I don't really understand why people want to try to balance a class that has existed with no problems for 7 years

Sorry, run that by me again?
Demoman has existed with no problems for 7 years?
Sure

Neither did I at first, but every forum for TF2 I've been apart I've always come across a few threads discussing this weapon (generally in a negative manner aside from this one for the most part), and I realized I've been using the appeal to tradition fallacy for quite some time.

Demoman has had some nerfs in the past since the beginning that have since remained so I wouldn't say it has no problems. (Stickybombs used to be able to deal up to 180 damage with full ramp up, stickies used to be unshootable, and pills had a clip size reduction and used to explode on contact after bouncing).

I'm fine with you disagreeing, and I'd like constructive criticism on the presentation. The target audience was not the 6s community either, but I'd enjoy hearing opinions from all of TF2's demographic.

there's nothing wrong with sticks, pubbers are just shit.
also wrangler is annoying as fuck with the damage shield, sticks struggle against it; back when sticks were nerfed (shudder) wrangled level 3s were fucking insane. sticks are balanced as they are, stop complaining. I main Scout and Sniper for reference and I hate playing Demo.

edit: it takes around 6-7 sticks to kill a wrangled level 3 normally, and with the nerf it took around 12-13. (these are instant dets)

Yeah I would think that although the 6s community likes to joke about how easy demo is, most of us know it is actually pretty difficult and really doesn't need to be made any worse

2014 - 2007 == 7

Yes. Only problem in recent times was that stupid damage ramp up thing, but luckily Valve got their shit together

Edit: Oh and bring back the 112 pipes pls volvo

Would like to point out that seven years ago demoman had tons of problems. I don't know when exactly they nerfed it to the state it is today, but it certainly had some 'problems'. Even now it's slightly op, I think many people agree that it could cope with a slight nerf, yeah? Demo is easily my favourite class btw lol

Such as:

6 pills per clip, unshootable sticks, ramp up to 180 damage per sticky.

he just answered your question bud. Demo is well balanced now, but it certainly wasn't at launch.

Yeah.. good luck finding that demographic here pal.

Can we discuss the real devil that is Pyro?

the thing about demoman is that it's extremely balanced in 6v6, it's just overpowered as fuck in highlander and especially in pubs

it's frankly a miracle that valve hasn't nerfed the shit out of it even more because they almost never balance around 6s

but if demo is nerfed it will hurt 6s, and since 6s is by far the most balanced and respectable way to play tf2, that would be really bad

I've tried telling this to so many people, but I guess I've reached a breaking point in the 2 years I've played. It upsets me how valve refuses to acknowledge the most structured format that plays closer to the original game and focus on pubs (no structure/no balance).

yes let's nerf demo so scouts can become the even more unstoppable killing machines they were always meant to be

Pub players buy shits in mann co store so valve listens to them.

My memory of the game state at launch isn't great and I've never really played demo much, was the pipe mag 6 at launch? I thought they changed it to 4 in the beta. Fair point on sticky destruction, I thought it was patched shortly after launch but turns out it was a year later.

hmm wonder why demo is limited to 1 in 6s

scouts are the best dudes why are we talking about demos

yea because there's 2 of em

and here i was thinking that kid crying on stream yesterday would be the most ridiculously dumb thing i see this week.

we limit the class to 1...

Competitive TF2 works beautifully with the asymetrical class balance, demo does the most damage in the game, but is not unbalanced. He is weaker than the other 6s classes at defending himself, and his mobility is signifigantly less than the other 6s classes, and it much more costly to his own health than rockets jumps, or scout's raw speed.

Look at the way the picks carry different worth - a demo pick is worth a lot, the enemy team loses a lot of their ability to control chokes and deny area, so you are now able to easily push and bully them out of a point. Now look at getting a scout pick. Perhaps this will allow you to push through the now-weakened flank a bit more easily, but it won't give you as big of an advantage or as much breathing room as killing the demo.

Now we can compare this to virtually any other competitive game that takes team comp into account. In league of legends, killing one of the enemy carries gives you a massive advantage in the next fight, as their damage output will be severly decreased. Killing the jungler during the laning phase releaves a great deal of pressure for the solo laners, who can now play more aggerssively. Killing the enemy support, however, will not gain you as big of an advantage.

I can think of countless other examples, but the point is fairly evident in it's own. TF2 works perfectly with it's asymetrical class balance. What would be the point of having a class-based shooter if all the classes were completely the same?

How you not dflame right now? I guess you're not making it an over exaggerated post but really...

how is this real

We also limit medic to 1 but do you think a team of 6 medics would win everything?

It has nothing to do with being OP honestly, much more about promoting a fast paced and aggressive gameplay because 2 demos would make the game so much more passive and slow. We played 6s with 2 demos before, that didn't work out, doesn't mean that the demo is an unstoppable killing machine that would destroy the game just because its limited to 1.

The thing is that the class is inherently a bit more forgivable at the lower levels and pub play because you can pick off dumb/off position people with traps and cheap spam but it's incredibly unforgivable at high levels against players with good movement and dodge, if they get face to face you're pretty much useless.

always gotta bring the black man down ;_;

brad - healer
shade - healer
kbk - crossbows
mesr - crossbows
stultus - needles
harbleu - ubersaws

gg invite

mesr is the besr

I remember a few seasons ago there was a stream where they were playing this game. I forget who was streaming but the players were b4nny, indust, shrugger, and I think dummy. They were playing on a server set up for dm on gpit B. It was three meds with needles and ubersaws. The meds had to try to survive long enough to get uber from ubersaws on the soldier only using crossbows to heal each other. The soldier was working to try to reach a certain number of kills on the meds. I don't know if this is a thing because I haven't seen it before or since but it was actually pretty fun to watch and seemed fun to play.

... and by that same logic if you nerf the demoman you are