yeah but how does that result in me getting hit from behind there?

particles slide off the wall, get stuck on the corner, floating there
you run backward, touch them floating flame and die
(remember there's glitch that make a single particle deals multiple damage)

lol looks like we have a new flamethrower strategy

i guess you didnt see dark necrids vid where he runs in a straight line at ppl in a difficult area to push, flailing around in circles and gets like 8 ppl killed for it. kind of reminds me of that carpet phlog vid, but obv not as powerful. but that got a buff too right? so imagine this https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PZhVFBMd260 @ 2:45, today. he'd probably kill the soldier and medics behind too i guess but i guess thats just balanced and skillful etc. those heavies, 3 of them, were all out of position and shit and got outplayed. that same design got buffed

or the jediflamaster vid where hes killing the scout by flailing at the same speed a 3 shot would. the scout never fires a fourth shot. ofc hes playing the matchup wrong by running forward into it and not pussying away, which he could do for 4 shots, take no damage and then move in for a 2 shot if the pyro didnt die to the 4, which is boring for both, just the same boring approach to the same boring fight, but ofc scout v pyro mge is stupid anyway.

idk why youre talking shit about 'flex' like it wasn't already common knowledge that the new pyro doesnt do anything new tor 6s, apart from maybe that cherry picked swelan clip. im sure were all talking about casual which is the only thing this shit pertains to anyway and i guess HL but idk about tha shit

if we assume the pyro isnt some guy who just installed the game, and was one of those pyro mains with da MLP avatar and unusual circling hearts hat, u kno the type, if youre in their range, theyre gonna hit you. jediflamasters gonna hit u every time... we'll community fund u to come to europe to feel his flames... so now u got 2 options. 1. actually 3 shot him, but live with 20 Hp or less and die to after burn while he just spawned or 2. pussy away and while youre doing that be vulnerable to the other 11 ppl who will now shoot you in the back

so thats why the range is a retarded way to balance. idk why the mongos keep saying that range shit like thats a proper effective way to balance any wep. or like how i usually die to it where im fighting 3 ppl in front, taking no damage cause theyre pubbers and then get ran over by 1 from behind who insta kills me

the last time i played tf2, the guy top scoring by far on harvest was doing phlog and jet pack, jetpacks to the point and just phlogs it cause its like a small house where nothing can touch it. ofc i didnt die to it, but all my mongo team did and if i were to stop it id have to do 30 damage shots at range while the other ppl on his team were shooting my back.

no ones said it was OP, but isnt that just a stupid way to die?

but overall, theyre not gonna change this shit anyway. the update was too hyped and the initial reaction was so mixed cause a lot of people just want to be happy about it cause they had high hopes, when really this update was garbage. it was probably the most well received update ever, in which it was mixed, so i guess valve feel pretty good about making the game stupider on multiple levels now. its not rly something to care about though cause it doesnt effect it THAT much but its still facking stupid

i think people cant deal with the fact that pyro can do something now

dude I'm a fuckin pyro main and I'm sitting here complaining with you guys because while I liked the general ideas that valve put forward with the update* all their good work is being ruined by a flamethrower whose balance of skill vs effectiveness is completely fucked. The gibus mouse 1 user who installed 5 minutes ago is just as dangerous as the best pyro in the game.

*dragon's fury is super fun, jetpack actually feels balanced for what it is and flame consistency is a big plus. I also think airblast is okay because most of these pyros are just pushing you into safety now and it takes skill to combo although it should probably be a bit weaker in push force

pyro can do his full primary damage output (which is enough to kill/put into scout clean up range most of the classes or force a Medic instantly) with 0 aim required and in fact is rewarded for doing so with full damage cleaves on any number of people in his 360 degree radius for almost no ammo. it isn't even hard to close distance with a conch and/or det jump with buff/uber to pull this off fairly reliable and just decimate a group.

i'm excited to hear your thoughts about how it's great that a pyro being played by a 2000 hour pyro main and a guy literally having a stroke and aneurysm at the same time while using 500 mouse sensitivity and moving his mouse with his face have no real difference in their ability to use Pyro's primary weapon's damage output.

no one minds if pyro can do something, they (including like most of the pyro mains I know) mind that there's a non-existent skill index to it and it's just dumb that the optimal strategy when you're against multiple enemies is to move your mouse around like you're having a seizure and doing full damage to all of them regardless.

This^

Also this^

Oh and the new airblast make me feel as if I'm being pushed along on ice.

https://i.imgur.com/gjhI7OJ.png

pyro was formerly one of the highest skill ceiling classes in the game

now my grandma dying of lung cancer could install the game and get the same flamethrower DPS as satan, imagine if you could have perfect accuracy as scout or soldier or demo with the pyro panic button script

the problem isn't that pyro is too strong, the problem is it takes zero skill in a DM-based game

it's fucking obnoxious when pyros who were literally irrelevant before the update walk into our entire team and kill 4 people / 1v1 revved heavies / detonator jump into our Medic and kill 2 people by flailing

https://i.imgur.com/ern1fIz.png

I think that if they fix the flame hitboxes so you actually have to hit all your hitboxes not just 1 of them to get the maximum dps, it would be fine. I wouldn't mind dying that quickly if I actually got tracked perfectly.

i just wanna be able to see when a pyro leftclicks but apparently im in fuckin mordor tryign to destroy the ring every time somebody uses their flames

I wouldn't mind the Pyro doing this much damage if it actually took some skill to do. This is just retarded.

imgur.com/g8Q0wHY

unfortunately valve has a different perspective on the game that we have. we want what's best for the core mechanics of the game, they want what's best for the mass casual playerbase which in turn is best for their profits $$$

pyro needs a movement speed nerf, there's no reason it needs to be one of the fastest classes in the game anymore. its overwhelming how powerful pyro is in pubs now lol. before they buffed pyro it never even went through my mind once that pyro was ever underpowered.

jetpack is almost as dumb as soldier parachute, both are way too hard to hit with projectiles midair and are extremely random and distracting. they should stick to demo, soldier, and scout with on demand aerial capabilities. sure maybe pyro needs some sort of special movement ability but for fucks sake why a jetpack, why not give pyro the ability to look down at the ground and jump+airblast to do a sort of soldier style airblast jump that takes 50 ammo and maybe 20 hp. it would be more fun to do, easier to hit, and could be done more frequently than jetpack

also the flames are fucking retarded now, i dont even bother playing the class because of this sole reason

just my ideas

Pyro was always good in pubs because it's a class that shines against scattered players and unwatched flanks. Now they buffed it in a way that enhances those properties even further while not requiring any skill to use, if I feel like turning my brain off I can just get the backburner and jetpack and fly around melting faces and it's not even satisfying because it's just a w+m1 gibus with a jump on cooldown.

I still really think that if they fix hit detection and reduce flame boxsize to the point where it needs an amount of tracking to use it will be mostly fine and I'd personally be happy with it. But I already wrote my feedback email to Valve and I'd suggest you all to do the same.

hitboxes are still huge

http://logs.tf/1880913

mid playoffs game

this is from the other playoff game

https://clips.twitch.tv/UgliestPuzzledHeronKappaWealth
https://clips.twitch.tv/MoistTangibleChimpanzeeDancingBanana

2-3 shotting requires aim(Dragon's Fury), it takes a bit longer with just m1 flamethrowers

I know this isn't really about damage, but I feel like this wasn't possible with the old airblast: https://plays.tv/video/5a0c6119eabd848e6f/new-airblast-airblast

I probably could've surfed it better to stay alive, but I didn't expect it at all.

Something like this happened to me yesterday, I was literally pushed what seemed like 6 meters (close to 20 feet for my americans) and into the pit... that's ridiculous.

a/d strafing doesn't work when you get airblasted so you probably would've died regardless

i wish valve would make airblast less aids to play against. the cone is way too big and it's too spammable.
and nullifying all your projectile damage is bad enough why does it have to be minicrit

Love how the update was all about trying to make the pyro skillful to play against and making airblast less aids but then went ahead and made all the things that make pyro such an annoying class even worse somehow.

I'm sure the TF team thought Pyro would be too weak if they fixed the stunlock (lol), so they decided to make airblast a lot stronger to compensate.

i miss being able to do this shit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfD8g_Q1mSM&t=30s

Airblasting downward is super weird right now; it makes the airblasted player glide across the ground like an ice rink for some reason. You can get airblasted over the pit on steel, land on the point, and continue sliding off like the point is coated in ice or something rofl.

Lol yeah, they said that airblasting at a player's feet no longer misses. But it never missed it just made sense that pushing someone towards the ground wouldn't do anything, they are actually brainless.

competitive aside, I believe they're trying to make the Pyro a flanking, positioning class; instead of focusing on his aiming skills. "Because he is a close range class, so if he manage to get close to you, he deserved a kill", stuff like that

but maps in TF2 are mostly tight & chokey, so unlike class like Heavy, that needs to know his place to avoid getting killed in 3 secs, Pyro pretty much just needs to w+m1 and still be as effective as anyone else. He's like a reverse version of the Sniper, at least headshot takes skill

idk how a flanking class should be like, less health more speed?

They left some things out of the patch notes. Flamethrower damage was doubled across the board.
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Flame_Thrower
Previous value was ~6.82 if I remember correctly. The demonstration video still shows the old damage.