The team figures we are looking to reach this season are 50 Open, 25 IM and 9 Invite. We can have more or less in IM but Invite will not be run with less than 9 teams. Currently we have 7 confirmed Invite teams but no teams are stepping up to the last two spots and I don't think it will change between now and reg ending. Some of the teams who look to be Invite-capable are averse to playing in it.
As of last season the cost to play Invite has been lowered to $40 per player which, with the free premium for being on an Invite roster, makes the cost of playing in Invite roughly the same as playing in IM. I know that cost may not be the most prohibitive factor for players who may not want to dedicate their season to being hyper-competitive, and I don't want to bait people with the promise of LAN™, but there really is no way that we will improve the scene or add a LAN event if people don't want to even play at the highest level.
I'm not trying to guilt people into playing Invite if it will be legitimately unfun for them, but we need to have a top level of competition. Thanks for listening.
The team figures we are looking to reach this season are 50 Open, 25 IM and 9 Invite. We can have more or less in IM but Invite will not be run with less than 9 teams. Currently we have 7 confirmed Invite teams but no teams are stepping up to the last two spots and I don't think it will change between now and reg ending. Some of the teams who look to be Invite-capable are averse to playing in it.
As of last season the cost to play Invite has been lowered to $40 per player which, with the free premium for being on an Invite roster, makes the cost of playing in Invite roughly the same as playing in IM. I know that cost may not be the most prohibitive factor for players who may not want to dedicate their season to being hyper-competitive, and I don't want to bait people with the promise of LAN™, but there really is no way that we will improve the scene or add a LAN event if people don't want to even play at the highest level.
I'm not trying to guilt people into playing Invite if it will be legitimately unfun for them, but we need to have a top level of competition. Thanks for listening.
tri_Some of the teams who look to be Invite-capable are averse to playing in it.
Call 'em out I want names.
[quote=tri_]Some of the teams who look to be Invite-capable are averse to playing in it.[/quote]
Call 'em out I want names.
https://puu.sh/ySZSf/3f4304432e.png
does this have anything to do with it
[img]https://puu.sh/ySZSf/3f4304432e.png[/img]
does this have anything to do with it
No, generally (some) people aren't too keen to the idea of playing at the bottom of a division when they could be playing at the top of one.
With that said, if people don't step up, they won't be at the top of their div anyway when us 7 have to move down into IM with Invite not existing, so...
No, generally (some) people aren't too keen to the idea of playing at the bottom of a division when they could be playing at the top of one.
With that said, if people don't step up, they won't be at the top of their div anyway when us 7 have to move down into IM with Invite not existing, so...
I still stand by my proposal of 9 invite captains drafting players to form new teams each season. That shit would actually be so fun
I still stand by my proposal of 9 invite captains drafting players to form new teams each season. That shit would actually be so fun
Jarrett000No, generally (some) people aren't too keen to the idea of playing at the bottom of a division when they could be playing at the top of one.
And this is fair. I guess the question I have though is.. why is it that there is no team that can defeat Froyotech when it matters? Or why does the top of Invite have to be one team? (I know that the answer here will be "well the top of invite is actually 3-4 teams and has been every season" but realistically that's not true. TheFragile said it better than me, and I'm sure folks will sooner listen to him than me.
I understand there are many pieces to it and there's no easy answer, but I think it's important to tackle that elephant in the room. Are not enough people trying? Is it hard to find motivation? Is it a function of age somehow? Is there something broken that can be fixed to help this?
[quote=Jarrett000]No, generally (some) people aren't too keen to the idea of playing at the bottom of a division when they could be playing at the top of one.
[/quote]
And this is fair. I guess the question I have though is.. why is it that there is no team that can defeat Froyotech when it matters? Or why does the top of Invite have to be one team? (I know that the answer here will be "well the top of invite is actually 3-4 teams and has been every season" but realistically that's not true. [url=https://twitter.com/TheFragileTF2/status/947541300647251968]TheFragile said it better than me, and I'm sure folks will sooner listen to him than me.[/url]
I understand there are many pieces to it and there's no easy answer, but I think it's important to tackle that elephant in the room. Are not enough people trying? Is it hard to find motivation? Is it a function of age somehow? Is there something broken that can be fixed to help this?
Imo the game has enough talent currently playing to beat froyo, it's just that the teams they form fold more often than not. If teams at the top of invite stuck together more, the scene would grow more competitive.
Imo the game has enough talent currently playing to beat froyo, it's just that the teams they form fold more often than not. If teams at the top of invite stuck together more, the scene would grow more competitive.
Myself and my teammates have volunteered on 2 separate occasions to move up when we were clearly not capable of competing in invite; was asked to do it again and I straight up said no this time.
Would really appreciate the gesture if another team sacrificed their potentially winning IM season to help keep our high level competition running. If you don’t you’re gonna end up playing those top invite teams in IM anyways and you’ll be in essentially a similar situation.
Please step up, there are clearly more capable teams then my current one who should be filling these spots.
Myself and my teammates have volunteered on 2 separate occasions to move up when we were clearly not capable of competing in invite; was asked to do it again and I straight up said no this time.
Would really appreciate the gesture if another team sacrificed their potentially winning IM season to help keep our high level competition running. If you don’t you’re gonna end up playing those top invite teams in IM anyways and you’ll be in essentially a similar situation.
Please step up, there are clearly more capable teams then my current one who should be filling these spots.
to be fair ascent 2? seasons ago won more maps than they lost but still lost GF. then corsa left and the team overall got worse with the rando switch, then rando left and it became a dumpster fire.
i think if you keep that ascent roster the same it'd be fairly back and forth between those two, but even then we'd have a 2 team invite instead of 1 so not much better.
also poaching has fucked or straight up killed a lot of teams over the seasons. it's hard to say no when one of the top 2 want you to play for them instead of trying to grind your team into an actual competitor for first.
to be fair ascent 2? seasons ago won more maps than they lost but still lost GF. then corsa left and the team overall got worse with the rando switch, then rando left and it became a dumpster fire.
i think if you keep that ascent roster the same it'd be fairly back and forth between those two, but even then we'd have a 2 team invite instead of 1 so not much better.
also poaching has fucked or straight up killed a lot of teams over the seasons. it's hard to say no when one of the top 2 want you to play for them instead of trying to grind your team into an actual competitor for first.
dippidy invite
https://play.esea.net/teams/143560
marmadukeGRYLLSI still stand by my proposal of 9 invite captains drafting players to form new teams each season. That shit would actually be so fun
this seems like it would be totally feasible for a one-off tournament, and it would be pretty entertaining
[quote=marmadukeGRYLLS]I still stand by my proposal of 9 invite captains drafting players to form new teams each season. That shit would actually be so fun[/quote]
this seems like it would be totally feasible for a one-off tournament, and it would be pretty entertaining
I'd argue that there are enough good players out there that could make strong enough teams to the point where we could have an entire 9 team Invite division worth of playoff quality teams. What's missing to bring those players forward are motivation/incentives to reach the top and strong leaders. More opportunities, more payout, more prestige for being a top level player would hopefully encourage teams to struggle their way to the top (could be in the form of prizes, LANs, recognition, in-game skins etc). Leaders who refuse to let their team die at any cost and provide a constructive environment to their teammates would provide stability. However, I think there is a strong systemic component holding some of these teams back as well. Currently, it's discouraging to play Invite when only the top 4 teams in the division receive prizes. This pushes people to prefer to dominate a lower division rather than struggle in the higher division. In their minds it's better to coast to a small prize rather than than struggle for nothing at all. I think that being on an invite team should be a coveted/privileged spot, such that even if you are the winner of the division below its still not on par with being invite. There should be as much appeal as possible to playing invite and as little appeal possible to play in a division you are better than. An important step would be restructuring prizes such that winning a lower division paid out less than getting last place in the division above it. Perhaps harsher punishments to letting teams die, sandbag, throw, act unprofessionally may also help to revitalize the league. I believe that's where we should really be focusing because if the integrity of competition isn't being upheld then we're never going to get anywhere no matter what we do. Unfortunately we always reach a chicken and egg type problem where the support wont come unless we have the teams and the teams wont come unless we have the support. Something has to break the cycle, but the only way to solve the problem is to step up and take action. The last thing you should do is belittle teams for earning championships and surviving for 12 seasons straight. If that's not the goal of every single team then the competition loses all meaning.
So with that said I have an open offer to the community and invite division: I will fully reimburse the league fees of any bottom 5 invite team ($240 per team for a possible total of $1200) if they meet the following criteria by the end of the season (all or nothing):
- play all matches
- no forfeit losses
- no thrown matches
- no 5v6 matches
- proper aliases used in every match
Hopefully that will help remove some of the intimidation of playing invite this season while also serving as an experiment to see if restructuring of the division and encouraging positive conduct will have positive effects on the league.
I'd argue that there are enough good players out there that could make strong enough teams to the point where we could have an entire 9 team Invite division worth of playoff quality teams. What's missing to bring those players forward are motivation/incentives to reach the top and strong leaders. More opportunities, more payout, more prestige for being a top level player would hopefully encourage teams to struggle their way to the top (could be in the form of prizes, LANs, recognition, in-game skins etc). Leaders who refuse to let their team die at any cost and provide a constructive environment to their teammates would provide stability. However, I think there is a strong systemic component holding some of these teams back as well. Currently, it's discouraging to play Invite when only the top 4 teams in the division receive prizes. This pushes people to prefer to dominate a lower division rather than struggle in the higher division. In their minds it's better to coast to a small prize rather than than struggle for nothing at all. I think that being on an invite team should be a coveted/privileged spot, such that even if you are the winner of the division below its still not on par with being invite. There should be as much appeal as possible to playing invite and as little appeal possible to play in a division you are better than. An important step would be restructuring prizes such that winning a lower division paid out less than getting last place in the division above it. Perhaps harsher punishments to letting teams die, sandbag, throw, act unprofessionally may also help to revitalize the league. I believe that's where we should really be focusing because if the integrity of competition isn't being upheld then we're never going to get anywhere no matter what we do. Unfortunately we always reach a chicken and egg type problem where the support wont come unless we have the teams and the teams wont come unless we have the support. Something has to break the cycle, but the only way to solve the problem is to step up and take action. The last thing you should do is belittle teams for earning championships and surviving for 12 seasons straight. If that's not the goal of every single team then the competition loses all meaning.
So with that said I have an open offer to the community and invite division: I will fully reimburse the league fees of any bottom 5 invite team ($240 per team for a possible total of $1200) if they meet the following criteria by the end of the season (all or nothing):
[olist]
[*] play all matches
[*] no forfeit losses
[*] no thrown matches
[*] no 5v6 matches
[*] proper aliases used in every match
[/olist]
Hopefully that will help remove some of the intimidation of playing invite this season while also serving as an experiment to see if restructuring of the division and encouraging positive conduct will have positive effects on the league.
b4nnyThe last thing you should do is belittle teams for earning championships and surviving for 12 seasons straight. If that's not the goal of every single team then the competition loses all meaning.
Good post. Nobody is belittling your team though.
[quote=b4nny]The last thing you should do is belittle teams for earning championships and surviving for 12 seasons straight. If that's not the goal of every single team then the competition loses all meaning.
[/quote]
Good post. Nobody is belittling your team though.
b4nny is fucking rich dude
b4nny is fucking rich dude
We would be willing to play but there are about 4-5 teams currently playing IM that would be more qualified
We would be willing to play but there are about 4-5 teams currently playing IM that would be more qualified
Aszneeb4nny is fucking rich dude
No, tf2 is his job and he really wants to grow the tf2 competitive community.
[quote=Asznee]b4nny is fucking rich dude[/quote]
No, tf2 is his job and he really wants to grow the tf2 competitive community.
AccordAszneeb4nny is fucking rich dude
No, tf2 is his job and he really wants to grow the tf2 competitive community.
i was joking
[quote=Accord][quote=Asznee]b4nny is fucking rich dude[/quote]
No, tf2 is his job and he really wants to grow the tf2 competitive community.[/quote]
i was joking
tfw you literally get paid to lose to the guy paying you
tfw you literally get paid to lose to the guy paying you
the final logical endpoint of competitive tf2: b4nny gets so bored he pays 50 people to play tf2 with him for three months
the final logical endpoint of competitive tf2: b4nny gets so bored he pays 50 people to play tf2 with him for three months
is 4th sure to make their money back cause otherwise with that midtable suddenly becomes the worst place
is 4th sure to make their money back cause otherwise with that midtable suddenly becomes the worst place
AszneeAccordAszneeb4nny is fucking rich dude
No, tf2 is his job and he really wants to grow the tf2 competitive community.
i was joking
u should stop joking
[quote=Asznee][quote=Accord][quote=Asznee]b4nny is fucking rich dude[/quote]
No, tf2 is his job and he really wants to grow the tf2 competitive community.[/quote]
i was joking[/quote]
u should stop joking
Henlo teams that tri alluded to, it is now your move.
Henlo teams that tri alluded to, it is now your move.
dishsoapAszneeAccordAszneeb4nny is fucking rich dude
No, tf2 is his job and he really wants to grow the tf2 competitive community.
i was joking
u should stop joking
no
[quote=dishsoap][quote=Asznee][quote=Accord][quote=Asznee]b4nny is fucking rich dude[/quote]
No, tf2 is his job and he really wants to grow the tf2 competitive community.[/quote]
i was joking[/quote]
u should stop joking[/quote]
no
move doolphin rider to invite
man doesnt belong in IM
move doolphin rider to invite
man doesnt belong in IM
can we ignore asnzee and keep the conversation on topic please
can we ignore asnzee and keep the conversation on topic please
who are the confirmed 7 and what are the rosters
who are the confirmed 7 and what are the rosters
iirc:
FROYO: arekk, yomps, blaze, b4nny, habib, shade
Ascent: slem, corBa, marmaloo, paddie, badonski, nursey
SVIFT: h5, alec, showstopper, marmaduke, sigh, 404
my team: me, yight?, laz, aim, yight?, meyy
veL: kunck, shamoo, ?, krypt, jarrett, bear
blackswan: midas, jynx, jay, mirrorman, ether, ?
the sparkle gang: spamfest, stochapstick, june, etney/zesty?, smitty, split
i think thats up to date
iirc:
FROYO: arekk, yomps, blaze, b4nny, habib, shade
Ascent: slem, corBa, marmaloo, paddie, badonski, nursey
SVIFT: h5, alec, showstopper, marmaduke, sigh, 404
my team: me, yight?, laz, aim, yight?, meyy
veL: kunck, shamoo, ?, krypt, jarrett, bear
blackswan: midas, jynx, jay, mirrorman, ether, ?
the sparkle gang: spamfest, stochapstick, june, etney/zesty?, smitty, split
i think thats up to date
nothing against b4nny aka b4nn margera but maybe he should take a season off?
nothing against b4nny aka b4nn margera but maybe he should take a season off?