Sorry

flynn_ is RRP is

I guess I forgot to specify that reverse is only for low speeds, such as a stop sign that you are slowly sliding through (Note, already sliding, not causing one) I'd rather risk losing a transmission than a life in that case. That is my bad, and I will edit it. I would never put a vehicle into reverse on the highway. FYI my driving instructor was my primary resource on this one.

But you seem to not understand that I said to learn your vehicle so you can know when and where you might be able to do more than just let go and give up. Not every situatiom is rectifiable by using the throttle, but sometimes it can be. Know your vehicle so that you can at least have some sort of advantage when it comes to losing control.

Please recall the context:

I was basically saying that you need to understand the cause of the slide, and the appropriate response. Also, controlling the throttle doesn't mean to always apply it, it means to know what needs to be done with it. Letting off until control is regained on throttle induced slides, or potentially adding a bit on braking induced slides.

Now let's just stop beating this horse, I know you have a fair understanding of what you are talking about, and I have more than you seem to want to think. But being tired makes it even more difficult for me to communicate my thoughts than it usually is.

I'm not going to disagree with you that releasing the throttle is more often than not the best bet for those who lack an understanding of how their vehicle responds, but knowing when and how to apply throttle allows for better control than completely releasing the throttle.

I don't understand how you say I'm so wrong though.. I was not referring to recovering from a throttle-induced slide by using more throttle. That would be just stupid. If you have lost static friction (AKA started sliding) then there is nothing causing your wheels to rotate at the required speed to resume a correct roll. Carefully controlling the throttle and steering into the slide can allow you to minimize your losses or at least control the sliding wheels enough to regain static friction.

At the very least, you can utilize the much weaker forces provided by kinetic friction to at least have a chance of guiding the vehicle slightly. (this works, I literally just went out and did such)

The jarring I refer to is not a jarring transferred to the driver, but a disparity between the engine's desired rotational acceleration due to throttle control, and the effect of friction acting upon the wheels (and thusly the engine). reduced frictional forces caused by icy conditions means that releasing the throttle entirely is in fact asking more of the tires than the given coefficient of friction will allow. AKA lift-off sliding. Just as possible as sliding because of too much throttle.

I don't want to go into a thorough physics lecture an/or debate over the various nits that are to be picked upon by both sides, so I'll just let it remain at the more simple and easier to understand; let off if you slide and don't know how to recover properly.

TL:DR Know your vehicle, and learn what works (using safe controlled conditions). If in doubt, yes, let off the throttle

Please understand that I am in no way advocating against the us of 4x4. I agree that it is the best option for winter driving. What I am against, is people thinking that it suddenly makes them invincible.
Driver error (under/oversteer) is caused by a lack of familiarity with the conditions, that includes a lack of familiarity with how the vehicle behaves. Let's be honest, nobody is perfect; if we all were, how would we have the experience to know what causes the vehicle to lose/regain/maintain control?

Releasing the throttle completely reverses the direction of force between the tires and the road, thus engine braking; the engine is attempting to slow down while the momentum of the vehicle (via friction at the tires) causes it to retain it's speed/speed up. This can most definitely upset the performance of the vehicle when this reversal of force goes beyond what the tires are capable of providing for traction.

On dry paveent you might not experience lift-throttle under/oversteer, but in icy conditions it can be the difference between going into the ditch or not. Plus, the more power a vehicle makes, the greater the upset is between throttle on and off.

Case in point, FWD - Oversteering occurs:
Releasing the throttle in a FWD will cause weight transfer forward (decreasing rear traction and stability) and if the driving is steering into the slide, will cause the front tires to push back and increase the rate at which the vehicle spins. Increasing throttle slightly while steering into the slide will most likely help the driver regain control by both shifting weight to the rear , and by helping pull the nose of the car in line with where you want to go.

Basically, make sure you can depend on yourself to be in control, not the vehicle and it's various options/gadgets. Makes you more aware and confident as a driver, and it is in fact cheaper and better for the vehicle in the long run.

If the front tires are pulling the front of the vehicle around the turn, then releasing the throttle can cause forceful deceleration due to both engine braking and added rotating mass in the driveline. This can cause the front end to plow forward, rather than steering in the intended direction (keeping the wheels rolling), especially in larger/older vehicles with heavy drivelines and powerful engines.

Advanced technique was just referring to knowingly using the capabilities of 4wd to your advantage, be it using the throttle to guide the nose around corners that you would normally understeer around, bringing the front end to bear when oversteer occurs, or all-out rally driving methods involving impressive 4-wheel drifts.

Basically this, but you need to know which ones are in control and how to use them to your advantage

Most vehicles are designed for a relatively desirable front-rear balance, in fact the added weight on the front of a front engined vehicle tends to cause the rearend to be even more loose around corners. Plus, extra weight is almost always undesirable when it comes to performance in good or bad conditions.

PS: I love having fun in the snow. Any chance I get, I go for a rip out in the vast empty parking lots around town. If only I could afford a set of tires :(

*PLEASE NOTE THAT I IN NO WAY ENDORSE THE (terrible) STYLISTIC DESIRES THAT RESULTED IN THIS CAR'S SAD INITIAL STATE, I AM WORKING ON RETURNING IT TO BASICALLY-STOCK CONDITION*

http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/576900_10151028253561073_9848917_n.jpg

http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/429940_10151028253251073_1265973946_n.jpg

My little ricer when I first got it <3

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1234524_10151596196016073_1432942009_n.jpg

In the process of making it look better

Gotta replace the outer taillights with stock, repaint it, and fix a few things.. Might get a stock hood, depending how the cowls look after paint.

And yes, that is a wing glued to the stock wing in the first picture

One more thing: don't trust the inside shoulder, even if it looks nice and flat. Plows tend to leave a nice flat spot on the deep snow where there is actually a ditch. I see people getting pulled into the ditch by a soft shoulder alll of the time.

True, but I used the word advanced loosely. If you understand how 4x4 works then you can use it to your advanage, but it can also cause adverse behaviour such as excessive understeer when lifting off of the throttle. This is why I suggest getting to know how your specific vehicle behaves.
I live in a town where people with large, lifted 4x4 trucks think they are invincible, and drive well above the posted speed limit in near-whiteout conditions.

I just hate the false sense of security that people get by having 4x4 (Albertan godmode)

Find a large, empty parking lot, and play for a while. Learn how your vehicle responds to input in adverse conditions.
This saved me a lot of trouble, learned to use throttle/ebrake/4x4 to control the vehicle when it lost traction.
Plus, it is a hell of a good time.

Pay attention to which wheels drive your car, if you can't make it up a hill in your front wheel drive car, try reverse.

Don't pin it to win it, and use a higher gear if you keep spinning your tires.

Winter tires are a very worthwhile investment, but they do not activate godmode on your vehicle.
You are better off to buy a new set of crappy tires than to buy a heavily worn set of high-end tires.
Better tires go up front if you have a full set of winters, otherwise the better tires go on the back.

4x4 only helps you accelerate, it doesn't help you stop or go around corners (unless using advanced techniques)

If all else fails, and you can't touch the brakes without locking your tires up, you can sometimes use reverse to slow you down more quickly *ONLY to be used as a last resort, when you're about to slide through a stop sign/light at low speeds* (yes I have done this, and it saved my ass)

GG

Looks fantastic, I'm no good at providing feedback but I really enjoy the visuals.
It's a map I would be very happy to come across while pubbing

Any neighbours who enjoy drugs/alcohol and KFC?

Because it sounds to me like you live next to my brother...

Single Canadian Waffle desires female
Desperate; Will possibly settle for pyro(if the rumours are true)

Please find me my match!