hey guys i give a shit about a healthy community and i'm 2-28 in invite

based off of the fact that ive only seen woodpig scrimming against invite (and doing well on top of that) i vote for them. they'll be a solid middle of the pack team imo.

yeah thank god you didn't take the ~2 minutes it would've taken to do the math for league fees+premiums before posting you were absolutely certain, would've ruined the surprise.

and that's fine, i'm not asking the people who aren't interested in esea regardless of cevos existence or not. i'm talking about the existing playerbase in esea. from my personal experience and what i've seen a lot of is that teams in esea are not "low level shitlords," they're teams looking to get into the competitive scene and start the climb to the top. that's the reason they're in a pay to play league versus something like ugc. those players should be concerned with a league having a lan, as that's something that keeps the top 1% interested and the other 99 working towards something.

the math has been posted already. you are wrong.

and who's to say cevo will be any better? i would be legitimately happy if cevo was the fucking shit and dunked on esea, that would mean we'd have a pretty amazing league to play in. probably shouldn't shit on the only regular tf2 lan we have in north america without first having our new league prove itself better.

you just called xbox gamers legitimate fps players. congrats.

games. plural. maybe if you took a break from patting yourself on the back you'd have read that right. but yeah lets link insomnia, a tournament thats only big once a year and costs like $20,000 for an NA team to go to. let's do it!

are you unaware that you said not having a lan wasn't a big deal/required or a good selling point for a league?

we are one of the ONLY fps games in NA/the world that has a league with a lan for a decent cash prize. what other fps does? quake, cs:go, ???

i hate to break the news to you guys but we aren't gonna be the next LoL/dota2. sure we'll get some small growth but right now esea lans+small local lans are going to be as good as it gets for LAN tf2. why would we willingly let that go?

the great part about lan is that it's an even playing field. no dispute over what server to host finals on (so no ping advantage) everyone has good fps, and it's 100% confirmed that no one is cheating. when you put big money on the line on online events you're going to have people trying to cheat for an easy payday. without a lan all the perks of the even playing field disappear and all the drawbacks of playing from home appear.

imo support esea. cevo hasn't proven themselves as our new "go to" league, so support the league that has a lan and has been our home for ~14 seasons. if you hate it, go play cevo next season.

or, you can play cevo, maybe you like it maybe they drop the ball. esea drops tf2. if cevo drops the ball, you have no esea to return to.

i've said multiple times people should play in both if they can, but if they have to choose one league i think they should continue to support our league that has a lan and is proven.

? that's not a lan, and some small tournament prize is not going to entice someone to privately code cheats or buy privately coded cheats. winning cevo-p (ONLINE) for $10,000 just might be though...

i think in literally every single post i've made so far i've hammered home the point that i think esea is flawed as fuck but i also think cevo is, yet every single one of you has skimmed over that part or some shit. i don't think either league is perfect--i think they're both far from it. i just think we shouldnt abandon the league that over the past 15 seasons has been more stable and has a LAN, at least until the "new guy" has consistently proved himself

you all act like i want cevo to fail and for us to be stuck in the shittiest league possible, why the fuck would i want that?

IVE NEVER BEEN TO LAN FOLKS I'VE BEEN 1-15 THE PAST TWO SEASONS. NOT LIKE IM GONNA MISS WHAT IVE NEVER HAD.

oh and to all the idiots whose main argument is "bro no one wants to hear about shit from like 37 years ago"
a) it wasn't THAT long ago

b) i'm trying to say that we should remember the past in order to secure the future.

don't throw all your eggs in one basket and be shocked when that shitty basket whose handle ripped and broke all your eggs rips again. then you have no eggs. give that patched up shitty handle having basket a second chance, sure, but give that fucker like 20% of your eggs, not 100.

i like you too lange, you're a broham for sure. i'm all for cevo trying to come back and be a thing, i'd love for them to prove me wrong and shit on esea and host a lan and be the best league ive ever participated in.

i'm just worried that people are putting all their eggs into the cevo basket before its hatched. while there's talks and plans of making a sustainable league that values the voices of its players, that's every league that's been made. i want to see some consistent results and then i'd be sold on switching to cevo.

like i said before, in my opinion for now cevo should be viewed as an up and comer with potential, but that potential has to shrine through over the next 6months/year until i'd be ready to bail on the league we already have, that already has different divisions for skill levels, already has lan, is relatively cheap even WITH lan, etc. etc.

cevo has made moves like this before on other games i've played, let's see if it actually pans out/they stick with it this time.

basically, do both if you can, but imo if you can only do one support esea until cevo proves equal/superior to the former.

oh, and in regards to paladin, i'm not sold on any cevo client because of how terrible the last one was, ESPECIALLY if there's big money on the line like a cevo-p finals.

seems like he's admitting esea fucked up and was just naming a few things they've done to try and remedy the situation, while also accepting that for some people it's gone too far.

yes, and my point was esea has GIVEN US far more (mainly 13? seasons of lans) for us to WANT to trust them more than cevo. cevo lost our business, esea won out in the beginning and has been our home since. now suddenly we owe cevo our trust because esea fucked up during those 13 seasons while cevo was doing nothing to win us back.

synchro: idk why you're still arguing with me, the entire point of this thread is cevo has done just as much shady/weird shit as esea, it's just less noticeable because no one played in cevo.

the fact that theres absolutely 0 plans in the works for hosting a lan should they become the new #1 in tf2 worries me greatly.

because we've been provided with a league to play in, a lan, stats, an actual anti-cheat (lol paladin), and although mediocre still existent admin support. until you have seasons of experience with cevo under your belt you're not really in a place to comment it and all that encompasses it.