I'll make a thread complaining about your thread, and how it is damaging the competitive scene.

I just have to ask, how do people feel that this step is actually going to damage 6v6 play?

Item rebalance? Not likely going to have a negative effect on the items already allowed, and if so, not significantly. Some fixed ones may even be allowed back in after a decent testing period.

Forcing people to play highlander causes them to avoid 6v6? From what I understand, the 6s players find HL too slow-paced to enjoy themselves. So will many pubbers. They will either start looking for faster options, or go back to pubs; some gain, no loss.

Some people already in competitive might feel the need to experiment with new gameplay styles? So be it, might trim down the number of players in some of the current leagues, we could get a new league with a different set of rules; the new league might even attract more interest due to its variance from conventional rules. If it is doomed to failure, things will go back to the way they are already. Not to mention, the seeds have already been sown, and people are considering new gameplay possibilities as we speak. Sometimes it is good having people ask questions.

Valve overthrowing competitive play and instating a fascist leader with complete control over every decision, whilst forcing every league member to be their personal sex slave? More than likely going to happen. Hurry up and don your tinfoil wizard caps, light the torches, sharpen your pitchforks, and march upon the capital!

That is THE point that so many people failed to notice in the original post by Sal.. This is not a new league, or any attempt to "overthrow" the current competitive scene (whether HL or 6s) but rather a more organised, more challenging, and more useful (for Valve's dev team) form of pubbing. This comes with a benefit where people will become more aware of the competitive scene, and start asking questions. This is where the more knowledgeable competitive players come in, what if Valve were to allow a coaching system where each side could be allowed a coach in spectator mode, only allowed to watch their team? It would take maybe a season of experience in UGC/ESEA/ETF2L/CEVO to be allowed to coach. The players would learn about competitive play, while getting to actually talk to the players themselves, and the coaches could even use the opportunity to recruit promising players for their teams!

I imagine after a relatively short while, plenty of PubStars will begin climbing the ranks in PubLander and feel the need for greater challenges/rewards than PL can offer them, this is where competitive comes in. I can see a side-effect of this being that as more skilled players cross over from pubs, the pubs themselves will become less challenging for newer players, and as such lighten up the learning curve for beginners... Maybe helping keep more newcomers interested in the game we all love?

You should start a thread about how many threads there are.

I have a bit of an idea how the pick/ban system could be implemented...
Quoted from my post in the original lobby thread:

Now, I actually do have some ideas for how the lobby system could be set up. Not saying every one of these has to be followed, but I think some people might agree with some of these things..

Pick/ban
-player's choices made while waiting in the lobby, saved in settings
-rating screen similar to loadout change: pick class, get a list of available items organised by slot
-each player then picks 5 items that need nerfing and 5 that need buffing
-when the match starts, all items picked by more than one player are listed
-players rank their top three overpowered and underpowered ones
-players are only allowed to use an OP/ban item if they also have a weak one in their loadout
can't mix UP/OP items from their own picks
-players rank loadout effect after match X/5
-valve stats should note results by map
-Stock items not safe from bans
-runs risk of wasting a ban and facing broken unlocks
-all unlock items available to those who don't have them
-excitement over newly accessible item=interest
-unowned unlocks that are used more often get a higher chance of dropping for the player

Lobby waiting system
-Show current needs for classes (# of servers needing spies/snipers vs # needing solly/scout)
-choose from list what classes you want to play

Ranking
-X/5 voting by teammates
-dropout without reconnect gives an instant rank of 1 for the match
-most recent 10(?) votes count toward placement
-MVPs picked each round
-MVPs grouped together when possible
-HL lobby strange badge (counts games played total, and MVP ranks as secondary)
-random item drops scaled by rank/MVP

$2.49 Pass for access
-Tradable
-drops every X hours played
-Lobby badges and coach badges could count as the pass?
UGC/CEVO/ESEA/ETF2L league members provided special coach badges/passes
-teams rank coaches
-coach pins strange quality, carry ratings for successful coaching
-special drops for good coaching?
Separate scoring system for lobby/comp points(no trade server farming)
Spectator mode option from lobby
-spec chat separate from game chat, link at end of round
-spec votes on MVP/rank
Match logs (http://logs.tf/45234) available after round
Allow server hosts to place ads for TFTV/VTV/etc.. (they carry responsibility for possible content)

Couldn't there be servers allocated to pre-test possible item nerfs for the valve dev/balance team? Have a notice upon entering the server with the newly balanced weapons described, and they are banproofed. only players with a rating above X are allowed the option to playtest these from lobby. discussion available after for ups/downs of the balance, and how effective it was.

I've been seeing far too many negative nancies on here... If you are scared that any changes to items will effect your competitive play, remember that the servers used for competitive play can always adjust items back to what they were before the changes were made. If you think these efforts by Valve won't matter, or are going in the right direction, offer constructive criticism; I'm actually physically tired after reading this thread from seeing people just complaining that it won't work for XYZ reason. It reminds me of children who refuse to eat [insert interesting food item here] because it isn't what they are used to, and frightens them.

I may not be a competitive player, but I find competitive very interesting. I mostly watch 6v6, and I do enjoy it, but the argument that unlock usage will hinder the advancement of more skilled teams in a competitive environment seems flawed to me.. Teamwork and DM are very important factors in the competitive scene, but there is an unnecessary fear of new things it seems. I would like to see the ability to adapt get rewarded more often, and the repetition of a small group of strategies tends to prevent this. More unlocks= more strats? doesn't mean 6v6 needs to suddenly accept everything, but as updates come out and items are balanced in small groups, they could be slowly reintroduced into play as seen fit.

PS: PLEASE don't angrily nitpick numbers that people use as examples in their posts, such as "WTF 12 bans is WAY too many, there should only be 8.35318917 bans per match!!1", when they are in fact trying to convey an idea or theory; numbers can be changed pretty easily once a system is put into practice (AKA balanced).