bump to sub in low invite/high adv

Results (Please keep in mind it's how they look this year --> Aaron Rodgers):

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/559560442498777117/933548576972345364/unknown.png?width=667&height=463

https://www.twitch.tv/terywj
Tery and I streaming rating the SEXIEST QBS live on stream RIGHT NOW.

Awesome friend, good teammate, and great player pick him up :)!

Actually a beast and deserves a good team, has been on the grind for quite some time.

https://youtu.be/iWY_LpQN2XI

Bump s8

Certified owner

Legend

Calling someone a pedophile is a pretty serious accusation so if you have any evidence of that being the case you should prove it. For your first paragraph, I just explained to you how are policy is consistent with what players place as teams rather than complete individual "skill" (this takes again, 95% of the bias out of class restrictions, we still take other stuff into account though), yet I guess that means nothing, and even then, I admitted that we are trying to move to lighter restrictions in advanced/main. For the IM scout thing, yeah we missed that initially but I went back and corrected it as soon as you joined the roster so no harm was done there, as for Zaboomafoo, if your talking about last season, it's probably due to how we place teams. We go off of average player rating, where the the top 5 player ratings are averaged to make the team rating. As for y'all in Main, you were restricted because you won main in season 1, and Zaboomafoo had not. Also yeah, let's let playoffs invite demo and soldier Dingo play in advanced so a singular team can live, yeah, no.

Agreed on both posts, I think most of the skill disparity issue has been solved by more divs, and the RGL is still in the transition of phasing out extreme sandbagging rules. I also think circlejerks contributed to why it was so hard to move up, people seem slightly more willing to explore other options but overall yeah the discord thing is just a shift in TF2 "culture" (lol).

Taking this moment to mention that Tery is a TF2 GOAT.

I don't think getting repeatedly stomped by sandbaggers is particularly enjoyable lol. Sure, someone who is on a mid main/advanced team or something along those lines might learn a lot, but somebody on a low main team who doesn't deserve to be forced back into IM will likely learn nothing. I agree it sets some sort of bar but I really don't think there is this wholistic benefit from being shat on, like you immediately see the light of how to play tf2 better or whatever. Obviously it takes time, sandbaggers serve a somewhat positive purpose, but competition wise some players may be completely demotivated or see it as unfair (aka the time in ESEA where SLEMNISH PLAYED IM).

For your second point, obviously you do not know that team very well lmfao, from what I understand Yumyum was a giant part of how that team even operated, and consistently came through with giant plays game in and game out. So no, I don't think scarfs and legit would have done better in his position, and Yumyum absolutely deserves to be class restricted in advanced. Fygg was restricted off of demo because he won advanced on the class, this was part of RGL's policy to try and get those players to play invite, btw air is good but his demo is not SIGNIFICANTLY better than fygg's idk what your on about with that, also air has been in advanced for like 5 seasons and never gotten about 4th. Safrix was not restricted because he never played on a team as demo in playoffs invite (he played soldier). It worked out because he played demo in advanced anyway, but I think you think our policy is completely set in stone (it's not), at least from this season's restrictions and on we try and look at relative player skill when we can/understand.

Carried by playoffs invite and LAN scout JM.

I would contribute the skill gap in advanced and main more to the lack of resources to learn the game, as well as teams not living for more than one season than class restrictions. They definitely still play a role, but I don't think it is significant. For class restrictions I think it can be a two-way street, I think too many restrictions as well as too little restrictions contribute somewhat to a skill gap, but again, I don't think it would be that big of an issue if teams actually stuck together or if there were more valuable resources to learn the game. Resources are hard to make because so many different situations come up, and it isn't always entirely resourceful to watch invite demos, for example, where the pace of the game is so much faster than it is in main, you really have to work your way up in terms of skill level. I will say that RGL looks at class restriction (at least now) from a team-based level, where people are more likely to get restricted if they start stacking rosters or if they are a high invite player playing in advanced. For example, to let a team that has won advanced on 3-4 different classes go unrestricted would be somewhat unfair, maybe not as stringent as we have been but situations like that will see some sort of restriction. I 100% understand being more lax in Main, as I said I think as Advanced gets better less class restrictions will exist in Main, but for IM, AM, and NC restrictions will probably stay relatively as strict, as to why I stand by my "way more important" wording.

For your last point, did you really just call yumyum, someone who is solidly bubble invite playoffs (5th place), low invite? They're in a completely different situation from scarfs and legit, who played on low invite teams portland (5-13, 8th place) and HR Team (-1-18, last place) respectfully. The system we have in place isn't 100% fullproof or without flaws but I would say it is fairly consistent in terms of: Teams that have won a division, and players that have almost made invite playoffs.

I would say that restrictions are WAY more important for lower divs than they are for upper divs. The problem with ESEA is that there was literally 0 rules for sandbagging just around until it's bitter end. I think what RGL went way too hard with the restrictions at first and we're now starting to lax way more (justifiably). The only judgement that RGL goes off of is past league history and status (this eliminates a majority of the subjectiveness), generally players that win a division aren't allowed back on that class in the same division (this goes mostly for teams that get top 3 in general). However, especially for advanced this season, the skill level has risen a lot and invite has a constant amount of players flowing towards it, as well as a renewed mentality on not hemorrhaging skill in the div below invite, are contributing to a greater effect that will likely trickle down to Main at some point. I don't see it going farther than that though, we really prioritize protecting the lower divs because one or two out of place players can shake up the entirety of the standings, where as in advanced one good player is way easier to deal with.

I agree with your pretty much on all of this. I will say that there is a backend RGL "skill" rating for each player that is updated periodically (I can see the validity of this being public but it could cause some issues for players that don't like their rating lol, though I agree that the scale itself should be public), I will also say that sometimes things slip through admins hands and I hate that, but it's really a direct result of there being so much to do as an individual admin. As for the rules, I meant to go through them and try a somewhat comprehensive rewrite but school started so I ran out of time. That being said, admins rarely ever decide stuff on their own and talk to the rest of us if they are having trouble or need advice. Restrictions are something that have recently been relaxed especially in advanced, we're really trying to refine them and make them fair for the all the divs, but sometimes restrictions come in late and that is nothing but our fault alone.

The idea originally is that we want to offer fair compensation for a committed dev. From what I understand, it's the workload on top of the time commitment that Sigafoo/Aad have to give to teach new people the ropes of the website, and then retaining said people for a productive amount of time. Also now that I think about it, the only repeat offenses that should be automatically penalized are forfeits and demo checks, otherwise (for the most part), player conduct bans, other investigations, etc. contribute much more in the grand scheme of things, though I'm sure if demo checks ever get automated that system would be put into place as well.

Scaled up penalties and repeat offenses do not take a lot of time anyway, what takes a majority of the time is specific cases that are not within a certain rule (match fixing, ringer disputes, etc.). For cost? I have absolutely no idea, that isn't my expertise, I leave that stuff up to Sigafoo and Exa who are more than capable to manage that stuff. As for dev availability, that has never been the main issue, getting the right person/people to dev it is obvious, but finding someone who would do a bunch of work for free is another thing. If those people exist and want to work on RGL development for free, they should at the very least fill out the application form if not message an admin about their interest. I'll try and see thoughts on increased web dev presence in RGL, I understand the league had trouble with that in the past.