It was my understanding that we have 2 soldiers because they're basically two different classes with completely different roles because of one unlock.

banana +attack2

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2016-03/29/9/enhanced/webdr03/anigif_original-18843-1459259634-11.gif

6's has always had 2 soldiers since it's existed; the gunboats just allowed one of the soldiers to become more independent.

unless banana is somehow the most busted shit on the planet and/or pyro can somehow tank everything by accident with one of their changes, this isn't as big of a potential problem as you'd assume. the reason QF fucked up was because a pocketed heavy could tank anything bar a 100% charged sniper headshot, the worst i can see here is the gasoline one screwing up some chokepoint-heavy maps

point being, though, if people test it before whitelisting, they should be intentionally trying to use it in the most obnoxiously toxic ways possible like that QF heavy situation, and if it's still fine after a lot of testing, it should be allowed at least before playoffs. if anything, i'm more worried about the rest of pyro's changelist tomorrow since they only mentioned fixes and stock flamethrower buffs

I've talked to tri about this but IMO the best thing to do after all the balance changes are released will be to talk to the invite teams about bans (I advised against an invite VoIP meeting because it's comical how much the loudest voice gets the most influence). I think brand new weapons have too much potential impact to be unbanned in general, but items that get balanced but have been in the game for a long time should be simpler to judge.

Zero. 6v6 is the standard for class based shooters for a reason.

there's no standard lol, TFC was 7v7 when people played that, and 6v6 just happened to be what people liked in TF2 after experimenting with it. the only reason it could seem like there's a pattern is mostly just because overwatch lifted a lot of surface concepts straight from TF2

6 is a good number of teammates for this game, though. mixed in with the class limits 6s has, it fills all the cool roles nicely without getting into a situation where one of those roles means significantly more than the others

wait, i thought TFC was played 8v8? 4 Offense + 4 Defense CTF?

looking up old TFC info is a super huge pain, i always saw a lot of different formats and never really knew if one was more or less popular. double-checking though, you're definitely right on that and i made the mistake of thinking a weird UGC format was the standard, my bad

maybe you should learn wtf you are talking about before saying things then eh? makes sense to me

Netquake TF and Original QWTF (90's) were played 9v9 -- most teams ran 5 Def / 4 Off but switched to 5 Off depending on the match situation

Many years later, 8v8 became the standard for QWTF. TFC was also played 8v8 and was standard 4 Off vs 4 Def
The 8v8 trend continued into Quake 3 Fortress and into Enemy Territory Fortress.
TF2's 6v6 format is simply because we don't play CTF anymore and the TF2 classes are not even close to how the originals were designed.

whatever, it doesn't matter if it's the standard for the entire genre or not, tf2's been played in the 6v6 format for close to 9 years at this point, a random unlock isn't going to change that. Nor will a random engineer main who likes playing aids classes and wasting money, for that matter.

the fact that it was every format under the sun except for 6v6 just proves what i was actually trying to say, but ok

I doubt that these unlocks will affect anything. Maybe make Pyro slightly more useful @ fragin during last holds but i don't think we'll be seeing Pyros replacing any of the generalist positions any time soon.

jetpack's viability is probably gonna be completely contingent on the new flamethrower, seems pretty ass with anything else (unless it gives u like mach speed shit all the time idk)

yeah he still has no range, i mean he's still a Pyro with a flamethrower; even with the Dragon's Fury, it will not gonna shoot further than normal range (or else it'd be a spamming nightmare)
and flying around only make it easier to get shot down by Scouts

pretty much the 2 weapons that we think would make the Pyro a generalist

"Spamming nightmare" i mean we already have the soldier rockets launcher and the grenade launcher. I dont think it would be that much worse considering it is a one shot flame thrower.

And i dont think it will be any easier for scouts to shoot pyros flying then they are walking. Plus theirs much more benefits for the pyro with the jet pack then downside such as mobility which pretty much increases it's range since you can chase down enemy's which are running away and then run back .

My theory on how the dragons fury is going to work is Zarya like fireballs and 25 ammo per shot, thats 8 shot for full ammo with the reduced reload and bonus damage for every consecutive shots it looks like a pretty good offensive and spam weapon if you combine that with the ability to run away or chase (jetpack) its starting to look like a solid flank class, flank hold.

If you are still able to airblast its gonna counter any roamer and you will need scout to dodge all his shots to get close to him and be able to kill him. I think pyro has good roamer potential now if my theory is true...

the gas blaster (or whatever the name was) actually seems pretty useful. it's essentially a smoke grenade that damages players. would be pretty good for locking down a choke (especially on maps where there are many flanks to watch)

when the elo update is in place i encourage everyone to try and play it maybe it will be a good skill level and we can test valve tf2, while leagues remain community version tf2

Its a fun idea, but I don't think the Gas Passer can have much use in 6's. It takes 60 seconds for this thing to charge up, so its not like someone can switch to pyro on a last hold and use this item right away.

If anything, they would need to go pyro after losing MID and then the charge will be ready to defend last. Compare that to having a lvl 2/3 gun that is incredibly more useful than "locking down" a choke in a gas cloud for a few seconds.

Fun item to be used in pubs, that's all.

you won't get 60 seconds to charge it if you switch to it after dying on mid before they walk in with uber ad

you switch to it during stalemates with spawn advantage, so you have the leisure of waiting for it to charge

nerf fury fire speed and damage slightly
remove switch speed debuff on jet pack
make regular flamethrower less damage and harder to hit