That's basically what has been said over and over in this thread except for some reason you think it's a good thing. If the only way to counter a weapon is for the other team to use that weapon then the meta shrinks. So despite having a broader whitelist, the meta is shrunk. This happens with a lot of the weapons that are in the game, they just aren't designed for competitive.

I responded to your full post on reddit with a video because I'm busy with IRL stuff and tournament stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HrEz6WB228

I added people to groups for a 2v2 mge tournament and worked on brackets

School and video games (in that order)

Okay, everyone who's URL is posted in this thread got invited to a group that I'll be sending out alerts to over the course of the tournament. Remember that everyone is required to pay 2 keys to play in this tournament. If you were in ESEA last season and you play all of your matches on time, you will get these 2 keys back when you finish the tournament.

To pay the fee/ collateral, send me a trade offer here: https://steamcommunity.com/tradeoffer/new/?partner=67060201&token=E9edW9ve

Along with the trade request, please past a link to your trade offer and the number of our TFTV thread. I'd prefer to get both keys from one person, but I will deal with it if people don't want to do that. To get your trade offer link, follow this short step tutorial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c7BuytNR_s

Brackets will start with a few teams playing an extra round tomorrow, then everyone will start playing next week. Check for a challonge link tomorrow afternoon!

Did you just recommend we make tf2 a reality show?

Yes it... is. What?

You say that like actually playing competitive tf2 disqualifies me from having an opinion on competitive tf2, which is really really really stupid, sorry that's just the truth. Me being "on the inside" isn't like some sort of mental disease. I understand how this game works from the stance of a 6v6 player, HL gold player, and a fanatic pubber (yeah i still like pubs and unlocks a lot). Maybe I don't understand as much as some, but I know enough to call out ignorance when I see it. And calling the GRU balanced in a competitive format is stubborn and ignorant.

Except I told you why one of those weapons was balanced and the other one isn't so that's a completely invalid example.

The majority of players that played in those pugs said they were fun but that it wouldn't work out at a high level of competitive with anything on the line.

SIGNUPS CLOSED BEYOND THIS POINT
No more signups guys, sorry. I'll be sending info to everyone signed up soon (tonight or tomorrow), and the first few matches will be played starting January 1st!

Bastid:

Nonono, it's a straight upgrade from stock in any form of competitive. As a heavy in 6s, you will never pull out your melee, meaning you'll never deal with any of the negatives of GRU, meaning it's a straight upgrade.

That's a bit of a streth imo. Soldiers much more regularly use their melee, so the downsides are more apparent. Also, soldiers would get to mid just as fast without the upgrade, maybe with a bit lower health. Midfights aside, you can't use escape plan to get to transition fights after respawn without a risk of dying, but GRU is pretty safe. I just listed the easiest to visualize issue with GRU, and the one extine mentioned in the vlog.

I'm all about bringing new players into the game. I coach/admin newbie mixes, I talk to people about competitive (6v6, hl, and even 4v4), I try my best to promote people to try competitive with my tournaments, etc. But in terms of spectating, yes that's exactly what I'm saying. If you've ever watched a UGC 6v6 cast or low level UGC HL cast you'd understand.

I can't tell if this is a troll or not because that's really not a reasonable thing to say but neither are the other things in your post.

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Extine:

They said that years ago why are you all of a sudden trying so hard to change it now rather than then? Also I feel like changing from something we (most of us) all love to something we're (most of us) all skeptical of isn't the best of ideas.

What I meant by saying that is that it's not a format that has been played competitively at a high level (and never will be with your/PBL's current plan).

That's not at all what the vlog came off as. Regardless of your intent (which a very small fraction of your youtube audience will see), the vlog came off as a "we need to do this as a community together" type thing. The fact that you tell users actively that you think UGC 6s is something they should support shows just how disconnected you are from the community you claim to represent.

At this point it honestly (and this might seem harsh) seems like you're desperately clinging to the notion that this will work out in a way that Valve accepts it and it becomes big and you're able to make this league a big thing that you're able to work with full time. And to claim this last bit of hope you have to make tf2 a "real esport" or whatever you're willing to destroy what this fantastic community has built up over the past 6 years.

And you can say "you do your thing" all you want to save face on the forums that a few hundred people read but that means literally nothing when you just made a vlog for your 100,000+ youtube subscribers denouncing 6v6 and supporting a new, unproven format in a foreign game mode.

I'm really appreciative of all you've done for this community. You (along with Salamancer) were one of the driving recruiters for competitive back when I started playing, and you convinced me to hop on a 6s team in late 2012. But sometimes it's good to know when your goals are fogging up your view of the present and tampering with your ability to see a reasonable future ahead, especially when your view has so much influence on the view of others.

34 / 64 slots taken

Signups close at midnight tonight (roughly two hours from now). Either me or another admin will add you later tonight/ tomorrow to get info out to you. Please share this info if you know of friends that were planning on playing in the tournament.

Edit: here's a video in which I go into detail about my thoughts on extv/pbl's decision not to support 6s:

http://youtu.be/5-1pna1QE0A

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Original reply:

I love that you're trying to grow this community with change and whatnot but (as I've made clear in talking to you) some of your points are just straight up flawed, and I feel like the community needs to hear a less one-sided vlog from the most known competitive TF2 org.

That's because the "meta" they're trying to implement is fucking stupid. Pub tf2 is fun sure, but any competitive format that plays with the "meta" (see: random silliness and stupidity) will be taken seriously by no one, valve included. People will say "wow, the competitive community is finally allowing unlocks and letting me run minisentry engie to mid oh boy!" and then realize how fucking stupid it is after playing with it for a week.

Because that version of tf2 is the one we can play 5 nights a week 3 hours a night without having fucking aneurysms and killing ourselves.

You say right after this "some people don't like playing against gimmicky things". The people that don't like playing against these things are the people that actually play the game. It's pretty ignorant imo to expect people to play against things that make the game not fun just so that a few new people try it out (and eventually decide that it isn't fun too).

Did you hear yourself say that? There is no downside to running GRU on heavy over stock. You run with it during rollout and don't switch when you're at mid and you get to mid with your team for no downsides. Which makes it OP.

This works with mobas because you set up your class structure at the beginning of the game and you don't change it. To do this in tf2 would be to break the so called "meta" valve is striving for. And to enable class/ weapon swaps during the game with an open whitelist (minus a few unlocks) will be broken.

But they haven't. That's like saying just because football goes by the same rules every game that you've seen it all already. Sure you've seen passes, runs, etc but you'll never see the same combination throughout the game. People ignorant to football might say "this is stupid it's the same thing over and over" but those people just don't understand how the game works.

In that it's not a competitive form of tf2 (in it's current and foreseeable state). I've played in them and I think they're fun to play, but only in a casual setting. The moment you present rewards for winning you better believe you'll be seeing terrible, boring, stalemate-y games. The meta will revolve around abusing the broken weapons valve doesn't fix and constantly switching gimmicky weapons. It doesn't take some super theorycrafter to realize this, it's pretty obvious honestly.

This is what I've said about A:R the whole time. In trying to make the competitive game more like "valve's game" or whatever, we've gotten to a point where we're playing a gamemode that doesn't even exist in the game. (????)

Then you go on a tangent about items and whatnot that has nothing to do with A:R that a lot of people (including me) agree with.

Except it's not. With normal pugs, you know from the start what you'll be playing and what your team will need. In A:R pugs (and I've experienced this), you have no clue what will be banned until after you pick your teams and then it's up in the air who's playing what class/loadout when. It can lead to some pretty unfun games.

Okay... why?

WHY WOULD YOU WANT THAT? There are people that have devoted 1000s of hours to this game why the FUCK would you want random shitters to replace them? I'm sure your youtube audience loves to hear that, but like... that just sounds like a really stupid idea. You can do the local thing with good players...

Then do that. There's no reason you have to switch the entire structure of competitive tf2 so you can have your 20-person burnsider lan.

You think that, and the people that you've convinced at PBL think that. The vague "we" seems pretty tough considering you're talking to a huge audience. I know people that do casting things in extv that don't even think that, so the generic "we" is pretty odd.

Why don't you just trust the format that boasts one of the most sustainable competitive game out there? Not many competitive scenes as big as the 6v6 one can say that they're as large as we are today. That's because this game is awesome and unique and constant and loved by thousands of people.

I need to head out right now but I'll respond to the rest of the video when I get back and also share some closing thoughts.

obligatory page 69 photobooth with bae

http://i.imgur.com/ollX34D.png

it doesn't really inspire confidence when you post a link to what you did right before ending 1.6 and source saying it's similar to that.

seriously wtf

Bump. RIP Lil Sockingtons.

I'd love to start this season. Already paid.

This is literally the stupidest thing I've ever read on tftv. Actually stupider than when you mined bit coins. Stupider than the dragon dildo thread. It's that stupid. Yup.

To start,

This seems almost ignorant.

• The time between LAN and this new (closer and stupider) cut off date is less than a month, not more. (LAN ended December 7, cutoff for determining divisions now the 5th.
  
• Even if it weren't, a bunch of teams (see: nearly all of them) take a week break after LAN. It's a time where a lot of players (including those that didn't go to lan) take a little break.
  
• Even if THAT weren't a thing, Christmas is a thing. Hanukkah and kwanzaa are things. I'm visiting family right now (just like a lot of other people). It's hard to account for 6 people and have them all pay up during the holiday season, especially if you aren't scrimming regularly.
  
• Even if THAT weren't a thing, people are now not wanting to pay in for fear of playing in a single shitty division rather than 3 decent ones.

No one wants this. You're doing this as a scare-tactic to get people paid up. You aren't fooling anyone. If this is how you legitimately feel, then I'm actually terrified of the fact that you're in charge of anything. You guys did yourselves a big blow a year ago with the bitcoin/ CEVO fiasco. Not only should it have never happened, but the way ESEA handled it was laughable at best. This isn't how you get the business back from the CEVO players that can't play there anymore.

Literally so many stupid decisions that it hurts to read and know that this is the best organization for NA TF2.

I paid up in ESEA earlier today, I've been working on getting a roster together to play with in open. This makes it incredibly difficult for me as a leader, as people are now questioning whether or not they want to play in ESEA because of this. So now I have to work on my roster more, and I have less time to do it. Literally no sense.

It's a shame star's not playing this time. The best part last tourney was watching him stonecold kill everything because no one else plays tf2. I'll be watching these though :)