Posted this on the pugchamp thread, but I'll post it here again for those who probably don't wanna check that thread:

The rules have been updated: https://pug.champ.gg/rules/

- "Avoid attempting to play in games with players far above your skill level (particularly through being a captain or substituting for another player)"

- "Once you have received server info for the game, promptly connect to the voice and game server. If you are not present within five minutes, you may be removed and penalized."

It's stated in the rules but just in case it's hard to understand the amount of time allowed by offclassing has also been decreased. (Used to be about 1/3 of the pug, but we're going to decrease it to 1/4).

A lot more admin discretion is going to be used going forward along with these rules.

no point having this rule if its not going to be enforced

this is really aggravating to read because no rule can be enforced if no one fucking reports it

idk how stuff works in eu land though

/

this is true but it'd also be a lot better if there were more admins so people would go 'oh x player is admin i better not snipe for ten minutes against them and get banned' rather than the possibility of being reported if someone gets mad enough about it

edit: also honestly just crestrict insom for a week or something then maybe he'll have a reason to show up on time since he can actually get subbed lol

admins can sub any player in a pug

I maintain that offclassing rules as currently constructed are dumb

why should I care if the way I or my teammate is playing is pissing off the other team? isn't that the point?

I think it should only be against the rules if your own team complains that you're throwing/extending the pug/fucking around

some people like to play tf2 for fun, unlike you

Only messages I ever get are from Rocket at like 1am
At least check to see if any admins are on
Here's a list: Alexandros, Deathy, Tino, Jaguar, Jarrett, Moof, Nursey and Rikachu
Though to be fair I see that you guys probably don't have all these people added so it would be hard to contact them

yo readd

and probably only alexandros jaguar jarrett nursey and i play this game still so we probably need new admins

everyone who offclasses after being 3 or 4 rounds up should actually be murdered
i hate rolling out and seeing a sniper followed by "nah bro, trust" and instead making a 5-0 roll into a fucking 30 minute slog

same for the opposing team

ok im gonna start pugging again cause my season is over
if you're taking too long to join a server im banning you from pugs for like an hour
insom is crestricted for a week

If I'm in a pug and you need something then you're either gonna have to wait or ask someone else
we need more admins that pug cause i hate pugging
inhouses are better

holy shit moy is an admin what the hell
alright who would be a good admin and i think we need erynn to make it actually happen

hey rikachu can i have admin

I knew I would get a response like this, but it makes no sense. I offclass because it's fun for me, I enjoy playing pyro/sniper/spy, and I imagine others feel the same way. I also enjoy winning. Should I ask the other team to let me win so I can have as much fun as possible? Of course not, it's not their responsibility to make sure I have an enjoyable pug experience, that's on me. In the same vein, it's their responsibility to find a way to have fun in a pug regardless of what me or anyone else on my team is doing. If they can't, that's their problem.

On top of that, there are lots of ways people can play for fun that are annoying for the other team to deal with that have nothing to do with offclassing. I don't enjoy playing against Milan bombing in as demo, or soldiers going for crazy double fast rollouts, or pockets who run shotgun and get perma kritzed to do 450 dpm in a c pug. None of these things would work in a real game, but lack of teamwork in pugs means they're much harder to counter. Presumably the same is true for snipers and other offclasses. So why do we only punish people who offclass for 10 mins a game, rather than the guy who plays like a total moron for 30 mins? Because it's a distinct event that's easy to point to and, ultimately, to scapegoat. If my team is a bunch of bots and letting a w+m1 pyro literally run around and get a 5k every mid, it's easy to point to the pyro as the reason, even if insom or milan could bomb in and 2 pipe everything and the exact same outcome would occur.

The corollary to all this is what indecency said- if guys on your own team want the pug to end and get out of there and you're artificially delaying it by fucking around, there's not much you can really do about it without talking to an admin. That's why I have no problem enforcing rules, not just against offclassing, but against people fucking around in general, if enough people on their own team have a problem with it. I just don't get why fucking around on pyro is so much worse than fucking around on soldier. We both know, for instance, that I am doing a lot more to help my team on pyro than you are when you're trying to see if you can get reverse 6-dommed or break the deaths record or whatever. Why is it so much worse?

I'm assuming your response will be either "nah bro you're wrong" or "holy shit not reading all that", which is fine. I don't know why I wrote all this either. There must be some sort of hole inside my heart that I'm trying to fill with nerd essays.

idk do you pug alot

It seems that in most pugs there's at least 1 person(usually more) who have me or another admin on friends. If the captain isn't showing up, or you need to report something, just message me and I'll take care of it as soon as I can. If I can't deal with it right away, I'll try to message someone else for you.

Enjoy your pugs!

seriously let's brainstorm
who actually wants to be an admin, is reliable and pugs everyday

yea i pug alot

fuck off rowpieces

The point you're missing is that the community came to an agreement when they decided to make pug systems that if someone offclasses for a significant portion of a pug it's simply not fun for anyone other than the person doing it. Yeah you can be trying hard and doing well playing sniper the whole game but does anyone want to add to a pug environment where that shit is allowed? That's just not something people want to deal with. Maybe if there was money on the line or literally anything other than playing pugs strictly for the sake of enjoying yourself playing some tf2, then I can see allowing whatever alternative offclassing meta shit because you are trying your very hardest to win. But given that there's nothing like that I see no reason to forego the majority's enjoyment of playing video games for some dipshit to have a blast playing an offclass for the whole game lol.

I do agree with you on the point about having a strict number for how long is permissable or not being a bit silly, because if for example the game is a super big stalemate and you end up holding your own last a lot and go engineer, or you play sniper to break the stalemate, you can probably get over 7.5 mins (1/4 of the 30 min pug) offclassing even if it's completely fair play. Doing it to mid or pushing out from one last to another though is where I think it's reasonable to draw the line.

Also the deaths record thing was literally in a pugscrim 2 years ago, and im pretty sure ive only ever done that sorta reverse 6 dom shit in inhouse pugs around that long ago as well.

ya but you're a wanker

i know someone,saoyri seems like a good candidate

Besides lots of people having admins added on steam friends it's actually pretty easy to reach most folks these days. Most people run Discord where you don't need to add someone to message them. I haven't been pugging a lot but I am on all the time (usually 2am est or later most nights) so don't hesitate to message me if there's serious problems. I can often help right away but sometimes it might take a while. In those cases just be patient because I do read everything.

fuck u too tasheem

ban della

:3c....

moms gettin mcdonalds do u want anythin

I pug everyday, and I have a lot of the players that play pugs on PugChamp added on Steam so they can just contact me. I played 2,700 pugs within 2 years I don't know who pugs more than me.