no

i hate pyro wish it would die somewhere so we can never see it against piece of shit

Awesome atmosphere for discussion so far! ;)

I'd still rather have a solider or scout at mid with me.

I dunno, I suppose you could try it... I don't think it would work, but you can try it.

Oh I'm going to discuss.

speed does not equal mobility

the medic has higher base speed than soldiers and demos and is less mobile

detonator jumps are laughable and involve the pyro trading his primary damage source (secondary) for a shit weapon

besides this does nothing to solve the fact that pyro cannot spam and has awful range

furthermore what class would you swap for a pyro ? roamer or scouts means crippling the flank and taking a shitton of heals away from the combo

pocket pyro means godawful ubers and your med getting destroyed by scouts at mid range and a basically useless combo in open areas

so no not a viable option, and it will never be unless pyro is completely reworked

Full time pyro would still be silly since scouts still easily win in a 1v1, but as a surprise strategy to mid it might work. You can't watch flanks very well as a class that can only really win close range fights.
The only real advantage to a pyro at mid is afterburn, and the ability to deny bombing soldiers. To be honest, people haven't tried running pyro to mid for a while outside of pugs, I could see it working once or twice.

I started playing 6s to get away from things like pyro, PLEASE don't bring them back

I agree that the pyro would be fast at mid, which is a bonus, but it would also be utterly useless there in most cases once the enemy arrives. Mids are big and open and favor ranged classes or fast classes aka not pyros. If the pyro stands on mid alone, he will die to whatever comes at him and can do almost nothing about it. If he is there with his demo, he can try to support the demo by airblasting, but would probably be less effective than a scout or a soldier. And let's not forget that there is now the possibility of a quickfix medic being on mid the same time as the demo and then you have a demo and a pyro attacking a fix-buffed demo and medic with an entire team incoming that will also be completely buffed.

I wouldn't run full time pyro under thosecircumstances.

I could see a fast pyro work as an ambush weapon to snipe a confirmed QF medic though. But I think an actual sniper might be the better option there.

Pyro's area of effectiveness just isn't large enough to be viable. You need people to be close to you to do damage. You would just arrive at the midfight and get destroyed in midrange. Even if you are a reflecting master you will just get shotty'd and scattergunned down. None of the secondaries are good for consistent damage except the shotty, and the other team already has the pocket who has more health and the shotgun as a secondary weapon.

I've seen it work well against inexperienced and unaware teams, but it falls short quickly.

If you have a platinum level pyro playing scout for you then maybe, just maybe it could be a good surprise tactic. Otherwise nope.

Please just no. The game has already changed enough because of the quick fix and I don't want to have to worry about teams having a full time pyro.

Why is everybody like "boohoo, not more change, evil pyro stay out of my meta"

You should be fucking happy if you see your opponent run a fulltime pyro to mid. Man up.

having a powerjack pyro means it'll get meatground HARD by any scout pair that knows what it's doing

especially since it makes you take more damage your pyro is going to soak up tons of heals late mid if he even survives that long, not to mention shit dps and at best harassing with the detonator or shotgun and having no real viable source of damage output over time

moving closer to their combo means death for you usually, the pocket will shotgun your face off or their scouts will devastate you with bullets, and 30 damage flares don't mean shit against a 300 hp soldier.

I think very few people want to see Pyro played more in 6v6.

That said, I would prefer taking a Pyro 1v1 over a Scout.

Pyro would work in the lower levels (Not ESEA) but once you put Pyro against players that know how to counter a pyro, it makes him almost useless to have. As long as your enemy doesn't know how to counter your pyro, it can be really effective.

garbage class

http://i.imgur.com/buH3ZnX.jpg

huh?

in my experience, pyro can destroy a quick-fix uber if he gets close, but you need an axtinguisher, which means you can't have the powerjack

or do you mean reflects or flares or something

.

#8 has it right, speed != mobility.

Altough the speed buff makes it more viable for certain strategies I still think it has a huge lack of mobility and won't be anything of useful at least in the common maps, unless another really tight map like gully appears which might make some kind of pyro to mid strat useful. Im not really seeeing it working any other way

I play pyro in HL at a platinum level.

I have yet to find a situation where pyro is a good option beyond defending last. Maybe it's because I'm still extremely new to 6s, but pyro is too slow, vulnerable, and has such a small range that it isn't really worth running.

Not full time, but you could do it on some mids as a surprise, or push aggressively out of some lasts. Pyro only works well when you can surprise people.

I'm gonna be honest it's more viable than people would like to admit. A group of friends and I tried running alternate class loadouts with the quick fix to really see if things change with smaller buffs/faster pacing/higher heal rate, and we were competitive against IM playoff teams even with a full time pyro and no demo.

Pyro is extremely effective when your own team is running quick fix for multiple reasons. No knock back on ubers really removes any downside to the W+M1 single uber in a choke point, denying kritz stickies and rockets is a lifesaver and stops teams from being able to run full time kritz as a counter, and capping last with airblast is also very effective especially on maps like gullywash and badlands.

I really think that any class has viability if your team really really wants to make the playstyle change happen. In the same way that scout is weak on granary and strong on viaduct, the off classes have the same variable effectiveness, and require different team dynamics. It's just that no one has really tried to explore the alternatives too much because they just want to play the same game as the top teams.

fixed that for you!!!!!!!!!!!!

Could we stop with this shit? A few months ago we were complaining about a stale meta and as soon as Valve actually does something you're all like "No no no changes please I can't deal with change". Stop it, you hypocrites.

But anyways - I've done it once in an inhouse, because I couldn't aim rockets at all (roamer). If you can be sneaky and get behind them, it can work really well - I got the med and assisted a scout 5k, but I know that if they'd been paying attention or if I'd done it again, I would have gotten shut down immediately. It can be effective, but only if you get really lucky, and his lack of mobility and range make him much weaker and less general-use than a scout or soldier.

The thing with trick plays is they only really work well once, then every now and again you can catch the enemy napping with one.

In order for this particular play to work you have to forfeit the midfight by going in 5v6, as you'll need the Pyro to use his speed to get into a ambush position to drop the other medic. Three things can easily go wrong here:

1. The rest of the team wipes out, making the Pyro's potential play useless. He can't clean up anything beyond a 1v1.

2. Either the Demo or a Scout remain up, either of which can easily wreck a Pyro with the range difference.

3. (And damnit if that post button isn't too big!) If the pyro gets caught on the rollout he's a sitting duck, the whole play revolves around him not being detected.

I think a good pyro could kill a medic with flames and reflected rockets if the combo gets caught by surprise. But if anything, that would probably work only once in a game.