Oh it's this thread again.. hold up lemme just launch rustle_jimmies.exe

At the very least, reverse the xbow reload when you change weapons

This again...
http://www.teamfortress.tv/41088/ban-the-crossbow

https://i.imgur.com/HnM4I4f.gif

2012 tf2 > 2018 tf2

Ban the crossbow. Reverse the demo nerf. Get rid of medics running in scout speeds. Perfection.

lmao your points are so dumb
*standing still looks dumb -> How is that relevant ?
*you lose awareness of your surroundings -> do you realize how stupid this is ? If you lose awareness because you're shooting arrows, im sorry but you are the problem, not the crossbow
*makes calling damage nearly pointless -> again, what ??? calling damage and focus has, and always will be core to teamfights
*makes all the other primaries trolling -> again, how does that adress the problem you're trying to raise ?

im sorry but your points make you sound like you're a bad player, not that the weapon is broken (which it mightbe, idc)

What about razorback? You charge uber as fast as if the person you're healing is injured.

im talking about banning the crossbow since i wasnt even playing tf2...
people keep arguing that its the only thing which makes medic fun but if you play medic solely because of the xbox you shouldnt play him

No you don't since when sniper with razorback is 125 he's also fully buffed, so you build at slowest possible rate

True

xbow still needs minor tweaks, healing really should be more like 50-75 for the high end rather than 150. It's really lame that medic primaries are garbage or disrupts gameplay so much.

Literally just needs to do less burst healing at range and it would be fine, Bowing people up close and setting up for pushes doesn’t really effect the game much it’s more about the massive swing of hp from distance imo.

before they reworked the two weapons, the darwins danger shield and the vita-saw were both banned from competitive on the merit that both were so good, that one player refusing to run the other would put them at an almost insurmountable disadvantage. while that advantage is reflected a lot more obviously in raw stats (instant bullet resistance + instant ubercharge percentage), one could argue that the crossbow is so powerful that running literally any other item in the slot is putting you and subsequently your team at a near insurmountable disadvantage (unless you're froyo teehee xD)

uwu noooo i dont want to learn how to prioritise heals on the correct target it makes my widdle brain hurt let me click on them and make their booboos all better instantly its really skillful btw ill quit if u dont ;______;

- m*dic mains

the amount it heals is bullshit

passive reload is bullshit

promotes really gay gameplay

ban til its nerfed (probably never)

For those saying that when item servers were down they didn't enjoy having no crossbow: you played with it for couple of hours, so you probably didn't have time to develop proper strategies. The entire 6's meta is built around the idea of medic having a crossbow as well, so of course taking it away ain't going be fun at the begining. If you were to play without it for more time you'd probably enjoy it more, maybe much more.

Just straight-up halving the healing would be fine imo. The problem with removing crossbows is heavy classes lose a ton of mobility and independence. So make it heal say 50 max therefore allowing the guy stranded on 10hp to rocket jump to a pack/ back to his combo but not immediately be back in the fight.

Medics would still try to hit those clutch arrows to win fights or prevent people from cratering or to drop the enemy medic but it wouldn't just be a retarded mega-heal "fuck you" to the guy who just dealt 280 to a soldier in a 1v1.

It would also make people consider running the overdose as the crossbow would be more of a utility unlock rather than a godlike game winner.

Needles where barely viable when they were the only option. The thing shoots snail speed projectiles with ridiculous spread.
IMHO the crossbow needs the following nerfs
Slower reload speed
No uber gain from arrows
No passive reload

This fixes several issues.
You can't use it to solo tank a heavy for 500 HP.
You have to be more conservative instead of using them as your primary healing during a fight.
An actual choice between protection (needles) and utility (crossbow).

Needles need the following buffs.
faster projectile speed
lower spread

These buffs wouldnt need to be big to make a huge difference in how useful they are. As it currently stands the crossbow is also better at defence than the needles because it is actually consistent against players with more than 3 functioning brain cells or forming a pact with Tzeentch to hit some against a scout that can actually strafe in the open.

You're wrong, try it out for yourself.

let's theorycraft potential balance changes for another 10 pages, i'm sure valve will listen this time

Yep, they won't and we all know it,

I believe there was a one night cup sort where we tried to play without xbow but I don't remember how it went,

I think having a cup that spans over a couple of days or maybe a week would be good because people would be "forced" to scrim without arrows as well.

the one night we played all games with no crossbows involved was one of the best nights of scrims ever

Well doesn't look like anything will change this time.

See you in 3-4 months.

make the needle gun like lightning gun

Gonna give my 2 cents on the issue one for the crossbow, and one for the needles.

1. There are 2 sides of the crossbow as a med main that makes the crossbow suck, and also awesome as fuck

the thing that sucks is constantly arrowing standing still people, It's not that skillful, or that rewarding/fun to hit a player standing still, and if you miss you feel like shit and then people shout at you and it's not fun at all

The awesome thing is when you hit a clutch arrow that saves a teammate from the brink of death at the right time.

the changes I'd like is for maybe to have the crossbow on a timer (recharges every 5-10 seconds? not sure on the time range) but have it heal an your teammate to full hp when it hits. This would make it so a med would have to be more smart with his bow, do I use my one shot on a teammate that is going to flank but weak, or use it on a teammate that is in the fight and hope you can hit it to save him. etc. etc. Also no ammo needed so a medic won't accidentally pick up a ammo pack when his teammate needs it.

2. For the needles I feel that this weapon should specialize in helping a med get away and help his team not be in such a huge dis ad when a fight is lost (mid fight, lost, etc.). Although if the bow got nerfed alone syringes would still be superior self help weapon, I still feel it lacks in helping you team not be in such a dis ad to potentially change from the crossbow as even if you get away you can many times still lose your next fight, the simple change I'll like to add is give all syringe guns a 15% percentage on uber when you get a kill. something extra that helps you if you manage to get a kill that 15% can really be a difference in getting uber sooner to either save your teammates, not lot losing the round etc. And if people don't chase you cause of that reason, then you get to leave free without such pressure.

ya old tf2 is much better but u aint ever gunna get that back without killing the game with a promod
as much as i hate the damned thing, banning the xbow now will make the game even worse than it already is

so either u get fed up with new tf2 and quit the game like me and other old cunts or you get used to how tf2 is played now

I've played medic both before and after the crossbow meta. Crossbow is overpowered and breaks the mechanics.
Anyone who is saying it should be nerfed; its not going to be nerfed. Valve doesnt care. The only solution we have as a community is banning.

The weapon takes little skill and trivializes a lot of skillsets. Examples on top of my head:
Managing your and your teams damage - your entire team gets a free jail card from red health to full in a couple seconds. Pushing on damage is obsolete and playing aggressively is punished.
Managing you and your teams positioning relevant to the medic - get an arrow from 30 meters away = never have to leave/manage health and kits on flank.
Spamming chokepoints or fights with arrows isnt skillful, standing still for arrows isnt skillful, hiding behind cover to get arrowed when you would have died without crossbow isnt skillful.

Before arrows existed you had to heal with mediguns, which in my opinion is a true test of your skill and game sense. Your positioning relevant to the map and your target, potential threats, healing priority, and damage/health awareness. No crutches or gimmicks. Arrows essentially circumvents this by granting you almost infinite get out of jail cards, say the medic spam-healing his team for three times the efficiency. In practice, arrows break the health mechanics when properly used.

I think the solution is to ban the weapon since Valve is out of touch with the competitive community. Although it is unlikely for the weapon to balanced, here is how it could be balanced:

Arrows can continue to serve their purpose of healing outside the medic's normal close-range heal with the medigun, but at a reduced rate to combat spamming arrows, and a penalty for for using arrows close to your allies. Instead of being a 75~ hp burst at close range, it needs to be lower, something like 25. Having the weapon do minimal healing up close would prevent breaking the healing economy like explained above, and also greatly reduce healing over range. Something like 25(close)-50(long range) would be much more balanced than 75(close)-150(long range) and no passive reloading.

Making it a flat number of 25/30/35 would prevent outputting massive amounts of healing just because someone is far away, but still be able to save people from fall damage or give them a bit of aid when they're out of reach. Spamming choke points or players who are in combat isn't skillful or has anything to do with risk/reward, its more no risk/reward/reward.

Lowering the healing number by this much might seem like a drastic change at first, but if you understand the health economy and how burst healing destroys a large part of the game (health management, heal priority, pushing off damage etc) it -needs- to be heavily nerfed, while still maintaining some utility at range. In its current state, the utility is way too powerful at range and too powerful up close.

Cheers.

Syringe Gun is fun. It doesn't matter because it is so bad that you should never take it out when you could be healing people, unless you are alone. If you're alone and someone is fighting you, the Crossbow takes more skill to kill them anyway.

And there isn't really much complexity to running stock Medic. You critheal things that are not Scouts and then ignore them until they have critheals again.

Crossbow increases the Medic's effective healing range. He can stand far away and just fire arrows which can help his team win the fight. On the one hand it takes skill but on the other hand it feels cheap. When you lose a 1v1 to someone who just got crossbowed from across the map you feel cheated out of winning a DM fight.

You guys know I like unbanning things but for this one, I'm in favor of banning.

While i am in favor of nerfing the weapon i am not in favor of outright banning it. Removing arrows at this stage would be yet another buff for the scout (soldiers heavily benefit from the crossbow). Maybe if the medic speed buff got reverted but at this stage i am against anything that buffs scout and nerfs soldier either directly or indirectly.

coming from someone who said pyro wasnt overpowered i dont really take anything you have to say seriously