#3522
PCPartPicker Part List

Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 GAMING X ATX LGA1151 Motherboard (£124.95 @ Box Limited)
Storage: Team MP34 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive (£99.95 @ Overclockers.co.uk)
Total: £224.90
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-11-29 22:07 GMT+0000
If you care about onboard sound: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/t8qhP6/msi-mpg-z390-gaming-edge-ac-atx-lga1151-motherboard-mpg-z390-gaming-edge-ac

If you want a 2 TB SSD you could still afford an Intel 660p.

#3523
Seems like a good plan.
Budget?

€250-€300 seems reasonable to me for a case + motherboard. It's cyber monday soon though so I can't really tell what the budget will be.

Yeah, just for mobo and case that's more than enough. You should be able to pick pretty much any case you like.
How small do you want to go? Mini-ITX or just µATX? GPU length?

Actually 250-300€ or the equivalent in funny medieval currency?

Also does that mean you're reusing the RAM or does it just not count towards that budget like the 3600X?

I'm not sure if mini-atx is really possible since my gfx card length is 242 mm, but if it will save space compared to micro-atx then I would prefer that.

Equivalent

Does not count towards that budget, I'm mainly concerned about the size of the computer. I'll just buy a 16 GB RAM with reasonable clock speed and price.

Why would it not be possible? Fitting the PSU and cooler is more difficult.

So roughly 2500-3000 SEK.

It's a bit weird to not count the RAM and just hope it works out in the end but you do you.

PCPartPicker Part List

Motherboard: ASRock Fatal1ty B450 Gaming-ITX/ac Mini ITX AM4 Motherboard (kr1354.00 @ CDON SE)
Case: Fractal Design Node 304 Mini ITX Tower Case (kr949.00 @ CDON SE)
Total: kr2303.00
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-11-30 23:43 CET+0100
There are quite a few options for the case.
The Raijintek Ophion would be a bit smaller but pcp doesn't list that. Ophion Evo is almost the same size as the Node 304.

The VRMs on that mobo are ok-ish, but as long as the airflow isn't completely nonexistent that should never become an issue. It's "only" a 6 core and you're not overclocking so they won't be taxed that much anyway.

Thanks Setsul, ordered these components now. Will be posting results next week hopefully :)

EDIT: results https://twitter.com/ondkaja/status/1203715674855661570

Hi, I know absolutely nothing about pcs and am looking to buy a new one. I would like to get it in a smallish case so i can transport it easily. I have a budget of around £800-1000. I would like the pc to give me good frames when playing tf2 and dota, and that i can stream without it lagging loads. Any help is much appreciated :)

Define smallish.

small enough to travel with it in a normal sized travel bag/suitcase

Define normal sized travel bag/suitcase. You could be a hobbit.

EDIT: Figured it out via Steam.

NEW PC (80 FPS)

CPU : AMD Ryzen 5 2600 Six-Core Processor, 3400 Mhz, 6 Core(s), 12 Logical Processor(s)
GPU : Radeon rx580
16 GB of RAM
MOTHER BOARD : ROG STRIX B450-F GAMING

OLD PC (170 FPS)

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6402P CPU @ 2.80GHz, 2808 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s)
GPU: Radeon RX 480 Graphics
MOTHER BOARD : MSI B150M BAZOOKA (MS-7982)
8 GB of ram

At the other house i have a 4 year old prebuilt that runs at a constant 170+.
This one can run tf2 on 80 frames in pubs and can go up to 100 ish
Im running Comanglias highest frames.
I've got the driver installed for my GPU (AMD RADEON 2020)
I had a friend build this for me so i dont understand computers all that well. How much performance i should be expecting? And Is this normal?

No, that's not normal.
Check temperatures, wouldn't be the first time someone fucked up the cooler installation.

Any additional details for the RAM? It wouldn't be that drastic but it doesn't hurt to double check that it's set to the rated/maximum frequency since something has clearly gone wrong.

when ever i play tf2 my GPU temp is always below 50 c and my cpu is at a solid 45~c. when you mean RAM are you talking about VRAM? if you are, its clocked at 2000mz i've also put -heapsize 8388608 into my start up so should be using all my ram. here are my overclock settings, are they effecting my performance? gpu & cpu = https://imgur.com/a/iB9cWpI. I have barely touched them, i pretty much rage downloaded them cause i was getting low frames, also, i have not changed anything in my bios. i've checked my monitor to see if it was plugged into my onboard graphics and its not. I've made all games run on my dedicated graphics card so my integrated graphics isnt the problem. one thing ive also found is that on my old pc, i occasionally go under 100 frames, and even when that happens the game feels fluid and looks beautiful, on this pc i can stay at a steady 100 frames and it still feels like 60 fps .
EDIT = https://imgur.com/a/PhvTbFD what it looks like in game

Does anybody know what is the worst pc specs wise that with a config can run 6v6 tf2 on any map at a steady 144 fps plus?

#3536, https://forums.tomsguide.com/threads/how-to-force-the-use-of-my-dedicated-gpu-over-the-apu.131950/. From the ingame picture it looks like your gpu isn't being utilized for most of the time (potentially why it spikes upwards in your initial description. If that doesn't fix your problem ontop of a fresh graphics driver install, it might be a hardware issue. It's reporting back 54c temp but no fan speed.

#3537
well, with some potato tweaks in the form of cfg+lower res/4:3 i squeezed by with a i5-3550 clocked to 4.2ghz w/ a gt640 and a gt630 that would be overclocked.

if youre trying to go ultra budget, the gtx670 and higher go up for sale in the used markets around me for anywhere from 20-60$ and they hold their own even nowadays.

I'm not setsul, he is better than me at this and the one to follow when/if he answers your respective questions.

#3536
No, when I say RAM I mean RAM. What's the advertised/rated speed? 2400 MHz isn't great for Ryzen.
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/September_20,_2010_Patch

That was 10 years ago. It was removed because idiots throwing random command line arguments around tended to break things.
100% fan speed at all times is certainly an interesting profile.
That CPU does not have integrated graphics so I'd be very surprised if you had managed to use a non-existant iGPU.

Is this on a fresh windows install or did you go the lazy and monumentally stupid way of just plugging in your old SSD/HDD as is?

#3537
Steady fps in tf2? I don't think so.
Otherwise see #3538. Just getting to 144 fps is possible with almost ancient hardware.

#3538
There is no iGPU in the 2600.
Turned off fan, <900 MHz, 54°C looks like normal idle state to me.

advertised speed is 2666mz --->https://www.newegg.com/team-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820331038?Description=team%20t%20force%20delta%20&cm_re=team_t_force_delta-_-20-331-038-_-Product
This is a completely fresh install of windows
I also found that my cpu only had 3 cores and 6 threads activated so i went into ryzen master and enabled them and now it shows 6 cores and 12 threads, only problem being that i cant open tf2, and only tf2, everything else is fine. I open the game and i get a dark blue screen, then my computer powers off and my gpu blinks red and white which makes me think that my cpu overheated except all the temps should be normal.
-noipx -novid -nocrashdialog -nojoy -noborder -refresh 144 -w 1920 -h 1080 +mat_forcehardwaresync 0 -useforcedmparms -noforcemaccel -noforcemspd -fullscreen +map_background preload_room -high -threads 12 -no3dex my launch settings.

Then try setting the RAM speed to 2666 in the BIOS. The motherboard manual should tell you how if you don't know. It's not guaranteed to work since that particular kit isn't explicitly listed in the supported memory list, but 2666 MHz isn't exactly awe-inspiring so it should work. Like I said not going to make much of a difference but you want to get what you paid for after all.

Fresh install is good. Did you install chipset drivers and so on as well?

Half the cores being deactivated is obviously not ideal. Did your friend do that? At least it's fixed now.

I'm not sure where the notion "more launch parameters = better" came from but it's wrong. Refresh usually either does nothing because the monitor already runs at that refresh rate or breaks things because the reason that just setting it via windows didn't work was that the monitor can't run at that refresh rate. Noborder is for windowed to make it look like fullscreen, which is obviously useless when you're using -fullscreen. And so on.
Some may make sense but for now remove them all, backup your config and run with -autoconfig.

hello all (hi setsul)

I am looking to buy a pc soon. I've been out of the game and a lot of this is new to me again, the last time I knew what I was doing was when the 3570k was still good. from a small amount of research i've come up with this build. I want to be able to easily clear tf2, apex, overwatch and similar games for 144 fps. any comments/suggestions appreciated. my budget is flexible but i'd like to keep the cost similar to what is listed.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/k8Q9wh

Some 5700 xts seem to have had driver issues for months with flickering, black screens etc. Some cards seem to be unaffected though, and some driver versions are fine. Not saying you shouldnt buy it, but something to be mindful of.

imo this has a better cooler for essentially the same price:
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/6kdrxr/gigabyte-radeon-rx-5700-xt-8-gb-gaming-oc-video-card-gv-r57xtgaming-oc-8gd

NVIDIA 2060 (super) cards have a better video encoder but less FPS in games and ray tracing cores for about the same price, so eh depends what is more important to you. Pretty sure new GPUs are coming (soonish?) - big navi, 'rtx 3000' - but these are 'rumors' of course.

I would get an inexpensive tower cooler for my CPU so it doesnt run hot and noisy all the time but it wont really affect performance much (maybe 50-250mhz if you PBO).

thanks for posting, fake. i've incorporated your suggestions and switched to a more affordable ssd: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/9NjQK4

#3542/3544
The cooler seems unnecessary unless you're trying to push the overclock very hard (in that case maybe consider the 3600X) or have some very strict noise level requirements. Even if you do want an "inexpensive" one like #3543 suggested that's more along to lines of 30$. So the upper end of inexpensive would be something like an H7 or the usual ETS-T40 suspects.
I also wouldn't do a complete 180 on the SSD. Yes, you definitely don't need one of the fastest NVMe SSDs but that doesn't mean you should go for one of the cheapest SATA SSDs. Something like a 660p should be much faster still at a fraction of the 970 Pro's price.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/2TYYRk

The RAM also isn't on the QVL but I can't be bothered to fix that right now.

In the games you've mentioned 6 cores/12 threads aren't really going to do a whole lot. If that's all you'll be using the pc for (at least all that's actually going to tax it) then getting a 9600K(F) and overclocking it (if you're willing to spend that much) or even just a 9350KF might be a better idea.

When do you plan on building it? As mentioned before new CPUs and GPUs are coming. Probably June for AMD, August for nVidia though (the big 10k$ HPC GPU in March again probably but we don't care about that) and technically Intel GPUs in March I think but considering the usual state of their drivers I wouldn't touch the first generation with a 10 foot pole.

thanks for the feedback. regarding the cpu I forgot to mention I do want to be stream capable with minimal in-game performance loss. I understand games typically only utilize 4 cores at once so I think your 9600kf suggestion is probably the better option for me because I do intend to OC as much as I can without liquid cooling.

I was planning on buying it within the next 2 weeks because I want to participate in the diabotical beta however I am willing to wait for the new stuff to come out if that means saving a good chunk of change. I have access to a game capable PC at work so I can use that in the meantime.

Well if you want to stream then either more cores would make sense for CPU encoding or a 2060 for better GPU encoding.
Realistically unless you cheap out massively on the GPU to get 8 or even 12 cores CPU encoding isn't going to beat the Turing encoder. On top of that dedicated encoding hardware guarantees negligible performance loss since you're not stealing computing power from the game engine.
As much as it pains me to say it, considering Intel and nVidia's anti-consumer antics and pricing policy, a 2060 Super + 9600KF are the better option for you right now.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/ZqxvDx

Lots of different options for the cooler, including the NH-D15. Pcpartpicker for some reason only lists the SE-AM4, which was obviously the AM4 version back when the "normal" NH-D15 didn't support AM4 yet, but claims it supports all Intel sockets as well. That's wrong, the current normal NH-D15 (not SE) is the one that supports all sockets so for an Intel socket you obviously want that one, not SE-AM4 leftovers that are only compatible with AM4. There's also the chromax.black version for 10$ more if you think the looks are worth it.

Could go higher with the RAM but we're already at the upper end of your budget range with a pretty good deal on a 2060 Super so I'll leave that up to you to adjust in the final partlist.

If you are willing to wait then yes, you'd probably save quite a bit since that is always the case. Not like it's going to halve the price but it could be 200$. On the other hand you're probably just going to get a better GPU in that case and save maybe 100$.
Anyway some information about what could/should be coming:
New Intel CPUs, max 10 cores which will push everything down a bit. Instead of 8 cores/16 threads, 8 cores/8 threads, 6c/6t, 4c/4t the new lineup will be 10c/20t, 8c/16t, 6c/12t, 4c/8t. So the price for 6 cores wouldn't change much and the frequency/performance uplift is marginal but the 9600K(F) should obviously become cheaper once there's a 10600K with twice the threads for the same price or you could get a 10350K (4c/8t) for 100$ less and not lose much compared to the 9600K(F).
New AMD GPUs may or may not be worth it if you want GPU encoding. Iirc the current Navi H265 encoder is already quite good but H264 just isn't quite there yet and twitch doesn't allow H265. Maybe with some more hardware upgrades and time for the driver to catch up the next Navi batch might actually be on the level of Maxwell/Pascal for H264 and a worthy replacement for CPU encoding. It's still almost guaranteed to be worse than Turing or even Ampere (next gen nVidia) but if it's good enough for streaming and better price/performance otherwise it could be interesting. This should be "big Navi" though, meaning the chip above the 5700 (XT). Could push prices down a bit for the 5700/2060 but unless you're looking to increase the budget in summer the new GPUs themselves will be out of your price range.
NVidia Ampere should just be about what you'd expect. Better than Turing but price accordingly unless AMD forces the prices down again (see 2060-2080 Super). We don't know which GPUs they'll release first and considering the full lineup usually takes almost a year it could be a while before the 2060's or maybe 2070's successors, the ones that are actually relevant to you, are released. The supers are fairly recent but the 2070 was the second to be released, a month after the 2080 so it should be one of the first to be replaced. On the other hand even a 2070 would be pushing it so if nVidia raises the prices once again like from 1070 to 2070 you couldn't afford a 3070. The 2060 is the most recent, not counting GTX 1600 and supers so that might take a while. Worst case if the price brackets are pushed up and you want the same performance as the 2060 at a lower price you might be looking at the successor to the GTX 1660 (Ti) which means no RT cores (although that might not matter) and an even later release date since the GTX 16 series is even more recent than the RTX 20.
Zen3 could be interesting though. With Intel still stagnating another 10-15% IPC and a bit higher clockrates might let it push past even overlocked Intel CPUs in games.

tl;dr
Most likely lower prices but you might end up with exactly the same parts, just cheaper.

so I just got a new management job, gunna be able to finance my first major gaming setup, been mostly working and playing on a 27inch imac from 2015, will probably still work on the imac but this setup should let me do some serious tf2/counterstrike streaming and be able to play comp for both with a good framerate. (plus play 2020 games and even VR half life) still deciding on a case. also getting some good soundgear, amplifier for headphones, external recording gear if I do work with consoles and a new monitor. plus a new headset (still rocking a logitech g933, also still got my M-Audio Producer USB condenser microphone, logitech g502 mouse (it is about 2 years old). For everything im getting, im paying about 160 a month.

Still just gotta go out and buy a bigger case for everything, plus I got a upgrade warranty for everything, so I can always put the old kit back together with the case it came with if something happens and get everything replaced and upgraded.

my question is should I overclock everything since I'm messing with the warranty and switching to a better case for cooling? I mean honestly I might as well get my moneys worth
Case : Fractal Define Nano S W
Processors : AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 12-Core 3.8GHz (4.6GHz TurboBoost) w/
Thermal Compound
Motherboard : Gigabyte X570 I AORUS PRO WIFI
Memory : 32GB CORSAIR VENGEANCE 3200MHz (2x16GB)
System Cooling : ORIGIN FROSTBYTE 240 Sealed Liquid Cooling System
Case Fans : ORIGIN PC High-Performance Ultra Silent Fans
Graphics Cards : NVIDIA 11GB GeForce RTX 2080 Ti Founder's Edition
Operating System : MS Windows 10 Professional
Operating System Drive : CORSAIR 2TB MP600 Gen4
RAID : No RAID
Power Supply : CORSAIR 850X RMX SERIES PLUS GOLD PSU
Power Supply Sleeved Cable : No Sleeved Cable
The ORIGIN Difference : The Best Gaming Experience Guaranteed
ORIGIN Maximum Protection Shipping Process : ORIGIN Wooden Crate Armor
24/7 U.S Based Warranty : 3 Year Part Replacement with Free Shipping
Evolve Upgrade Service : 3yr Evolve Upgrade Service +$79
Free ORIGIN PC Peripheral : ORIGIN PC Mousepad
Free ORIGIN PC T-shirt : ORIGIN PC T-Shirt
Size : Medium
Keyboards : CORSAIR K68 Gaming Keyboard
Mouse : CORSAIR GLAIVE RGB Gaming Mouse — Black
Mouse Pad : CORSAIR MM500 Premium Anti-Fray Cloth Gaming Mouse Pad — Extended 3XL
Gaming Controllers : Microsoft Xbox One Wireless Controller
Webcam : C922 Pro Stream Webcam
Display : ASUS 27" ROG 165Hz PG278QR Monitor
External Optical Drive : 6x External Blu-Ray Writer
External Audio : Creative Sound Blaster Omni Surround 5.1 External USB
External Networking : ASUS USB-AC56 Dual-band Wireless-AC1300 USB 3.0
External Capture Cards : Elgato HD60 S
Headsets : Corsair Gaming HS60 Surround Headset, Carbon
Microphone : Blue Microphones Yeti - Blackout Edition
Speakers : Logitech THX-Certified Z906 5.1 Speaker System
Web Browser : Mozilla Firefox
Security Software : Webroot AntiVirus for PC Gamers
Productivity Software : Microsoft Office 2019 Home & Student (1PC/1User)
Apps : Steam (The Ultimate Online Game Platform)
Apps : Discord

I would buy everything outright, but I only really got 3500 saved up all together, and with the new job I got im making about 600 a week towards savings after I cut out what I need for rent and utility and car stuff.

I figure I can only abuse the warranty and just buy a really nice case separately for cheap, transfer everything over and the cooling parts and really get the moneys worth with the card. maybe even in the future even use the warranty and upgrade the cpu if it somehow overheats and gets ruined, or the water cooling breaks and fucks up the setup overall.

I see a lot of Corsair and questionable decisions.

Before I can recommend anything I'll first have to figure out where you're actually going with this, so some questions in no particular order:
First of all 160 a month for how many months?
Why a mini-ITX case? You want to replace it with a bigger one anyway so why cripple your motherboard choice like that?
Why a 3900X? Considering the rest of the build this doesn't seem like a budget decision. If you do care about the cores why not go all the way and get a 3950X? If you don't a 3700X/3800X should be more than enough for games and significantly easier to cool especially when overclocked. Are you planning on using CPU encoding when streaming? Why not GPU encoding if you've got a 2080 Ti anyway?
Why go for a mediocre Aio liquid cooler at all if you're worried about it breaking?
Why choose a mobo with WiFi 802.11a/b/g/n/ac/ax then buy a worse external WiFi-Adapter with only 802.11a/b/g/n/ac? What's that supposed to do?
Why only 3200 MHz RAM? Considering the money you're throwing at everything else that's downright dissapointing.
Why a Founder's Edition? It's more expensive and worse in every single aspect than a card with a better cooler.
Why a 2TB MP600 but no HDD at all?
Why a 850W PSU for a 450W (still definitely <600W overclocked) build?
Why a headset and a microphone?
Why a headset with an external soundcard and another external soundcard on top of that?

He is using origin for a system builder i think. It is like 6k USD for all of that gear which is overpriced for what you are getting tbh. You should have a noctua cooler, a seasonic psu and 3600mhz memory for that price.

You should try build it yourself because origin are a bit overpriced. Also you mentioned moving it from 1 case to another so this wont be that much extra effort.

Also you cant really overclock Ryzen 1/2/3000 more than 150 mhz reliably. You can PBO and AutoOC, which allows the cpu to draw more power automatically basically, but thats it really. If you want to get into it, you can get into CCD and CCX overclocking, but that takes forever to do.
Best way to overclock ryzen is to get Samsung B-die ram modules and tighten the CAS timings as much as you can, starting with Ryzen DRAM calculator as a base. Buildzoid has some PBO and RAM overclocking videos on his youtube channel.

Get a decent gen 3 SSD and get either a high capacity drive or a NAS if you are going all out for storage. Gen4 ssds dont offer much extra other than it runs hotter for no apparent gain for most people.

If you want all out, you are probably gonna have to go custom water cooling because the 240mm CLCs are not good at all compared to a good noctua cooler in terms of noise and performance. You would only go for CLCs for the absorbing heat better when the CPU spikes when idle. But it's idle so it makes no difference at all to performance.

Also CLCs WILL fail eventually, so an NH-D15 is a good choice to go all out. It performs like 1 degree better than other dual tower coolers and it comes with fairly decent paste in the box.

You shouldnt cheap out on a case. Bad airflow can cause your system to run 10C hotter for no reason. Get decent fans that are as big as you can fit in a case, so you have the most airflow at the lowest audible noise.

Also you dont need a gamer antivirus. Windows defender is adequate for most people. Not that well versed in anti-viruses nowadays, but avoid avast and AVG. Malwarebytes always a good choice.

I wouldn't buy by brand. Neither Noctua nor Seasonic are always the best choice nor is the RMx series bad. That's the one Corsair part in the whole build I don't dislike for being Corsair but rather because 850W are wholly unnecessary.

And yeah, I figured some of the choices (GPU, fans, cooler) are limitations of the website/builder but that doesn't explain half of the choices.

I'm also actively trying to ignore the existence of "AntiVirus for PC Gamers". Please don't make me remember.

ive been looking into building a small form factor pc but am unsure if i should go for an ITX or MATX mobo. my main goal is portability to take it with me to LAN and my cousins house as im there quite often.

my budget is around 1000 CAD and most likely will not be recycling parts from my old PC (i3-6100, rx470) because of how cost effective ryzen is, as well as the form factor concern/ram speed.

im leaning towards ryzen but any input is appreciated.

games wise i would mainly want to be able to play and stream tf2, csgo, and possibly the new diabotical game coming out @ high frames with a low quality graphics config (looking to maximize fps) and stream at 720p 60fps. I don't play many other mainstream titles but I would like to have the option to play them without fps issues. unsure about overclocking but as long as it doesn't make my computer too loud im all for it.

also not one for crazy aesthetics as long as the case isn't obnoxious looking and durable for travel. i believe fans would be best for this? am unsure about water-cooling but id also like my computer to not be loud as fuck like my old build is.

I'm looking to get the build ready at by the end of April as that's when uni ends for me, and when I'll have free time to game like a degenerate again.

Take a look at the size of µATX cases. Especially the smaller ones. Don't go mini-ITX unless you really have to to get the build as small is you want it.

I can see not reusing the mobo (and therefore the CPU) but unless you want to sell the old PC as is I'd at least consider reusing the GPU, HDD/SSD and PSU.

"Ryzen" is even less specific and useful than "i7". If you don't at least have a few specific models in mind and are aware of what the other options are this is the same as the old "I'll buy Intel because I like Intel, that's what my old pc uses". If you ever rule out half of your options because you've "heard good things" about the other half you need to take a step back and reconsider.

GPU or CPU encoding?
What are "high frames"?
What does playing other maintstream titles without fps issues mean? There's a difference between getting a GPU one step above what you strictly need and getting one that's three times as expensive because you 60 fps on max settings in every game.

Watercooling also uses fans. For travel size and weight should be your primary concern. There are cases that are quite pretty and very durable because they are a massive box of steel weighing 30 pounds but I wouldn't want to travel with one of those. With the exception of some cheap plastic front panels no case should just fall apart during travel. Any force that could actually break weaker cases would leave even the best ones quite scratched and banged up so you should avoid that either way.