Many of you will be aware that there is an outstanding issue with tourament group stage formats with how the inclusion of product makes round-based tiebreakers not work properly. As standard LAN procedure, 5cp maps are played to windifference 5, whereas koth_product is played first to 3. It is also standard LAN procedure to settle point tiebreaks in the group stage by comparing net rounds. This means that if you are expecting to win a game in groups, you should always ban viaduct as you stand to gain more net rounds (and vice-versa). This is stupid. Teams should be free to choose maps depending on their own preferences not on whether a win on a particular map will be more or less valuable.
I have come up with two potential solutions. 1. Play to windifference 6 for 5cp in groups, then double 'net rounds' score for rounds on product i.e. a 3-0 is equivalent to a 6-0, a 3-2 : 6-4 etc. This seems like a dauntingly big change but if you think about it the only games it will affect are those which were not very close anyway.
or 2. Less elegant but probably more stomachable: translate koth scores to 5cp scores. So a 3-0 on viaduct = 5-0 on 5cp, 3-1 = 4-1 and 3-2 = 5-3 (the exact translations could be changed obviously this is just a rough idea).
Many of you will be aware that there is an outstanding issue with tourament group stage formats with how the inclusion of product makes round-based tiebreakers not work properly. As standard LAN procedure, 5cp maps are played to windifference 5, whereas koth_product is played first to 3. It is also standard LAN procedure to settle point tiebreaks in the group stage by comparing net rounds. This means that [b]if you are expecting to win a game in groups, you should always ban viaduct as you stand to gain more net rounds[/b] (and vice-versa). This is stupid. Teams should be free to choose maps depending on their own preferences not on whether a win on a particular map will be more or less valuable.
I have come up with two potential solutions. 1. Play to windifference 6 for 5cp in groups, then double 'net rounds' score for rounds on product i.e. a 3-0 is equivalent to a 6-0, a 3-2 : 6-4 etc. This seems like a dauntingly big change but if you think about it the only games it will affect are those which were not very close anyway.
or 2. Less elegant but probably more stomachable: translate koth scores to 5cp scores. So a 3-0 on viaduct = 5-0 on 5cp, 3-1 = 4-1 and 3-2 = 5-3 (the exact translations could be changed obviously this is just a rough idea).
Agree that with i65 coming up, this needs to be addressed. The second option seems simpler to me, although at the cost of some extra work for the admins.
What do you think of the ETF2L system used in Highlander where a 3-2 game counts as a golden cap, basically you get 2 points if you win and one point if you lose. I like the idea of representing partial victories in a map that does not allow ties by design, and also it feels nice to have some points from a close game, but then again you don't necessarily get points from a close 4-3 5cp game so idk.
Agree that with i65 coming up, this needs to be addressed. The second option seems simpler to me, although at the cost of some extra work for the admins.
What do you think of the ETF2L system used in Highlander where a 3-2 game counts as a golden cap, basically you get 2 points if you win and one point if you lose. I like the idea of representing partial victories in a map that does not allow ties by design, and also it feels nice to have some points from a close game, but then again you don't necessarily get points from a close 4-3 5cp game so idk.
RGL has a system that while not perfectly implemented, has a good concept. Every game can earn you a potential of 3 points in total. How it would be implemented if koth and 5cp were weighted the same would approximately work like this:
Koth:
3-0 score = 3-0 points
3-1 score = 2.25-0.75 points
3-2 score = 1.8-1.2 points
5cp
4-0 score = 3-0 points
4-1 score = 2.4-0.6 points
4-2 score = 2-1 points
4-3 score = 1.7-1.3 points (not exact)
any 5cp game that doesn't end with a team getting 4 rounds, the points would be calculated by dividing 3 by the total number of rounds played out and then multiplying that number to get the number of points each team would earn from the match. I could see this potentially being an issue if it's a 1-0 game or something along the lines of that but imo that seems fair.
RGL has a system that while not perfectly implemented, has a good concept. Every game can earn you a potential of 3 points in total. How it would be implemented if koth and 5cp were weighted the same would approximately work like this:
Koth:
3-0 score = 3-0 points
3-1 score = 2.25-0.75 points
3-2 score = 1.8-1.2 points
5cp
4-0 score = 3-0 points
4-1 score = 2.4-0.6 points
4-2 score = 2-1 points
4-3 score = 1.7-1.3 points (not exact)
any 5cp game that doesn't end with a team getting 4 rounds, the points would be calculated by dividing 3 by the total number of rounds played out and then multiplying that number to get the number of points each team would earn from the match. I could see this potentially being an issue if it's a 1-0 game or something along the lines of that but imo that seems fair.
i feel like if you work your ass off and clutch out a 3-2 you deserve more. just takes away some of the tension/drama, because once it's 2-2, you know you're only playing for an extra .6 points.
i feel like if you work your ass off and clutch out a 3-2 you deserve more. just takes away some of the tension/drama, because once it's 2-2, you know you're only playing for an extra .6 points.
You could also just play KOTH maps as first to 4 instead of 3 and just count each round won by a score of 1.25 so that two KOTH rounds would give a score of 2.5 for example, while 5 rounds won in 5CP still gives 5 points
That will however make all scoring turn into decimals which also can be avoided completely by not playing KOTH at all, or more specifically Viaduct itself, but at least you'd be rewarded even more for winning rounds on a map you couldn't win more rounds on compared to 5CP
You could also just play KOTH maps as first to 4 instead of 3 and just count each round won by a score of 1.25 so that two KOTH rounds would give a score of 2.5 for example, while 5 rounds won in 5CP still gives 5 points
That will however make all scoring turn into decimals which also can be avoided completely by not playing KOTH at all, or more specifically Viaduct itself, but at least you'd be rewarded even more for winning rounds on a map you couldn't win more rounds on compared to 5CP
net rounds/points/goals has always been an absolutely terrible tiebreak in any sport or video game
the only actual good solution is a tiebreaker match, period
I realize that time constraints at lan can prevent this from happening, but anything else is a half-assed solution
net rounds/points/goals has always been an absolutely terrible tiebreak in any sport or video game
the only actual good solution is a tiebreaker match, period
I realize that time constraints at lan can prevent this from happening, but anything else is a half-assed solution