Agreed on both posts, I think most of the skill disparity issue has been solved by more divs, and the RGL is still in the transition of phasing out extreme sandbagging rules. I also think circlejerks contributed to why it was so hard to move up, people seem slightly more willing to explore other options but overall yeah the discord thing is just a shift in TF2 "culture" (lol).

Taking this moment to mention that Tery is a TF2 GOAT.

I don't think getting repeatedly stomped by sandbaggers is particularly enjoyable lol. Sure, someone who is on a mid main/advanced team or something along those lines might learn a lot, but somebody on a low main team who doesn't deserve to be forced back into IM will likely learn nothing. I agree it sets some sort of bar but I really don't think there is this wholistic benefit from being shat on, like you immediately see the light of how to play tf2 better or whatever. Obviously it takes time, sandbaggers serve a somewhat positive purpose, but competition wise some players may be completely demotivated or see it as unfair (aka the time in ESEA where SLEMNISH PLAYED IM).

For your second point, obviously you do not know that team very well lmfao, from what I understand Yumyum was a giant part of how that team even operated, and consistently came through with giant plays game in and game out. So no, I don't think scarfs and legit would have done better in his position, and Yumyum absolutely deserves to be class restricted in advanced. Fygg was restricted off of demo because he won advanced on the class, this was part of RGL's policy to try and get those players to play invite, btw air is good but his demo is not SIGNIFICANTLY better than fygg's idk what your on about with that, also air has been in advanced for like 5 seasons and never gotten about 4th. Safrix was not restricted because he never played on a team as demo in playoffs invite (he played soldier). It worked out because he played demo in advanced anyway, but I think you think our policy is completely set in stone (it's not), at least from this season's restrictions and on we try and look at relative player skill when we can/understand.

Carried by playoffs invite and LAN scout JM.

I would contribute the skill gap in advanced and main more to the lack of resources to learn the game, as well as teams not living for more than one season than class restrictions. They definitely still play a role, but I don't think it is significant. For class restrictions I think it can be a two-way street, I think too many restrictions as well as too little restrictions contribute somewhat to a skill gap, but again, I don't think it would be that big of an issue if teams actually stuck together or if there were more valuable resources to learn the game. Resources are hard to make because so many different situations come up, and it isn't always entirely resourceful to watch invite demos, for example, where the pace of the game is so much faster than it is in main, you really have to work your way up in terms of skill level. I will say that RGL looks at class restriction (at least now) from a team-based level, where people are more likely to get restricted if they start stacking rosters or if they are a high invite player playing in advanced. For example, to let a team that has won advanced on 3-4 different classes go unrestricted would be somewhat unfair, maybe not as stringent as we have been but situations like that will see some sort of restriction. I 100% understand being more lax in Main, as I said I think as Advanced gets better less class restrictions will exist in Main, but for IM, AM, and NC restrictions will probably stay relatively as strict, as to why I stand by my "way more important" wording.

For your last point, did you really just call yumyum, someone who is solidly bubble invite playoffs (5th place), low invite? They're in a completely different situation from scarfs and legit, who played on low invite teams portland (5-13, 8th place) and HR Team (-1-18, last place) respectfully. The system we have in place isn't 100% fullproof or without flaws but I would say it is fairly consistent in terms of: Teams that have won a division, and players that have almost made invite playoffs.

I would say that restrictions are WAY more important for lower divs than they are for upper divs. The problem with ESEA is that there was literally 0 rules for sandbagging just around until it's bitter end. I think what RGL went way too hard with the restrictions at first and we're now starting to lax way more (justifiably). The only judgement that RGL goes off of is past league history and status (this eliminates a majority of the subjectiveness), generally players that win a division aren't allowed back on that class in the same division (this goes mostly for teams that get top 3 in general). However, especially for advanced this season, the skill level has risen a lot and invite has a constant amount of players flowing towards it, as well as a renewed mentality on not hemorrhaging skill in the div below invite, are contributing to a greater effect that will likely trickle down to Main at some point. I don't see it going farther than that though, we really prioritize protecting the lower divs because one or two out of place players can shake up the entirety of the standings, where as in advanced one good player is way easier to deal with.

I agree with your pretty much on all of this. I will say that there is a backend RGL "skill" rating for each player that is updated periodically (I can see the validity of this being public but it could cause some issues for players that don't like their rating lol, though I agree that the scale itself should be public), I will also say that sometimes things slip through admins hands and I hate that, but it's really a direct result of there being so much to do as an individual admin. As for the rules, I meant to go through them and try a somewhat comprehensive rewrite but school started so I ran out of time. That being said, admins rarely ever decide stuff on their own and talk to the rest of us if they are having trouble or need advice. Restrictions are something that have recently been relaxed especially in advanced, we're really trying to refine them and make them fair for the all the divs, but sometimes restrictions come in late and that is nothing but our fault alone.

The idea originally is that we want to offer fair compensation for a committed dev. From what I understand, it's the workload on top of the time commitment that Sigafoo/Aad have to give to teach new people the ropes of the website, and then retaining said people for a productive amount of time. Also now that I think about it, the only repeat offenses that should be automatically penalized are forfeits and demo checks, otherwise (for the most part), player conduct bans, other investigations, etc. contribute much more in the grand scheme of things, though I'm sure if demo checks ever get automated that system would be put into place as well.

Scaled up penalties and repeat offenses do not take a lot of time anyway, what takes a majority of the time is specific cases that are not within a certain rule (match fixing, ringer disputes, etc.). For cost? I have absolutely no idea, that isn't my expertise, I leave that stuff up to Sigafoo and Exa who are more than capable to manage that stuff. As for dev availability, that has never been the main issue, getting the right person/people to dev it is obvious, but finding someone who would do a bunch of work for free is another thing. If those people exist and want to work on RGL development for free, they should at the very least fill out the application form if not message an admin about their interest. I'll try and see thoughts on increased web dev presence in RGL, I understand the league had trouble with that in the past.

What would be the point of having admins if there is 0 interpretation? This is literally the reason why admins exist is to have interpretation and say in fixed rules. Given RGLs history with set rules, don't you think it would be better for admins to be necessitated to assess these rules and situations on a case-by-case basis (especially when we fuck up)? Main stay rules as well as admin discretion, feedback, adjustment, etc. are necessary for the league to operate at all. I will say that the lack of give/assessing/patience in cases has fucked RGL in the past, so having a system automatically give people penalties for shit that may not even be in their control would be a mess in code (how do you code for every situation?) and logistically (how can we fairly interpret outcomes?). I will say the staff we have now are adjusting rules to be more specific or be more lenient as there are more cases of "x" things that happen. We've all played the game and never want to punish anyone if they don't truly deserve it.

I absolutely agree with investing with the development of systems. This is something that we want to take into consideration, if people don't want a large prizepool, to instead invest that money into the development of the website, match servers, etc.. I will say that the lack of automation on the RGL website (imo) takes up a lot of time as an admin, for example, it is extremely painful to do demo checks especially in the lower divs of 30+ teams, where randomizing and going through each match/player is tumultuous. We've talked about several things as admins that could lighten the workload recently, it's really just about putting the stuff in writing into action.

No need fork, no need knife, rip and tear meat with hand/teeth, then swallow.

Bump, picked up Rave! Looking for more soldiers (both roles).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnAm-Z6E1Bg&ab_channel=zanda
Shoutouts to Zanda again was a fun season :).

Paul is holding me hostage to make a team again because he is bored. I would be willing to play soldier depending on who we can pick up :)

Scout: Zanda
Scout: Pauly
Soldier: Bumbo (beast)
Soldier: Scream
Demoman: Sleepy (not getting cut this time)
Medic: Fridge

Looking to play low invite or top advanced.
Add me on Steam or message me on Discord at Scream#4249 if interested!

MATCHES ARE OUT HAVE FUN AND PLAY THOSE MAPS

The cup officially starts tomorrow at 8:00 PM est. Please make sure you have 5 players on your roster by 2:00 PM est, this way we are given ample time to send out matches an hour or so before the start time. Also, PLEASE make sure to view the golden cap rules, as they are different for this cup. I will paste them here, but they can also be found in the article and in the match comms.

Lastly, team div placements are mostly final, please let us know ASAP if you have any questions. GLHF

Maybe not the best idea to post on a form where 90% of the average viewer base is full of higher-level players or does not know you. Just a tip for next time. (Also if you're going to apologize it would probably be better if you said it to the people you actually offended, it's a lot more personable, while this can come off as trying to get people off of your ass, though I'm not sure whether you've done that or not.)

https://clips.twitch.tv/PrettyHelplessSandstormMau5-SKYl-aTZAMR7Ot5m

Deserves high advanced