once again, i am going to say esea is fucked up. i totally agree. but my point is everyone is turning a blind eye to cevo's past and present issues. and they tried to reboot cevo tf2 with a highlander tournament? that has NOTHING to do with us as 6's players, so they weren't even attempting to win us back with that.

LoL fizzled out because look at riot's starleague or w/e its called you have salaried players and all that shit, that never stood a chance. sc2 same thing with other leagues, even though that games dying out as well now. both of those games have no similarities whatsoever with tf2.

the whole "rep on reddit" thing is a joke too. you don't get rid of a bad reputation by telling people your reputation isnt bad anymore, you actually DO things and let word of mouth spread. you honestly think a thread on reddit made by an esea admin talking about the upcoming season wouldnt get trashed to shit and just reopen old wounds?

i'm not trying to tell people esea is perfect i'm trying to tell them cevo isn't.

HERE YOU GO MAGUS: as far as mistreatment of customers, i've been on and off with cevo for 7 years. have you ever tried to get an admin to help you out with a client issue (or any issue) in cevo? do this and then report back. but judging from your posts in this thread alone i'd probably run out of patience quickly if i was dealing with someone behaving as childlike as you.

i don't know why you're so obsessed with updating stats. would it be nice to have more detailed stats? sure. would it do anything to change the way the game is played, make people better at the game, or help the games growth overall? nope. ESEA still shows TEAM X: 5 TEAM Y: 3 and that's the only important stat.

st. patrick did something stupid in calling out the owner of a COMPANY. this is not communist russia, we do not all own a piece of the pie. esea is that man's pie, and he tried to take a piece. over the top ban? sure. EASILY avoidable? yep.

i haven't told a single person to refund their fees to cevo and go play esea. i've simply said play both if you have time, but if you don't to play esea over cevo. perhaps if you stopped stomping and shouting with your hands over your ears you would have realized this.

you do realize that cevo listening to us and cevo following through (now and in the future) are two entirely different things, yes? they have had the opportunity to be our league of choice in the past and dropped the ball. why should we give them the benefit of the doubt now?

so a $20 increase over the course of a year is a drastic increase? what happens when we as a community (you know it will happen) want a lan for the top tier teams to play? or when there's 3-4 leagues and each one wants at least a respectable prize pot (considering they're paying league fees after all) and nahanni isnt there to contribute most of it? that money doesn't just appear out of thin air.

you seem to forget that while we have league fee increases we also have to fund a lan.

and ok, no cevo anti cheat for tf2. so that means you're going to rely on vac, not have a lan, and you're offering cash prizes. do i have to spell it out for you?

? i've said before esea has had its issues, im only trying to remind people that cevo does too, and a lot of them are IDENTICAL to esea's (bad client, shitty admin support, etc).

and fox yeah i agree, big difference between esea and cevo though is that you have to go to lan to win the big boy money, whereas you get to do that from home for cevo...

also no one has addressed or even acknowledged what happens when nahanni stops giving money to the prize pot coupled with cevo trying to throw an entire lan and suddenly league fees are tripled/quadrupled/whatever.

seems most people here are airing out esea's issues and ive been addressing them all, but then dodge my questions about cevo's future..let's be reasonable here folks.

and that's great that they show promise. let's support them (if you/your team has time for two leagues) while we keep esea as our main league. 2 seasons from now if we've seen them continue to improve and build from the first season, yeah let's give it a go. i just honestly don't understand how people are saying "let's go to cevo!" when they've BEEN OUR MAIN LEAGUE before and we all left for esea. this isn't a brand new league, this is a league with a history just as sketchy as esea's.

and the only complaint being the client is "really shitty" is kind of a big deal, no? I remember fps getting raped and being unable to "check in" and start matches, and pleading with the other team to reschedule/wait/not FFW you while you waited for an admin to potentially help you with the issue. this on top of my previously mentioned blatant cheater stuff going on.

oh and i just checked, ive been playing in cevo and esea both since 2007.

wow a lot to answer. i'm not gonna bother with quotes that would be a huge wall.

synchro: was not aware of that at all. however what i'm pretty sure you're unaware of is that's happened in multiple games in cevo (see: cevo-m friend cheating to 1st place cevo-m and finishing in the money in cevo-p in cs:s)

as far as trying to gain traction, i cannot ever recall (and i think im pretty involved in the tf2 community) a cevo tournament that gained by attention. i've been around since season 8

mile: yeah i agree that the stat tracking in esea leaves a lot to be desired but would you really bail on a league for a totally "rebooted/new" league with 0 success in KEEPING players in the games they've hosted that also doesn't have a lan? cevo has had just as many if not more fuck ups as esea. why else would they "reboot?"

and about having a chance to make something better for the community: did they not have the chance to do this when they HAD OUR PLAYERBASE? cevo was our league, we left for esea. now we're flip flopping once again with the grass is greener mindset although we're now removing lan and just sort of hoping cevo doesnt say fuck you tf2 we're dropping you as a game/gonna charge you more than esea did for league fees/etc

i do appreciate the attack on my ability to schedule matches and get 5 other people whom i have no direct control of online though, classy and relevant to the discussion.

seriously though, mile, what would your reaction be to a steep hike in league fees when they go up to fund lan/cevo no longer has community members kicking in thousands of dollars to the prize pot? what happens when the client (as is going to happen in any game in any league) crashes because of some retarded update and matches are postponed?

yeah two leagues is a pretty big time commitment. however, how are people gonna feel when esea upgrades their stat system, and then cevo starts asking for more money (than they are now, and than esea is now) because a)nihanni isnt chipping in a few thousand and b) there's a lan they have to fund.

choose your own adventure: answer my question as to why we left cevo and they never attempted to get us back until now, or show me some proof cevo will long term be better than esea while still providing everything we get with esea now.

is the bar below or above paying league fees with e-checks instead of paypal level?

cevo should be the backup to esea. do both leagues, go nuts, but use your backups in cevo. this gives your team a chance to play with its backups and get some chemistry with them, and also lets them actually play matches instead of gettin sore ass cheeks ridin the pine all season.

until cevo actually proves itself to consistently be a superior league, it should be treated as such.

this isn't a rant trying to convince teams to bail on cevo, i'm trying to promote people to do BOTH if they want to give cevo a chance, not just blindly give them 100% confidence they will be better than esea which, issues aside, is an established tf2 league that isn't going anywhere as long as we continue to play.

also, i actually played in both leagues for years when i was in cs:s. i played cevo-a (open), cevo-m, and the cevo-p placement tourney (mighta been the cal-i placement tourney cant remember, i'm old) as well as esea-o/im/maybe main. i've also played in cevo tournaments for dota2 and possibly other games i'm forgetting. i am speaking from experience.

anyone with some solid proof that cevo is going to match/exceed esea please share.

oh, and i know OP was long as fuck but lets try to avoid the walls of text that a lot of people just skim over. we can keep posts short and sweet for this thread/discussion.

tired of people acting like cevo is this brand new league that popped up outta nowhere and is amazing.

STOP pretending cevo is going to be this godly league where everything's perfect and make esea look like shit. cevo's been around FOREVER and no one ever played there. it took ESEA making a fucking bitcoin miner for people to even CONSIDER making cevo our main league.

also let's realize that cevo might try their fucking balls off the first season of tf2 to get the majority chunk of 6's players from esea (in turn esea drops tf2) and then stop giving a fuck because they now run tf2 6's and there's no longer another option for serious 6's players.

CEVO has never been the go-to league for any popular competitive fps game. ever. this is NOT because it is a well-oiled machine churning out perfect season after perfect season and we're all just masochists. it has had its share of issues too, it's godawful client/bad admins being the ones that stick out the most to me (and lack of lan for what was once a $10,000 prize pot for cs:s cevo-p...awful tempting to toggle those walls on for that last round to decide who walks away with that nice little payday).

esea is fucked up, i agree. but, they have more incentive than ANY previous season to keep its player base happy this season and in future seasons with cevo trying to take over tf2 (which could hurt esea further if cevo does an excellent job and we all sing their praises to comp. players in other games).

wanna do both leagues? go for it. but don't jump ship on esea because cevo promised you their grass is WAY greener than esea's.

wasn't cevo at one point the go to league for tf2? i remember seeing youtube vids of the top players in cevo-p matches. how'd they lose our business? did they not meet/exceed what esea said they'd give us? why not? why would that change now? why have they made ZERO attempts at gaining us back?

finally, here's my question for all of you who want to bail on esea: if esea never had the bitcoin scandal, would the thought of bailing on esea and switching to cevo ever crossed your mind?

(yes, i know brad, you totally would have switched. sorry your retarded teammates paid for things with e-checks; paypal is hard.)

i know people who blatantly cheated their way to a cevo-m 1st place finish and finished in the money in cevo-p in cs:s (: both leagues will have their issues. cevo is currently unproven as a "good" league, and no popular game has ever chosen cevo as their go-to league. they've dropped the ball just as many times as esea but people don't know about it because it's never been a publicized/popular league.

please please please dont forget how badly cevo has dropped the ball in the past. this is a grass is greener scenario folks. both leagues will have fucked up retarded shit that you hate about them, but at least with esea we have lan, amongst other things.

ya yppah has some good stuff, recently stumbled on d. song by them and its amazing

www.youtube.com/watch?v=80YMJ_7EeHc&hd=1