I'm not the greatest player ever, but I understand that a lot of class-limits, and weapon bans exist because they're op when defending last on 5 cp.
My idea would be to add a 3 second delay to class switching in spawn. This would punish people for going a certain class and trying to switch off.
What do you guys think?
Here's a strawpoll. http://www.strawpoll.me/14745513
I'm not the greatest player ever, but I understand that a lot of class-limits, and weapon bans exist because they're op when defending last on 5 cp.
My idea would be to add a 3 second delay to class switching in spawn. This would punish people for going a certain class and trying to switch off.
What do you guys think?
Here's a strawpoll. http://www.strawpoll.me/14745513
[img]http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/000/751/fdh.jpg[/img]
I thought we left 6s timer memes in 2017
I thought we left 6s timer memes in 2017
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what the fuck i just hacked strawpoll
[quote]success "failed"
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what the fuck i just hacked strawpoll
any keyboard input should have a running total of delay so more keys pressed adds more delay this will make people press only w and the game will be fast and no stalemates !!!!
any keyboard input should have a running total of delay so more keys pressed adds more delay this will make people press only w and the game will be fast and no stalemates !!!!
I don't think you understand anything about TF2, OP
I don't think you understand anything about TF2, OP
how would this idea fix anything to do with class limits or weapon bans? only thing it might do is stop snipers being stood in spawn doors
BumFreezemedics being able to overheal each other, demomen being able to sticky the same point/ several doors at once, engis being able to tank one building to stop it ever going down are all pretty unfixable problems. class limits are necessary.
how would this idea fix anything to do with class limits or weapon bans? only thing it might do is stop snipers being stood in spawn doors
[quote=BumFreeze]medics being able to overheal each other, demomen being able to sticky the same point/ several doors at once, engis being able to tank one building to stop it ever going down are all pretty unfixable problems. class limits are necessary.[/quote]
will just slow the game down even further
will just slow the game down even further
VeccI don't think you understand anything about TF2, OP
If you truly believe that, then please enlighten me on why this would be a bad idea. Calling me ignorant accomplishes nothing.
BumFreezehow would this idea fix anything to do with class limits or weapon bans? only thing it might do is stop snipers being stood in spawn doorsBumFreezemedics being able to overheal each other, demomen being able to sticky the same point/ several doors at once, engis being able to tank one building to stop it ever going down are all pretty unfixable problems. class limits are necessary.
Rescue Ranger for example is abused by waiting in spawn, healing the sentry, and then quickly switching off to a regular class once your sentry is destroyed, with no risk to yourself. A nerf like I proposed would punish this and basically give the attacking team a 5v6 for 3 seconds after taking down the sentry. The same thing applies to a sniper.
I think maybe this nerf should only apply to last in 5 cp, because that's the only place it's a massive problem. I'm not suggesting that a nerf like this would un-ban every weapon or completely remove class limits. But a lot of classes used to have a class limit of 2 and maybe we could return to that, and rescue could definitely have potential to be un-banned because it's only overpowered when defending last in 5 cp.
[quote=Vecc]I don't think you understand anything about TF2, OP[/quote]
If you truly believe that, then please enlighten me on why this would be a bad idea. Calling me ignorant accomplishes nothing.
[quote=BumFreeze]how would this idea fix anything to do with class limits or weapon bans? only thing it might do is stop snipers being stood in spawn doors
[quote=BumFreeze]medics being able to overheal each other, demomen being able to sticky the same point/ several doors at once, engis being able to tank one building to stop it ever going down are all pretty unfixable problems. class limits are necessary.[/quote][/quote]
Rescue Ranger for example is abused by waiting in spawn, healing the sentry, and then quickly switching off to a regular class once your sentry is destroyed, with no risk to yourself. A nerf like I proposed would punish this and basically give the attacking team a 5v6 for 3 seconds after taking down the sentry. The same thing applies to a sniper.
I think maybe this nerf should only apply to last in 5 cp, because that's the only place it's a massive problem. I'm not suggesting that a nerf like this would un-ban every weapon or completely remove class limits. But a lot of classes used to have a class limit of 2 and maybe we could return to that, and rescue could definitely have potential to be un-banned because it's only overpowered when defending last in 5 cp.
naturespiritI think maybe this nerf should only apply to last in 5 cp, because that's the only place it's a massive problem. I'm not suggesting that a nerf like this would un-ban every weapon or completely remove class limits. But a lot of classes used to have a class limit of 2 and maybe we could return to that, and rescue could definitely have potential to be un-banned because it's only overpowered when defending last in 5 cp.
Ah yes, so we add a 3 second delay to changing class, but only to the team that's defending their own last. This supposedly fixes poorly designed weapons and class-limits.
How do you then propose we implement this?
You could make a sourcemod and force every server that wants to play 6v6 to install the mod. That's not a logistics nightmare or anything. If not that, you could always send an email to valve. Hey valve please change 5cp so the defenders can only change their class after a 3 second delay, but only when they're defending their own last. I'm sure they'll love this idea.
next thread pls
[quote=naturespirit]I think maybe this nerf should only apply to last in 5 cp, because that's the only place it's a massive problem. I'm not suggesting that a nerf like this would un-ban every weapon or completely remove class limits. But a lot of classes used to have a class limit of 2 and maybe we could return to that, and rescue could definitely have potential to be un-banned because it's only overpowered when defending last in 5 cp.[/quote]
Ah yes, so we add a 3 second delay to changing class, but only to the team that's defending their own last. This supposedly fixes poorly designed weapons and class-limits.
How do you then propose we implement this?
You could make a sourcemod and force every server that wants to play 6v6 to install the mod. That's not a logistics nightmare or anything. If not that, you could always send an email to valve. Hey valve please change 5cp so the defenders can only change their class after a 3 second delay, but only when they're defending their own last. I'm sure they'll love this idea.
next thread pls
@CondoM
I don't have any plans to seriously implement this into the game. I'm just interested in hearing the community's thoughts on it. It's clear that most people think it's a horrible idea, but sadly very few people are saying why they believe it's a horrible idea.
But if somebody wanted to put this into the game, they could test it in a tournament or something.
@CondoM
I don't have any plans to seriously implement this into the game. I'm just interested in hearing the community's thoughts on it. It's clear that most people think it's a horrible idea, but sadly very few people are saying why they believe it's a horrible idea.
But if somebody wanted to put this into the game, they could test it in a tournament or something.
In matches that matter, teams will do whatever is possible to win games, which for teams defending last means doing whatever is possible to not lose the game. A class switch delay will not change this dynamic, players on last will still switch to the best classes, but it will greatly affect the counter-push if they are successful in their defense. The switch delay would only serve to stalemate the game even worse, as teams on last definitely won't be able to push out of last.
What you should really be trying to brainstorm ideas for is how to make players run offclasses in situations that aren't last stalemates. Every class in the game is viable for specific situations, the problem is that game situations change very rapidly, so one class being viable for one situation becomes terrible in the future. An idea like a 3s class switch anywhere on the map works much better at solving this problem.
And no, class limits and weapon bans are not put in place because of the way current last holds work, they are there because in situations where a particular massing of classes or a particular use of weapons completely breaks the flow of the game. The situations might be rare or they might be all the time, but either way, allowing a trump card to be played in the form of a banned weapon / class would be a huge mistake.
I don't have any plans to seriously implement this into the game.
Then why are you even suggesting this as a solution to a problem then. At least if you are going to theory craft do it within the confines of the game as it actually is or could possibly be.
In matches that matter, teams will do whatever is possible to win games, which for teams defending last means doing whatever is possible to not lose the game. A class switch delay will not change this dynamic, players on last will still switch to the best classes, but it will greatly affect the counter-push if they are successful in their defense. The switch delay would only serve to stalemate the game even worse, as teams on last definitely won't be able to push out of last.
What you should really be trying to brainstorm ideas for is how to make players run offclasses in situations that aren't last stalemates. Every class in the game is viable for specific situations, the problem is that game situations change very rapidly, so one class being viable for one situation becomes terrible in the future. An idea like a 3s class switch anywhere on the map works much better at solving this problem.
And no, class limits and weapon bans are not put in place because of the way current last holds work, they are there because in situations where a particular massing of classes or a particular use of weapons completely breaks the flow of the game. The situations might be rare or they might be all the time, but either way, allowing a trump card to be played in the form of a banned weapon / class would be a huge mistake.
[quote]I don't have any plans to seriously implement this into the game.[/quote]
Then why are you even suggesting this as a solution to a problem then. At least if you are going to theory craft do it within the confines of the game as it actually is or could possibly be.
The real solution to this is simple by what you want achieved, somehow removed the ability to resub instantly or switch class immediately with a touch of a button.
If you change class manually but hitting comma and then clicking a class, it will be a good enough delay imo compared to just hitting your numpad the moment you hit spawn to change class. Also if you remove the ability to resub instantly you will get rid of people resupplying really fast along with them getting crit heals.
The real solution to this is simple by what you want achieved, somehow removed the ability to resub instantly or switch class immediately with a touch of a button.
If you change class manually but hitting comma and then clicking a class, it will be a good enough delay imo compared to just hitting your numpad the moment you hit spawn to change class. Also if you remove the ability to resub instantly you will get rid of people resupplying really fast along with them getting crit heals.
CorunsonThe real solution to this is simple by what you want achieved, somehow removed the ability to resub instantly or switch class immediately with a touch of a button.
If you change class manually but hitting comma and then clicking a class, it will be a good enough delay imo compared to just hitting your numpad the moment you hit spawn to change class. Also if you remove the ability to resub instantly you will get rid of people resupplying really fast along with them getting crit heals.
I agree tbh. The goals of the 3 second delay are fine but implementation wise it'd be very annoying for the player. Overall it'd weaken last defences, especially if it also applied to loadout swaps (even to the same loadout). I don't think it'd slow the game down at all.
I think there's bigger problems that need addressing with 5cp though
[quote=Corunson]The real solution to this is simple by what you want achieved, somehow removed the ability to resub instantly or switch class immediately with a touch of a button.
If you change class manually but hitting comma and then clicking a class, it will be a good enough delay imo compared to just hitting your numpad the moment you hit spawn to change class. Also if you remove the ability to resub instantly you will get rid of people resupplying really fast along with them getting crit heals.[/quote]
I agree tbh. The goals of the 3 second delay are fine but implementation wise it'd be very annoying for the player. Overall it'd weaken last defences, especially if it also applied to loadout swaps (even to the same loadout). I don't think it'd slow the game down at all.
I think there's bigger problems that need addressing with 5cp though