scouts are now unhittable and can twoshot everything in the game

because of how stalemates work (spam contest on opposite sides of a chokepoint), it's all about whether or not it's easy to viably push into the other team

if you look at cp_foundry, it's like, impossible to break the stalemate between mid and 2/4 because you need to uber through the choke but /then what/

it's things like how cold/warmfront last is so hard to push, except in both directions and not as severe, that make maps "prone to stalemating"

saying that it's up to the players and the map has absolutely no influence on it is like saying that quad damage being gay in quake duels is because the players can't deal with it, it's like an ad hominem argument

If we look at Gran last theres Sniper stalemate.
But you dont have too.
Break the norm and let the game flow.

irrelevant example best retort 2012
respond to something i actually said pls thx

only viable option ive seen is uber builds twice as fast but lasts half as long

one word: koth

fuck that's 4

Sigma beat me to a post. I don't know why there's a discussion on this but whatever. If this is regarding viewership it's unfortunately inherently flawed as it's viewed as a "randy pub casual game" with "eyecandy graphics" and it's a team based FPS (ie, hard to follow all the action, casters/exp players and new spectators/players alike). But that can't be helped.

Otherwise, if it's to do with making the game "more interesting", it really isn't needed.

The only thing I would change in terms of speeding up the game would be halving the time ubers last so that ubers are used merely for getting past stickies and getting into a choke, and that switching targets during ubers doesn't drain the time. That way, if a medic is really good at flashing, he can flash his team through the choke just to pass the entryway spam.

Want to see a boring stale mate? Watch street fighter or King of fighters, the games are not bad, but when someone is in a corner blocking everything, all you see for 30 seconds(not a lot of time, but when the top players are playing, it's best 4 out of 5), is people punching, nothing special, just punching. It gets boring ._.

Halving Uber Time and Build Time would make more Uber attempts be made, but also make a lot more failed ubers. It'd make higher level games faster and more entertaining to watch because the higher players are going to do something with the push no matter what. Lower level players are going to get a foot in the door, get kited and spammed out and wipe, respawn, and to the same to the team that just killed them on the point. It wouldn't remove stalemates, just make the number of pushes per stalemate go up.The only real way you're going to stop stalemates in lower level games is to give teams a reason to push without an uber. As a shitty player, I usually just wait until the meters full to push in.

Actually, the new vaccinator medigun does almost exactly what clockwork's describing. I'll be excited to see if it can provoke some really aggressive play if it can be balanced in the next couple seasons.

I'd like to see a gamemode thats a modified Attack/Defend with class/item restrictions and different capturing mechanics.

For example, a modified gravelpit (5v5 stopwatch and bo5) where
- medic and engie are banned
- you would only have to capture one of the two points (A/B) to be able to capture C and win the round.
- respawn times are longer

This is just a rough idea, but I think a gamemode that can balance the classes' unique mechanics and mobility/damage power would speed up the game and make it more appealing to the wider tf2 population by supporting usage of all the tf2 classes.

Rip in peace coldfront last
Never forget s11

Don't know what bad players you are watching, but this literally never happens.

We shouldn't be looking to remove stalemates from the game. They work well with the flow and only result from the offensive team choosing to purposely slow down the play. You'll see it happen less at high levels because they know their limits, and you'll see it happen more at lower levels where teams don't.

The timer thing has to be reviewed. Why stalemate when a team has 4/5 CPs? Resetting timer to 5 instead of 10 would be a good start. This would immediately solve the turtling issue on the last.
Of course, usually the best team has the 4/5 and in the common scenario where they are able to take middle and kill the opposing team's medic, it'd be unlikely that the other team would recover in time. Blocking the last capture by 1-2 minutes after the 2nd (4th) has been taken would give them just the enough time to build uber and counter-attack to retake 2nd, since it's generally a harder CP to defend.
While thinking about ways to speed up the pace, you have to think how to add constant pressure on both sides. Turtling occurs because no one wants to take the first risky step that could put your team at 1 player disadvantage.

Well if its 6v6 even ubers the defending team can't really afford to push. But I think the stalemate in this situation is good cause it gives the attacking team options for how to approach last. Some options are:

1. Push on evens.
2. Sack a player. But you risk the defending team pushing you a player down.
3. Sack multiple players.
4. Give up the second point on purpose to hope they make a mistake.

So you see that there's enough strategic options to keep things interesting. I think that changing the timer limits the possibilities.

I also think the attacking team has enough of an advantage right now with respawn advantage. Giving them more would put too much emphasis on midfights, which I feel should just be a start to a longer round. Stalemates give the defending team a chance to setup and turn the round around, creating more interesting conflicts. Sure we have to wait around for the push to actually happen but in show business you call that "suspense".

Ban demoman