a5
it's a gravelpit style ADCP map
it has a bridge instead of a house for A
and the connectors are totally different
there's a setupgate like thing that's unlocked when A+B are both capped, it's a shortcut to C but it's fairly exposed and passes through the AB connector.
Download (Alpha 5):
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/cp_limited_a5.bsp.bz2
a5
it's a gravelpit style ADCP map
it has a bridge instead of a house for A
and the connectors are totally different
there's a setupgate like thing that's unlocked when A+B are both capped, it's a shortcut to C but it's fairly exposed and passes through the AB connector.
Download ([b]Alpha 5[/b]):
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/cp_limited_a5.bsp.bz2
There are an awful lot of closed in areas on this map, would be nicer if it were more open.
There are an awful lot of closed in areas on this map, would be nicer if it were more open.
I would plead with you to limit your use of doors to places where they are strictly necessary and make sense thematically (this latter part is probably not relevant at this early alpha stage). Doors are really cool and you can use them to great effect in TF2 but they come with a lot of problems as well: most importantly the lack of awareness of what lies on the other side. You'll notice that in many popular maps, doors are used sparingly and only in situations where the player entering or exiting has fewer areas to scan for enemies than your map's expanse provides. In your first screenshot the door labelled "B" is up against a flat wall, meaning that anyone coming into the gameplay area from behind that door can be ambushed from literally any direction on coming through the door, and peeking through once quickly to see what lies on the other side and checking for sticky traps is not going to be sufficient to get a grasp of where the enemy is waiting. By building protrusions from the walls and having doorways at right angles to the intended exit direction, you can allow players to push through areas without being completely blind, which I recommend highly.
I would plead with you to limit your use of doors to places where they are strictly necessary and make sense thematically (this latter part is probably not relevant at this early alpha stage). Doors are really cool and you can use them to great effect in TF2 but they come with a lot of problems as well: most importantly the lack of awareness of what lies on the other side. You'll notice that in many popular maps, doors are used sparingly and only in situations where the player entering or exiting has fewer areas to scan for enemies than your map's expanse provides. In your first screenshot the door labelled "B" is up against a flat wall, meaning that anyone coming into the gameplay area from behind that door can be ambushed from literally any direction on coming through the door, and peeking through once quickly to see what lies on the other side and checking for sticky traps is not going to be sufficient to get a grasp of where the enemy is waiting. By building protrusions from the walls and having doorways at right angles to the intended exit direction, you can allow players to push through areas without being completely blind, which I recommend highly.
I tried to place doors as little as possible while blocking what would be bad through-sightlines without them. I know that doors aren't the best way to solve that, and messing with geometry is better, but there's something to be said about walking up to a door and getting in the doorway before the people on the other side know you're there. I'm going to cut down on shutters later after I figure out which ones I really don't need.
I'll keep your advice about flanking people coming through doorways in mind, though, and see what I can do about it in the places where it would be a problem (like that far right B door in the first screenshot). I don't know which doors make sense "thematically" yet, at all, because I've only come up with a handful of places with some kind of world building attached to them.
I tried to place doors as little as possible while blocking what would be bad through-sightlines without them. I know that doors aren't the best way to solve that, and messing with geometry is better, but there's something to be said about walking up to a door and getting in the doorway before the people on the other side know you're there. I'm going to cut down on shutters later after I figure out which ones I really don't need.
I'll keep your advice about flanking people coming through doorways in mind, though, and see what I can do about it in the places where it would be a problem (like that far right B door in the first screenshot). I don't know which doors make sense "thematically" yet, at all, because I've only come up with a handful of places with some kind of world building attached to them.
How long are the cap times for the points? D: better not be as long as gravel pits
How long are the cap times for the points? D: better not be as long as gravel pits
They should the the same as gpit right now, assuming that's what the ABS pack used for the timers in its gpit gamemode. I want to turn them down but I have no idea how much I want to turn them down so I decided I'll leave them how they are until I see the map played a couple times.
They should the the same as gpit right now, assuming that's what the ABS pack used for the timers in its gpit gamemode. I want to turn them down but I have no idea how much I want to turn them down so I decided I'll leave them how they are until I see the map played a couple times.
Looked around the map for a bit today. Seems interesting, but a little complex here and there.
http://i.imgur.com/xPZ5skS.jpg
Texture glitch here at C. Did you use custom textures? If you did, you have to pack them into the .bsp using a program called pakrat.
http://i.imgur.com/KYtyrcl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dA9e8lK.jpg
These two pictures illustrate why I will love attacking C as a demoman. If you get people killed/off the point there is no way for them to get out of their spawn to stop the point capture. It's too easy to kill anyone coming out of red spawn/trap them out. Consider adding something to block sight to from the point to both doors, or moving the structure the point is on.
http://i.imgur.com/wHkW55e.jpg
You're probably going to need another ramp up to the highground at this corner, either by jumping on boxes, a plain ramp, or displacement ground slope. If your medic winds up right here it won't be a good time.
http://i.imgur.com/fmxRCCL.jpg
Interesting structure for C, definitely gravelpit styled, however it'll be much easier to attack because of the way you have it positioned- overlooking red spawn and with ramps coming from blue side. Could play alright (other than the sightline mentioned before) but only testing will tell.
http://i.imgur.com/8GFkfM4.jpg
Anyone who chooses to walk out of this door from red spawn is dead if anyone from blue is in the area. It's extremely easy to spam, it's a long distance from getting to any high ground, people can camp right above it, and you have to walk out before you can rocket jump up.
All in all, this could be really interesting. I feel like it needs to be opened up a bit and the transitions on the right side of blue's spawn need to be simplified a bit. Looks promising, though.
Looked around the map for a bit today. Seems interesting, but a little complex here and there.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/xPZ5skS.jpg[/img]
Texture glitch here at C. Did you use custom textures? If you did, you have to pack them into the .bsp using a program called pakrat.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/KYtyrcl.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/dA9e8lK.jpg[/img]
These two pictures illustrate why I will love attacking C as a demoman. If you get people killed/off the point there is no way for them to get out of their spawn to stop the point capture. It's too easy to kill anyone coming out of red spawn/trap them out. Consider adding something to block sight to from the point to both doors, or moving the structure the point is on.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/wHkW55e.jpg[/img]
You're probably going to need another ramp up to the highground at this corner, either by jumping on boxes, a plain ramp, or displacement ground slope. If your medic winds up right here it won't be a good time.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/fmxRCCL.jpg[/img]
Interesting structure for C, definitely gravelpit styled, however it'll be much easier to attack because of the way you have it positioned- overlooking red spawn and with ramps coming from blue side. Could play alright (other than the sightline mentioned before) but only testing will tell.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/8GFkfM4.jpg[/img]
Anyone who chooses to walk out of this door from red spawn is dead if anyone from blue is in the area. It's extremely easy to spam, it's a long distance from getting to any high ground, people can camp right above it, and you have to walk out before you can rocket jump up.
All in all, this could be really interesting. I feel like it needs to be opened up a bit and the transitions on the right side of blue's spawn need to be simplified a bit. Looks promising, though.
Midnitesiteit's not badlands
not even funny when papa smurf does it
[quote=Midnitesite]it's not badlands[/quote]
not even funny when papa smurf does it
Ran through this one too (two!). Got some stuff for you, and yes, no screenshots. Sorry, you'll just have to interpret.
1. Your doorways feel too small. They should probably be at least 192 units high, that's a comfortable height. Yours feel like 168 or something shorter.
2. The sightline on B over the catwalk from the BLU exit door to the RED shutter door should be blocked. It will serve to mush any push BLU wants to have out of the door if they push without über.
3. A little more height difference please for the flat land in the RED building behind B and its catwalk that is the exact height as it. Look at GPit, its catwalks are varying heights and are interesting.
4. Fix yo missing textures.
5. B has no tertiary entrance from A for BLU, besides heading straight through spawn. This might not be a problem but is something to think about, as it isolates the points quite a bit.
6. BLU's routes leading up to A are very complex and almost unnecessarily varied. The height is all over the place with no clear direction, and the point is almost a U-turn from the direction you're sent initially.
7. Please use something other than those 2fort sniper fences for your barricades. Do something different, or varied. It would look nicer, and those things are really enormous anyways.
8. After investigating the routes, an iron man defense seems near impossible. This might not be a bad thing. It's just something to think about, as B is so off the beaten path and most of the paths exist between A and C.
9. Routes between A and C can get quite complex and all over the place, especially inside the building. The one-way drop on the right (RED-perspective) of C seems overpowered towards BLU.
10. C in general seems tricky to hold. BLU gets so many advantages. Give RED a few more, like spawn door protection and a few excellent sentry spots. Don't be afraid to make it hard to push like GPit's C, because one successful push is all a team will need to win the round.
11. You use a lot of shutter doors. Like, a LOT of shutter doors. I won't compare it with Edifice any more than this, but Edifice had only 4 shutter doors. All of them were in spawn. They are not a good thing and make routes unnecessarily chokey.
12. If BLU tries to leave A through the door far on the right, they're faced with a U-turn and a bridge where only jumping classes can get up towards C.
13. The one-way route also seems like it gives much too big of an advantage to BLU.
All in all, seems like an interesting map. It's small and also seems like it is hard for RED to hold, though. Here's to seeing the next fixed-textures version tested, hope it goes well.
If you need any help with A/D maps just ask me. I've had good and bad experiences with Edifice alike. The community is not kind towards them, trust me. Just take it easy and make tons of changes, maybe you can do something I failed to do with Edifice. Cheers.
Ran through this one too (two!). Got some stuff for you, and yes, no screenshots. Sorry, you'll just have to interpret.
1. Your doorways feel too small. They should probably be at least 192 units high, that's a comfortable height. Yours feel like 168 or something shorter.
2. The sightline on B over the catwalk from the BLU exit door to the RED shutter door should be blocked. It will serve to mush any push BLU wants to have out of the door if they push without über.
3. A little more height difference please for the flat land in the RED building behind B and its catwalk that is the exact height as it. Look at GPit, its catwalks are varying heights and are interesting.
4. Fix yo missing textures.
5. B has no tertiary entrance from A for BLU, besides heading straight through spawn. This might not be a problem but is something to think about, as it isolates the points quite a bit.
6. BLU's routes leading up to A are very complex and almost unnecessarily varied. The height is all over the place with no clear direction, and the point is almost a U-turn from the direction you're sent initially.
7. Please use something other than those 2fort sniper fences for your barricades. Do something different, or varied. It would look nicer, and those things are really enormous anyways.
8. After investigating the routes, an iron man defense seems near impossible. This might not be a bad thing. It's just something to think about, as B is so off the beaten path and most of the paths exist between A and C.
9. Routes between A and C can get quite complex and all over the place, especially inside the building. The one-way drop on the right (RED-perspective) of C seems overpowered towards BLU.
10. C in general seems tricky to hold. BLU gets so many advantages. Give RED a few more, like spawn door protection and a few excellent sentry spots. Don't be afraid to make it hard to push like GPit's C, because one successful push is all a team will need to win the round.
11. You use a lot of shutter doors. Like, a LOT of shutter doors. I won't compare it with Edifice any more than this, but Edifice had only 4 shutter doors. All of them were in spawn. They are not a good thing and make routes unnecessarily chokey.
12. If BLU tries to leave A through the door far on the right, they're faced with a U-turn and a bridge where only jumping classes can get up towards C.
13. The one-way route also seems like it gives much too big of an advantage to BLU.
All in all, seems like an interesting map. It's small and also seems like it is hard for RED to hold, though. Here's to seeing the next fixed-textures version tested, hope it goes well.
If you need any help with A/D maps just ask me. I've had good and bad experiences with Edifice alike. The community is not kind towards them, trust me. Just take it easy and make tons of changes, maybe you can do something I failed to do with Edifice. Cheers.
woah, that's a lot more feedback than I expected. thanks, time to go through it all.
Hyce:
Er... whoops. I totally forgot those were custom, because I ripped them off the security fence props.
Gonna think really hard about what I could do to make sticking the spawns from C more difficult. I don't know if I want to block the upper door yet, though, because I feel like it might be interesting.
Thanks for the suggestion, I'll use some crates.
I thought it would be fun to have a really close spawn exit and one further away. I just need to see how it works.
I haven't decided what to do for that door yet. I could move its wall firmly under the platform, I could put a ramp in front of it, I dunno. I have to think about it.
Phi:
1) They're the same size as most of the shutter door props. 128... If I get any more complaints about it I'll make them bigger.
2) I haven't figured out what to do with that yet, but if it's so bad I'll make it a priority to figure out.
3) Got it.
5) Doesn't it? Going through A's far left and upper door leads you to a gound door behind B, or you could drop down from the C shack / A-C transition courtyard connector (the bridge on the inside of the A/B connector) to get on the same route.
6) I imagine people going through the left A door into the room instead of out the long way. I just imagined that as a place you could fall back to or bring your medic if you don't like them going into the lobby. I can tell it's too complicated and cramped now though, so I'll work on it.
7) Got it.
8) Opening up the C shortcut to red should help that a lot, I think.
9) @ dropdown: whoops. I accidentally made it above 72.
10) I honestly don't remember how to think about adding sentry spots. I'm going to figure something out about the further red spawn exit, though.
11) I guess I'm so used to how 5cp maps use shuttersthat it's a bad thing for A/D. And I did go a bit overboard, anyway, I have at least five that are entirely unnecssary.
12) You mean left, right? That door's just supposed to be the A/B connector. the bridge going through it for C was an afterthought, because I couldn't figure out another way to connect the courtyard-thing to the shack.
13) Got it.
I'll take up that offer some time.
cp_limited_a2 with stuff from feedback and stuff.
changelog:
- Packed the fence texture this time
- Moved the C shortcut respawnroom visualizer back to next doorway. This means that RED can get into the area exposed between the fences just like BLU could. I'll see if I need to add a shutter on it later (it seems like I might but I'm not sure).
- Did some very little height variation stuff at B. I really don't like the way it looks, but I'll figure out something better later.
- Added a stack of crates in the corner of B's bottom
- Went and deleted a bunch of unnecessary shutters. Left ones that I still think are appropriate or don't have what they need to not exist yet. There should only be three aside from setup gates and spawn doors left. (six if you count the C shortcut gates)
- Added a thing on C to cut off the distant further spawn door from the point's sightline. it's more of a chore to sticky it, and it can't see the B->C door directly. not totally content with it, would love suggestions on what else to do there. The best I can do is the far corner.
- Simplified blu's back of the A area a bit (the part with both the overhangs)
- Moved the pickups on C and changed the lunchbox to a pills
- You can crouch-jump up to C shack from C now, it's the least I can do.
- Lowered A's cap time from 30 to 20 (for two people), just in case it's harder to attack because of the connectors.
- Fixed some fence clipping.
- Added two more small ammos on last on the spire structure
- Replaced most sniper fences with gray brushes
Download alpha 2: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/cp_limited_a2.7z
Screenshots:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/cp%20limited%20a2%205.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/cp%20limited%20a2%204.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/cp%20limited%20a2%203.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/cp%20limited%20a2%202.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/cp%20limited%20a2%201.jpg
woah, that's a lot more feedback than I expected. thanks, time to go through it all.
Hyce:
Er... whoops. I totally forgot those were custom, because I ripped them off the security fence props.
Gonna think really hard about what I could do to make sticking the spawns from C more difficult. I don't know if I want to block the upper door yet, though, because I feel like it might be interesting.
Thanks for the suggestion, I'll use some crates.
I thought it would be fun to have a really close spawn exit and one further away. I just need to see how it works.
I haven't decided what to do for that door yet. I could move its wall firmly under the platform, I could put a ramp in front of it, I dunno. I have to think about it.
Phi:
1) They're the same size as most of the shutter door props. 128... If I get any more complaints about it I'll make them bigger.
2) I haven't figured out what to do with that yet, but if it's so bad I'll make it a priority to figure out.
3) Got it.
5) Doesn't it? Going through A's far left and upper door leads you to a gound door behind B, or you could drop down from the C shack / A-C transition courtyard connector (the bridge on the inside of the A/B connector) to get on the same route.
6) I imagine people going through the left A door into the room instead of out the long way. I just imagined that as a place you could fall back to or bring your medic if you don't like them going into the lobby. I can tell it's too complicated and cramped now though, so I'll work on it.
7) Got it.
8) Opening up the C shortcut to red should help that a lot, I think.
9) @ dropdown: whoops. I accidentally made it above 72.
10) I honestly don't remember how to think about adding sentry spots. I'm going to figure something out about the further red spawn exit, though.
11) I guess I'm so used to how 5cp maps use shuttersthat it's a bad thing for A/D. And I did go a bit overboard, anyway, I have at least five that are entirely unnecssary.
12) You mean left, right? That door's just supposed to be the A/B connector. the bridge going through it for C was an afterthought, because I couldn't figure out another way to connect the courtyard-thing to the shack.
13) Got it.
I'll take up that offer some time.
cp_limited_a2 with stuff from feedback and stuff.
changelog:
- Packed the fence texture this time
- Moved the C shortcut respawnroom visualizer back to next doorway. This means that RED can get into the area exposed between the fences just like BLU could. I'll see if I need to add a shutter on it later (it seems like I might but I'm not sure).
- Did some very little height variation stuff at B. I really don't like the way it looks, but I'll figure out something better later.
- Added a stack of crates in the corner of B's bottom
- Went and deleted a bunch of unnecessary shutters. Left ones that I still think are appropriate or don't have what they need to not exist yet. There should only be three aside from setup gates and spawn doors left. (six if you count the C shortcut gates)
- Added a thing on C to cut off the distant further spawn door from the point's sightline. it's more of a chore to sticky it, and it can't see the B->C door directly. not totally content with it, would love suggestions on what else to do there. The best I can do is the far corner.
- Simplified blu's back of the A area a bit (the part with both the overhangs)
- Moved the pickups on C and changed the lunchbox to a pills
- You can crouch-jump up to C shack from C now, it's the least I can do.
- Lowered A's cap time from 30 to 20 (for two people), just in case it's harder to attack because of the connectors.
- Fixed some fence clipping.
- Added two more small ammos on last on the spire structure
- Replaced most sniper fences with gray brushes
Download [b]alpha 2[/b]: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/cp_limited_a2.7z
Screenshots:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/cp%20limited%20a2%205.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/cp%20limited%20a2%204.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/cp%20limited%20a2%203.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/cp%20limited%20a2%202.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/cp%20limited%20a2%201.jpg
a3
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/cp_limited_a3.7z
- Fixed blu spawns being mostly underground (so there's 12 spawn points now)
- added more signs signs SIGNS
- changed some pickups mostly according to feedback
- raise C base captime from 7 to 9 seconds
- raised skybox on C
- made C under a little less cramped (smaller ceiling bars) and made the roof look more like it's clipped off
- Lowered respawn times for both teams from 10-20 seconds to 7.5-15 seconds
- Added some dev lights (they're really ugly but please ignore that thank you)
- Made the setupgates glass brushes (I'll make them larger and models later)
- Raised part of the ground on C in one of the corners, might make a good sentry position because it can see on top of the point more easily
- Playerclipped the edges of the hole in the roof on B so the edges of the metal on the wood don't act like stairs (the hole and its size are still the same)
- Increased the long A connector's sightlineyness
- Widened a door between A and C (the lower and outermost one)
- Increased the sightlineyness from said door to the A long connector
- temporarily disabled the spawn<->C connector to see if it makes winning harder
- removed the teleported nobuild in the blue spawn area
a3
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/cp_limited_a3.7z
- Fixed blu spawns being mostly underground (so there's 12 spawn points now)
- added more signs signs SIGNS
- changed some pickups mostly according to feedback
- raise C base captime from 7 to 9 seconds
- raised skybox on C
- made C under a little less cramped (smaller ceiling bars) and made the roof look more like it's clipped off
- Lowered respawn times for both teams from 10-20 seconds to 7.5-15 seconds
- Added some dev lights [i](they're really ugly but please ignore that thank you)[/i]
- Made the setupgates glass brushes (I'll make them larger and models later)
- Raised part of the ground on C in one of the corners, might make a good sentry position because it can see on top of the point more easily
- Playerclipped the edges of the hole in the roof on B so the edges of the metal on the wood don't act like stairs (the hole and its size are still the same)
- Increased the long A connector's sightlineyness
- Widened a door between A and C (the lower and outermost one)
- Increased the sightlineyness from said door to the A long connector
- temporarily disabled the spawn<->C connector to see if it makes winning harder
- removed the teleported nobuild in the blue spawn area
a4
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/cp_limited_a4.bsp.bz2
http://i.imgur.com/H6i0VII.png
- Expanded B and A's whole areas by like probably 128 or 256 units. They're a lot more comfortable now.
- Added overlays under pickups. If you can't see them, it's probably because r_renderoverlayfragment is set to 0 by an aggressive FPS config.
- Changed some more pickups according to intuition.
- If I did anything else I forgot about it
- This is a whole update because moving 1/4th of the map can cause a lot of problems and I want to make sure that I fixed everything before I do any more work
EDIT: I just updated the download to pack a missing texture. Please re-download if you somehow got it already.
a4
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/cp_limited_a4.bsp.bz2
[img]http://i.imgur.com/H6i0VII.png[/img]
- Expanded B and A's whole areas by like probably 128 or 256 units. They're a lot more comfortable now.
- Added overlays under pickups. If you can't see them, it's probably because r_renderoverlayfragment is set to 0 by an aggressive FPS config.
- Changed some more pickups according to intuition.
- If I did anything else I forgot about it
- This is a whole update because moving 1/4th of the map can cause a lot of problems and I want to make sure that I fixed everything before I do any more work
EDIT: I just updated the download to pack a missing texture. Please re-download if you somehow got it already.
http://i.imgur.com/hRa7ek9.jpg
Seems like the width between the door and edge is a bit wide and between the edge and building are a bit thin.
http://i.imgur.com/6pBL0c2.jpg
Feels cramped and really complicated. When I first walked through starting from red spawn I had no idea what was going on.
http://i.imgur.com/KJ3phcm.jpg
ledge seems awkwardly thin
http://i.imgur.com/tf5pHtn.jpg
This area feels cramped and unnecessary. Maybe health/ammo and a bit of lighting to point it out might justify its existence. It might also feel less cramped if the floor gets lowered a tad when displacements are put in.
http://i.imgur.com/54GUJPE.jpg
I like this. I wish the hallway to B wasn't so long, but this little junction is cool anyway.
http://i.imgur.com/KDg7Rkx.jpg
Clipped? Why?
Entire blue spawn could be streamlined quite a bit, or maybe expanded.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/hRa7ek9.jpg[/img]
Seems like the width between the door and edge is a bit wide and between the edge and building are a bit thin.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/6pBL0c2.jpg[/img]
Feels cramped and really complicated. When I first walked through starting from red spawn I had no idea what was going on.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/KJ3phcm.jpg[/img]
ledge seems awkwardly thin
[img]http://i.imgur.com/tf5pHtn.jpg[/img]
This area feels cramped and unnecessary. Maybe health/ammo and a bit of lighting to point it out might justify its existence. It might also feel less cramped if the floor gets lowered a tad when displacements are put in.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/54GUJPE.jpg[/img]
I like this. I wish the hallway to B wasn't so long, but this little junction is cool anyway.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/KDg7Rkx.jpg[/img]
Clipped? Why?
Entire blue spawn could be streamlined quite a bit, or maybe expanded.
a5!
- Made A area 64 or 128 hammer units smaller
- Made C area 64 or 128 or 256 hammer units larger
- Displacemented the ground under C and added water
- Made the A/B connector higher and shorter
- Totally revamped the Blu Spawn / A connection area
- Added a ledge to A and a standing wall to B which might give better sentry spots
DL:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/cp_limited_a5.bsp.bz2
Screenshots:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/limited-a5-1.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/limited-a5-2.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/limited-a5-3.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/limited-a5-4.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/limited-a5-5.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/limited-a5-6.jpg
@14:
>Seems like the width between the door and edge is a bit wide and between the edge and building are a bit thin.
I don't understand what you're trying to say.
>Feels cramped and really complicated. When I first walked through starting from red spawn I had no idea what was going on.
I overhauled that area in the next version :)
>ledge seems awkwardly thin
Made it bigger!
>This area feels cramped and unnecessary. Maybe health/ammo and a bit of lighting to point it out might justify its existence. It might also feel less cramped if the floor gets lowered a tad when displacements are put in.
Good idea, I added a light and made it a displacement. I don't know about pickups, though. Maybe a pit of water for extinguishing flames. I think I'll do that.
>I like this. I wish the hallway to B wasn't so long, but this little junction is cool anyway.
I made it shorter, and higher! It comes out right on the ramp onto the point, now. I had to add a door, though, or the sightline would be too bad :(
>Clipped? Why?
OOPS.
>Entire blue spawn could be streamlined quite a bit, or maybe expanded.
I might be able to combine the A and B sides, but only if I know I'm not gonna use the C shortcut area again...
a5!
- Made A area 64 or 128 hammer units smaller
- Made C area 64 or 128 or 256 hammer units larger
- Displacemented the ground under C and added water
- Made the A/B connector higher and shorter
- Totally revamped the Blu Spawn / A connection area
- Added a ledge to A and a standing wall to B which might give better sentry spots
DL:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/cp_limited_a5.bsp.bz2
Screenshots:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/limited-a5-1.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/limited-a5-2.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/limited-a5-3.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/limited-a5-4.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/limited-a5-5.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/limited-a5-6.jpg
[b]@14:[/b]
>Seems like the width between the door and edge is a bit wide and between the edge and building are a bit thin.
I don't understand what you're trying to say.
>Feels cramped and really complicated. When I first walked through starting from red spawn I had no idea what was going on.
I overhauled that area in the next version :)
>ledge seems awkwardly thin
Made it bigger!
>This area feels cramped and unnecessary. Maybe health/ammo and a bit of lighting to point it out might justify its existence. It might also feel less cramped if the floor gets lowered a tad when displacements are put in.
Good idea, I added a light and made it a displacement. I don't know about pickups, though. Maybe a pit of water for extinguishing flames. I think I'll do that.
>I like this. I wish the hallway to B wasn't so long, but this little junction is cool anyway.
I made it shorter, and higher! It comes out right on the ramp onto the point, now. I had to add a door, though, or the sightline would be too bad :(
>Clipped? Why?
OOPS.
>Entire blue spawn could be streamlined quite a bit, or maybe expanded.
I might be able to combine the A and B sides, but only if I know I'm not gonna use the C shortcut area again...
wareyaa5!
>Seems like the width between the door and edge is a bit wide and between the edge and building are a bit thin.
I don't understand what you're trying to say.
The distance from the left door in the pic to the metal part is too long; the distance from the right building to the metal part is too short.
I think that's right but who knows, lots of the kraken does not help me think. I'll give not rum-induced thoughts about a5 later.
Edit: I think the kraken has gone away somewhere not in my toilet/stomach so we're good here.
I took like, 14 screenshots of what I think (take with grain of salt, I still think I'm hilarious... (*is not actually hilarious))
So rather than spamming this whole post, http://imgur.com/a/aBSgd#0 here's an imgur album.
[quote=wareya]a5!
>Seems like the width between the door and edge is a bit wide and between the edge and building are a bit thin.
I don't understand what you're trying to say.
[/quote]
The distance from the left door in the pic to the metal part is too long; the distance from the right building to the metal part is too short.
I think that's right but who knows, lots of the kraken does not help me think. I'll give not rum-induced thoughts about a5 later.
Edit: I think the kraken has gone away somewhere not in my toilet/stomach so we're good here.
I took like, 14 screenshots of what I think (take with grain of salt, I still think I'm hilarious... (*is not actually hilarious))
So rather than spamming this whole post, [url=http://imgur.com/a/aBSgd#0]http://imgur.com/a/aBSgd#0[/url] here's an imgur album.
http://i.imgur.com/qR346Xd.png
Probably isn't a real problem, just seems odd
[url=http://i.imgur.com/qR346Xd.png]http://i.imgur.com/qR346Xd.png[/url]
Probably isn't a real problem, just seems odd
I don't know what's a good way to do this, so I'll just respond to the images I have stuff to say about by their title.
>Places to get fucked [1]
Originally I wrote a lot here but I don't really get how this is a thing. Every AD map puts offense on a height disadvantage initially out of spawn, and I think this one is over a large enough area that it doesn't matter.
>Places to get fucked part 2
I like to think of that door as the "I tried to go the fastest route possible to defend my point/flank the point at a dangerous time and got fucked because they were paying attention" place.
>Lol put a sentry here seriously
I put it next to the B door on purpose, so that pubs would have an obvious sentry place but ubers could just come in and hopefully shit on it. My only worry is if there's a pyro with the engineer airblasting the uber away.
>Roamer's wet dream
I didn't think about it like that before, I guess I'll block it off.
>Demospam
Well, I can make it a LITTLE harder. But I haven't really figured out how to deal with it yet.
>Demospam part deux
If being able to stick the corner of the door is still a problem, I'll just make it another level taller, I guess.
>Distances man
Thanks to Ice Crystal's picture, I realized it would probably be a bad scale for HL, so I went and made it more even :)
>MAKE THE HOLE SMALLER OR BIGGER
I DON'T REALLY GET IT BUT IT'S A MINOR DETAIL SO FINE
>No purpose as far as making the map seem real... and fucks blue
Never really realized it fucked blue, assumed people wouldn't want to rocketjump/stickyjump right out of the spawn doors. I'll remove it I guess. It's old function was blocking sightlines but I changed heights around a lot since then and it doesn't help anymore.
>DECREASE THETA WITH RESPECT TO HORIZONTAL
I DON'T REALLY GET IT BUT IT'S A MINOR DETAIL SO FINE
>This water is deep enough so that you can't crouch to go fully underwater. Pyros will be able to troll this by setting you on fire even though you are in water... no one wants this.
You actually can't crouch in water. That's why it does that stutter. It's a necessary part of gradual pools and there are parts where you can get fully submerged so I don't feel like changing it.
>I know it's default with the ABS pack but....
Gravelpit. Literally faster than gravelpit -- 20 seconds base vs 30, on point A. Especially that point. It's just the way it is, man. Acutally, C caps slower, since it's a bit less defensible.
Now then, are these better?
http://i.imgur.com/zAda4Of.png
http://i.imgur.com/EILZCAU.png
I don't know what's a good way to do this, so I'll just respond to the images I have stuff to say about by their title.
>Places to get fucked [1]
Originally I wrote a lot here but I don't really get how this is a thing. Every AD map puts offense on a height disadvantage initially out of spawn, and I think this one is over a large enough area that it doesn't matter.
>Places to get fucked part 2
I like to think of that door as the "I tried to go the fastest route possible to defend my point/flank the point at a dangerous time and got fucked because they were paying attention" place.
>Lol put a sentry here seriously
I put it next to the B door on purpose, so that pubs would have an obvious sentry place but ubers could just come in and hopefully shit on it. My only worry is if there's a pyro with the engineer airblasting the uber away.
>Roamer's wet dream
I didn't think about it like that before, I guess I'll block it off.
>Demospam
Well, I can make it a LITTLE harder. But I haven't really figured out how to deal with it yet.
>Demospam part deux
If being able to stick the corner of the door is still a problem, I'll just make it another level taller, I guess.
>Distances man
Thanks to Ice Crystal's picture, I realized it would probably be a bad scale for HL, so I went and made it more even :)
>MAKE THE HOLE SMALLER OR BIGGER
I DON'T REALLY GET IT BUT IT'S A MINOR DETAIL SO FINE
>No purpose as far as making the map seem real... and fucks blue
Never really realized it fucked blue, assumed people wouldn't want to rocketjump/stickyjump right out of the spawn doors. I'll remove it I guess. It's old function was blocking sightlines but I changed heights around a lot since then and it doesn't help anymore.
>DECREASE THETA WITH RESPECT TO HORIZONTAL
I DON'T REALLY GET IT BUT IT'S A MINOR DETAIL SO FINE
>This water is deep enough so that you can't crouch to go fully underwater. Pyros will be able to troll this by setting you on fire even though you are in water... no one wants this.
You actually can't crouch in water. That's why it does that stutter. It's a necessary part of gradual pools and there are parts where you can get fully submerged so I don't feel like changing it.
>I know it's default with the ABS pack but....
Gravelpit. Literally faster than gravelpit -- 20 seconds base vs 30, on point A. Especially that point. It's just the way it is, man. Acutally, C caps slower, since it's a bit less defensible.
Now then, are these better?
[img]http://i.imgur.com/zAda4Of.png[/img][img]http://i.imgur.com/EILZCAU.png[/img]
I apologize if my critiques seem sassy. I'm just a strange man.
From your pictures, those areas do look better. Not sure how that upper spawn door will work out still but it should be better. The lower door- it's not so much being able to stick the door up, it's the fact that I can toss pipes and stickies right over the barricade and still just completely lock that door up while capping. Looks like you've fixed it, hopefully.
As far as the two minor detail things-
I'd say the hole being bigger or smaller isn't a minor deal. A player new to the map will probably get screwed because he/she thinks that its an escape route and it isn't. It's just a bit confusing.
I've been yelled at for making ramps too steep before, so I guess I was being the first to warn you that you are going to hear it again.
As far as "places to get fucked" go...
Obviously they're just my opinion and my opinion might change with play testing. Yes, Gpit has the attackers on a disadvantage- but it's a nice even open displacement ground advantage and is less chokey and less steep, if you understand. It seems to easy to be spammed out of that side.
And lastly, cap times:
Hammer is a lying slut, it says the times for respawn times and cap times are in seconds. They are in some stupid mythical valve time unit that is much longer than a second, I promise you.
Overall its looking much better, I'd like to play it soon.
I apologize if my critiques seem sassy. I'm just a strange man.
From your pictures, those areas do look better. Not sure how that upper spawn door will work out still but it should be better. The lower door- it's not so much being able to stick the door up, it's the fact that I can toss pipes and stickies right over the barricade and still just completely lock that door up while capping. Looks like you've fixed it, hopefully.
As far as the two minor detail things-
I'd say the hole being bigger or smaller isn't a minor deal. A player new to the map will probably get screwed because he/she thinks that its an escape route and it isn't. It's just a bit confusing.
I've been yelled at for making ramps too steep before, so I guess I was being the first to warn you that you are going to hear it again.
As far as "places to get fucked" go...
Obviously they're just my opinion and my opinion might change with play testing. Yes, Gpit has the attackers on a disadvantage- but it's a nice even open displacement ground advantage and is less chokey and less steep, if you understand. It seems to easy to be spammed out of that side.
And lastly, cap times:
Hammer is a lying slut, it says the times for respawn times and cap times are in seconds. They are in some stupid mythical valve time unit that is much longer than a second, I promise you.
Overall its looking much better, I'd like to play it soon.
Hammer is a lying slut, it says the times for respawn times and cap times are in seconds. They are in some stupid mythical valve time unit that is much longer than a second, I promise you.
Like, it's only wrong when random parameters of the entity aren't set to 1. And they're all set to 1, and so are gravelpit's. My B point is identical to GPit's B, my A is identical with a lower time, my C is identical with a higher time.
Thanks for your feedback.
[quote]Hammer is a lying slut, it says the times for respawn times and cap times are in seconds. They are in some stupid mythical valve time unit that is much longer than a second, I promise you. [/quote]
Like, it's only wrong when random parameters of the entity aren't set to 1. And they're all set to 1, and so are gravelpit's. My B point is identical to GPit's B, my A is identical with a lower time, my C is identical with a higher time.
Thanks for your feedback.
A8 DL:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/cp_limited_a8.bsp.bz2
Screenshots:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/limited%208%204.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/limited%208%203.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/limited%208%202.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/limited%208%201.jpg
Changes since A5 -- might be missing some:
- Changed some brushwork on B
- Revamped the Spawn - A connector (Raised most lowground, made everything wider especially above the choke, added another pills)
- Altered the upper red spawn exit
- Made A cap longer
- Added a second AB connector, should make defending easier
- Made the wooden barrier in the old AB connector a ramp, so you can use it as a path from B to C
- Brought back the old C shortcut door, but it's not a shortcut to C anymore, it's just a way into the new AB connector instead.
- Did some texturing
A8 DL:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/cp_limited_a8.bsp.bz2
Screenshots:
[img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/limited%208%204.jpg[/img]
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/limited%208%203.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/limited%208%202.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1811521/limited%208%201.jpg
Changes since A5 -- might be missing some:
- Changed some brushwork on B
- Revamped the Spawn - A connector (Raised most lowground, made everything wider especially above the choke, added another pills)
- Altered the upper red spawn exit
- Made A cap longer
- Added a second AB connector, should make defending easier
- Made the wooden barrier in the old AB connector a ramp, so you can use it as a path from B to C
- Brought back the old C shortcut door, but it's not a shortcut to C anymore, it's just a way into the new AB connector instead.
- Did some texturing