Alright that's all fine and dandy, but how does it make them any more moral or better then any other person? Especially with all of the other fucked up shit going on in this world. If the animal cruelty hill is the one you want to stand on go for it, but it doesn't make you any better or any worse then any of the other 7 billion people with their own moral hills.

Uhhh no. Good for them, they want animals to be treated more fairly, now about the literal billion + people on this planet that are in almost worse conditions then the average cow. Go do something for those people and yes you can take moral high ground, but I dont see many people doing anything.

Edit: Holy fuck those are some biased and leading questions.

No, just no. We do not need to go down this road again.

He based it off of the fact that I ran them. I called him a fucking idiot more then once for... uh, obvious reasons, and now like saam, anything that I am associated with is automatically toxic and bad for the game.

Fucking ban me, you wont.

You have clearly misconstrued my point so I will try and make it more clear.

The amount of points or objectives the map or game mode has in it has zero to do with what I am talking about. It could be a single cap point or it could be a DOM game with 30 caps, the number does not matter. All I am talking about is how the base game flows, and in CS, much like KOTH it is have better aim then the other dudes. Now this is not an accurate statement because all of TF2 is just have better aim and you will win more fights, but the way KOTH presents itself makes it much more action oriented then 5cp is.

My point also was not that KOTH is a better game mode to play, my point was that KOTH gives a better spectator experience then 5cp does, and because of that it is objectively a better game mode to stream and produce for, nothing more than that.

The basic rules of 5cp are very hard for new people to understand, you don't see it because you have been playing them for a long time but understanding ammo management, buffs, uber management and positioning are all very complex game mechanics that people that do not play will not get. Now add the fact that there are two locations that you need to watch. KOTH on the other hand presents itself as shoot the other guys until they die and you get the point, no stalemates because of the round timer. The action keeps up and it is easier to follow because there are no flanks, but at the same time there is a large complexity as to the positioning of players and how to play around advantages. I am not going to argue about koth vs. 5cp for what is more complex because that is a waste of time. At low levels koth is a DM fest and at high levels KOTH is the most strat oriented map.

Just want to point out that the most successful esport when it comes to viewer numbers (cs:go) is exactly that. Easy to understand DM for new people with a lot of underlying strats and complexity that you have to be better to understand. In this sense KOTH would objectively be the best option if we are trying to present TF2 as a streamable and marketable game. Might not be the most fun for the players but it would be a easier viewer experience.

The fuck is going on in this thread?

@11

So here is the thing, it is 100% possible to defend both points with rotations as proved by Mihalys Flow and pyyyour with their iron man strat in season 11. Saying that you have to hold a single point is a large part of the problem when it comes to people not liking gpit. People just don't want to put effort into thinking outside the box for stuff. Another example is the tiger forward hold on C. Doing it totally changes the dynamic of the map and how it plays. I fully believe that gpit is a map that has many ways it can be played, but very few people actually put any thought into how it can be played, and saying that its a bad map just because people are too lazy to use their brain for once it not an good reason.

Is gpit perfect? God fucking no, it has its own issues. But is it better then metal or grans that we have in rotation right now? Quite possible, or if not better it is at least on par.

Literally the only point that mason made that is valid is the fact that its a big map and a single push can win it. The rest are subjective or totally useless. As I have been saying for literally years, gpit is a map we need to bring back into thr map pool because of how it plays and the thinking it forces teams to do.

Welp, thats kinda shitty. Sorry you cant play against us, its going to be a good game.

Just make it Blight and be done with it. Both are shit.

I can respect that.

You are just going to prem code your way through the entire season aren't you?

NOPE, NOT DOING DOUBLE MED DOUBLE DEMO AGAIN.