i series teams in the past.
e: i'm not saying you specifically are bad or delusional, but you're making yourself sound that way considering every single top player i've ever talked to agrees from personal experience.
[quote=smzi][quote=corsa][quote=smzi]Missing froyo is a downer but lets be real the rest of the teams is at the same skilllevel as at previous lans[/quote]
that's just not even true though. pretty much every top 4 team for the past few years at i series is respectively better than the ones at i61, meaning each 1st place team is better than this 1st place team, each 2nd place team is better than this 2nd place team. the only exception from memory is that crowns from i58 and 7 this time are pretty similar
i'm not trying to shittalk i61, but people disagreeing with true posts need a reality check about the competition in tf2[/quote]
not trying to shittalk but the only player/ team that you can rate out of all the previous/current lan teams is b4nny / froyo since you havent played vs the others[/quote]
my judgment is from actually watching matches outside of NA. if you watch these matches and think the quality of play is the same, you have terrible understanding of high level tf2, or you're just delusional.
on top of that, literally every top NA and EU player (that's actually good) agrees that it's not the same. also, i've played against the vast majority of those teams in matches, at LAN, and also a few scrims in the past. i haven't played against (but still watched) the current mid level EU teams but it's clear they're worse than 7, while 7 would agree they're currently worse than a lot of those i series teams in the past.
e: i'm not saying you specifically are bad or delusional, but you're making yourself sound that way considering every single top player i've ever talked to agrees from personal experience.
has any1 contacted valve about putting up an i61 news post yet?
has any1 contacted valve about putting up an i61 news post yet?
All_Over_RShas any1 contacted valve about putting up an i61 news post yet?
Yes
[quote=All_Over_RS]has any1 contacted valve about putting up an i61 news post yet?[/quote]
Yes
corsasmziMissing froyo is a downer but lets be real the rest of the teams is at the same skilllevel as at previous lans
that's just not even true though. pretty much every top 4 team for the past few years at i series is respectively better than the ones at i61, meaning each 1st place team is better than this 1st place team, each 2nd place team is better than this 2nd place team. the only exception from memory is that crowns from i58 and 7 this time are pretty similar
i'm not trying to shittalk i61, but people disagreeing with true posts need a reality check about the competition in tf2
Crowns won i58, 7 came 2nd in Prem this season. By this logic you just proved your argument is wrong.
[quote=corsa][quote=smzi]Missing froyo is a downer but lets be real the rest of the teams is at the same skilllevel as at previous lans[/quote]
that's just not even true though. pretty much every top 4 team for the past few years at i series is respectively better than the ones at i61, meaning each 1st place team is better than this 1st place team, each 2nd place team is better than this 2nd place team. the [b]only exception from memory is that crowns from i58[/b] and [b]7 this time are pretty similar
[/b]
i'm not trying to shittalk i61, but people disagreeing with true posts need a reality check about the competition in tf2[/quote]
Crowns won i58, 7 came 2nd in Prem this season. By this logic you just proved your argument is wrong.
HildrethcorsasmziMissing froyo is a downer but lets be real the rest of the teams is at the same skilllevel as at previous lans
that's just not even true though. pretty much every top 4 team for the past few years at i series is respectively better than the ones at i61, meaning each 1st place team is better than this 1st place team, each 2nd place team is better than this 2nd place team. the only exception from memory is that crowns from i58 and 7 this time are pretty similar
i'm not trying to shittalk i61, but people disagreeing with true posts need a reality check about the competition in tf2
Crowns won i58, 7 came 2nd in Prem this season. By this logic you just proved your argument is wrong.
lol half your posts on this forum are you trying to find holes in people's half-ass written arguments. that actually implies that 7 was in fact worse than i58 crowns. they replaced their arguably best player with somebody who despite being good, 1) doesn't main scout 2) was playing on 60hz. nevertheless, that is meaningless as that is not their roster for i61. even though they are performing better now, every single one of them would agree that they are playing worse than i58 crowns rn. hence, the notion that "they're pretty similar so i can see your point, but even still, every i-series top 4 was respectively better." not a single player at the very top of the game would disagree
[quote=Hildreth][quote=corsa][quote=smzi]Missing froyo is a downer but lets be real the rest of the teams is at the same skilllevel as at previous lans[/quote]
that's just not even true though. pretty much every top 4 team for the past few years at i series is respectively better than the ones at i61, meaning each 1st place team is better than this 1st place team, each 2nd place team is better than this 2nd place team. the [b]only exception from memory is that crowns from i58[/b] and [b]7 this time are pretty similar
[/b]
i'm not trying to shittalk i61, but people disagreeing with true posts need a reality check about the competition in tf2[/quote]
Crowns won i58, 7 came 2nd in Prem this season. By this logic you just proved your argument is wrong.[/quote]
lol half your posts on this forum are you trying to find holes in people's half-ass written arguments. that actually implies that 7 was in fact worse than i58 crowns. they replaced their arguably best player with somebody who despite being good, 1) doesn't main scout 2) was playing on 60hz. nevertheless, that is meaningless as that is not their roster for i61. even though they are performing better now, every single one of them would agree that they are playing worse than i58 crowns rn. hence, the notion that "they're pretty similar so i can see your point, but even still, every i-series top 4 was respectively better." not a single player at the very top of the game would disagree
corsaevery single one of them would agree that they are playing worse than i58 crowns.
Can a member of Se7en confirm or refute this claim?
[quote=corsa]every single one of them would agree that they are playing worse than i58 crowns.[/quote]
Can a member of Se7en confirm or refute this claim?
ymRaisincorsaevery single one of them would agree that they are playing worse than i58 crowns.
Can a member of Se7en confirm this?
i58 crowns was playing 7v6, i61 7 is playing 6v6
believe it or not its pretty useful to have a coach to constantly micro people and maincall while your team is free to focus on dm
[quote=ymRaisin][quote=corsa]every single one of them would agree that they are playing worse than i58 crowns.[/quote]
Can a member of Se7en confirm this?[/quote]
i58 crowns was playing 7v6, i61 7 is playing 6v6
believe it or not its pretty useful to have a coach to constantly micro people and maincall while your team is free to focus on dm
corsa!
my judgment is from actually watching matches outside of NA. if you watch these matches and think the quality of play is the same, you have terrible understanding of high level tf2, or you're just delusional
e: i'm not saying you specifically are bad or delusional, but you're making yourself sound that way considering every single top player i've ever talked to agrees from personal experience.
No idea why i feel obliged to further comment on this but i just cant agree with you on this one (no hate). I defo agree that the playstyle has changed dramatically over the years , shifting from a balls out aggressive to a ridiculously cautious and slow paced meta (eu) but that doesnt mean that the general skilllevel has dropped. Maybe its a question of defining 'skilllevel' but from actually having played vs all of these teams at a couple of lans and numerous seasons in prem i can happily say that the mechanical skill of the active players defo has increased. Defining skilllevel by comparing teams from different eras does not really make sense to me either and ill try to justify that aswell. From my experience Europe always did nt have more than 2-3 top teams usually one being untouchable and a close 2nd/3rd. So there really is not any decrease on that front either.
Comparing top teams from different eras also does not really make sense to me. First of all the playerpool is so small that its usuall the same reappearing faces on different teams e.g starkie (reason,nerdrage,crowns,se7en - 4 iseries 4 different top teams) and second of all as I mentioned before the meta has changed too much to draw any conclusions from former results. ( Csgo analogy fnatic in 2015 vs fnatic in 2017 - still a sick team others just got better as the meta shifted feom a dm heavy to a more strat reliant one)
Just my 2 cents , sorry for englando just europeen etc
[quote=corsa]!
my judgment is from actually watching matches outside of NA. if you watch these matches and think the quality of play is the same, you have terrible understanding of high level tf2, or you're just delusional
e: i'm not saying you specifically are bad or delusional, but you're making yourself sound that way considering every single top player i've ever talked to agrees from personal experience.[/quote]
No idea why i feel obliged to further comment on this but i just cant agree with you on this one (no hate). I defo agree that the playstyle has changed dramatically over the years , shifting from a balls out aggressive to a ridiculously cautious and slow paced meta (eu) but that doesnt mean that the general skilllevel has dropped. Maybe its a question of defining 'skilllevel' but from actually having played vs all of these teams at a couple of lans and numerous seasons in prem i can happily say that the mechanical skill of the active players defo has increased. Defining skilllevel by comparing teams from different eras does not really make sense to me either and ill try to justify that aswell. From my experience Europe always did nt have more than 2-3 top teams usually one being untouchable and a close 2nd/3rd. So there really is not any decrease on that front either.
Comparing top teams from different eras also does not really make sense to me. First of all the playerpool is so small that its usuall the same reappearing faces on different teams e.g starkie (reason,nerdrage,crowns,se7en - 4 iseries 4 different top teams) and second of all as I mentioned before the meta has changed too much to draw any conclusions from former results. ( Csgo analogy fnatic in 2015 vs fnatic in 2017 - still a sick team others just got better as the meta shifted feom a dm heavy to a more strat reliant one)
Just my 2 cents , sorry for englando just europeen etc