how did it take you a whole week of silence and only now are you rebutting the ban?
why dafuqwizat didn't cheat:
posted in
TF2 General Discussion
jediflamaster8 bad posts in a row... really?
how u post 8 times and miss all of em like man third times supposed to be a charm dude
[quote=jediflamaster]8 bad posts in a row... really?[/quote]
how u post 8 times and miss all of em like man third times supposed to be a charm dude
how u post 8 times and miss all of em like man third times supposed to be a charm dude
quintoshjediflamasterquintoshIf someone's ready to conduct in-depth research of AC evasion there are already multiple quite solid sources available for that. Knowing how cheaters are caught is also a powerful tool for people who don't cheat, and that's (at least I'd hope) the vast majority of the comp community. Having AC work validated encourages improvement in their accuracy and detection. I get that there's a tradeoff but I don't think it would be that bad at this point.jediflamasterYou must see how this lack of transparency can be abused. .
you must see how transparency can be abused and then come to the conclusion that there's not much benefit except for giving a couple people peace of mind
there are multiple resources on the internet showing how cheaters are caught, so you're not asking for the evidence to learn from it
with the current resources we're working with the trade-off in transparency is actually more negative for us than it ever was. assuming it'd just be the 1500 something demos i've watched and the 6-8k the whole staff watched in total are going into a case, i'd personally not have an issue with providing transparency even if there'll still be a bunch of fanboys bandwagoning and denying evidence beyond reasonable doubt just because they love attention and circlejerking. but providing current transparency also means we'd have to leak proprietary or private tools and other resources only available to us that lead to cheaters getting banned a lot of the time. and then it's pretty easy to stay under the rader compared to "just don't track players through a wall if you're wallhacking cause it's super suspicious in demos and people will look for it"
either trust us or don't. but as far as i know, no other tf2 league has an anticheat this experienced and with access to private resources, which is why other leagues/sites mirror our bans
fair enough why is ace still not banned then
[quote=quintosh][quote=jediflamaster][quote=quintosh][quote=jediflamaster]You must see how this lack of transparency can be abused. .[/quote]
you must see how transparency can be abused and then come to the conclusion that there's not much benefit except for giving a couple people peace of mind[/quote]
If someone's ready to conduct in-depth research of AC evasion there are already multiple quite solid sources available for that. Knowing how cheaters are caught is also a powerful tool for people who don't cheat, and that's (at least I'd hope) the vast majority of the comp community. Having AC work validated encourages improvement in their accuracy and detection. I get that there's a tradeoff but I don't think it would be that bad at this point.[/quote]
there are multiple resources on the internet showing how cheaters are caught, so you're not asking for the evidence to learn from it
with the current resources we're working with the trade-off in transparency is actually more negative for us than it ever was. assuming it'd just be the 1500 something demos i've watched and the 6-8k the whole staff watched in total are going into a case, i'd personally not have an issue with providing transparency even if there'll still be a bunch of fanboys bandwagoning and denying evidence beyond reasonable doubt just because they love attention and circlejerking. but providing current transparency also means we'd have to leak proprietary or private tools and other resources only available to us that lead to cheaters getting banned a lot of the time. and then it's pretty easy to stay under the rader compared to "just don't track players through a wall if you're wallhacking cause it's super suspicious in demos and people will look for it"
either trust us or don't. but as far as i know, no other tf2 league has an anticheat this experienced and with access to private resources, which is why other leagues/sites mirror our bans[/quote]
fair enough why is ace still not banned then
you must see how transparency can be abused and then come to the conclusion that there's not much benefit except for giving a couple people peace of mind[/quote]
If someone's ready to conduct in-depth research of AC evasion there are already multiple quite solid sources available for that. Knowing how cheaters are caught is also a powerful tool for people who don't cheat, and that's (at least I'd hope) the vast majority of the comp community. Having AC work validated encourages improvement in their accuracy and detection. I get that there's a tradeoff but I don't think it would be that bad at this point.[/quote]
there are multiple resources on the internet showing how cheaters are caught, so you're not asking for the evidence to learn from it
with the current resources we're working with the trade-off in transparency is actually more negative for us than it ever was. assuming it'd just be the 1500 something demos i've watched and the 6-8k the whole staff watched in total are going into a case, i'd personally not have an issue with providing transparency even if there'll still be a bunch of fanboys bandwagoning and denying evidence beyond reasonable doubt just because they love attention and circlejerking. but providing current transparency also means we'd have to leak proprietary or private tools and other resources only available to us that lead to cheaters getting banned a lot of the time. and then it's pretty easy to stay under the rader compared to "just don't track players through a wall if you're wallhacking cause it's super suspicious in demos and people will look for it"
either trust us or don't. but as far as i know, no other tf2 league has an anticheat this experienced and with access to private resources, which is why other leagues/sites mirror our bans[/quote]
fair enough why is ace still not banned then
How is it unreasonable to ask that the evidence the AC team convicted him on is shown to the public (or at least to him)?
How is it unreasonable to ask that the evidence the AC team convicted him on is shown to the public (or at least to him)?
drawdelHow is it unreasonable to ask that the evidence the AC team convicted him on is shown to the public (or at least to him)?
if hes about to cheat in the future, he will know exactly what to look out for
[quote=drawdel]How is it unreasonable to ask that the evidence the AC team convicted him on is shown to the public (or at least to him)?[/quote]
if hes about to cheat in the future, he will know exactly what to look out for
if hes about to cheat in the future, he will know exactly what to look out for
RockzdrawdelHow is it unreasonable to ask that the evidence the AC team convicted him on is shown to the public (or at least to him)?if hes about to cheat in the future, he will know exactly what to look out for
This is the dumbest shit I ever heard
What if this wasn't a ban and he was going to jail instead, how the fuck can you prove he is guilty without even proving it/providing evidence on the basis that "he might do it again" ?_?
You can sit here and talk about "private tools" which is bullshit, he should know exactly why he got banned and the evidence doesn't need your fancy "private tools" method to be shown, Admins claim they know which game got him banned but won't tell anyone which one it is? Like I said, if this was a prison sentence people would be going crazy because of the clear injustice being upheld here, but cos he MIGHT be hacking he's guilty until proven innocent? bullshit lol.
[quote=Rockz][quote=drawdel]How is it unreasonable to ask that the evidence the AC team convicted him on is shown to the public (or at least to him)?[/quote]
if hes about to cheat in the future, he will know exactly what to look out for[/quote]
This is the dumbest shit I ever heard
What if this wasn't a ban and he was going to jail instead, how the fuck can you prove he is guilty without even proving it/providing evidence on the basis that "he might do it again" ?_?
You can sit here and talk about "private tools" which is bullshit, he should know exactly why he got banned and the evidence doesn't need your fancy "private tools" method to be shown, Admins claim they know which game got him banned but won't tell anyone which one it is? Like I said, if this was a prison sentence people would be going crazy because of the clear injustice being upheld here, but cos he MIGHT be hacking he's guilty until proven innocent? bullshit lol.
if hes about to cheat in the future, he will know exactly what to look out for[/quote]
This is the dumbest shit I ever heard
What if this wasn't a ban and he was going to jail instead, how the fuck can you prove he is guilty without even proving it/providing evidence on the basis that "he might do it again" ?_?
You can sit here and talk about "private tools" which is bullshit, he should know exactly why he got banned and the evidence doesn't need your fancy "private tools" method to be shown, Admins claim they know which game got him banned but won't tell anyone which one it is? Like I said, if this was a prison sentence people would be going crazy because of the clear injustice being upheld here, but cos he MIGHT be hacking he's guilty until proven innocent? bullshit lol.
ya but hes not going to prison hes being banned from an online video game league
the team does have private tools they use to further determine whether or not someone cheats
also rockz is right but its more to do with other people knowing how to not get caught and wider knowledge of the more common ways the AC team catches people out
ya but hes not going to prison hes being banned from an online video game league
the team does have private tools they use to further determine whether or not someone cheats
also rockz is right but its more to do with other people knowing how to not get caught and wider knowledge of the more common ways the AC team catches people out
the team does have private tools they use to further determine whether or not someone cheats
also rockz is right but its more to do with other people knowing how to not get caught and wider knowledge of the more common ways the AC team catches people out
Point still stands wether he's being banned from a league or not, There needs to be evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to convict someone. Failure to provide said evidence means there is not evidence beyond a reasonable doubt anymore.
I'm not asking for them to show me a step by step guide of how they use their "private tools" to find people (mostly because I'm in high disbelief that these tools aren't already public knowledge to hack devs/counterable by them, fucking take 1 look at the state of pubs and tell me they aren't capable already) I'm asking for transparency on what is actually suspicious without the "private tools" being shown cos I'm still yet to see anything that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that he is guilty.
Point still stands wether he's being banned from a league or not, There needs to be evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to convict someone. Failure to provide said evidence means there is not evidence beyond a reasonable doubt anymore.
I'm not asking for them to show me a step by step guide of how they use their "private tools" to find people (mostly because I'm in high disbelief that these tools aren't already public knowledge to hack devs/counterable by them, fucking take 1 look at the state of pubs and tell me they aren't capable already) I'm asking for transparency on what is actually suspicious without the "private tools" being shown cos I'm still yet to see anything that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that he is guilty.
I'm not asking for them to show me a step by step guide of how they use their "private tools" to find people (mostly because I'm in high disbelief that these tools aren't already public knowledge to hack devs/counterable by them, fucking take 1 look at the state of pubs and tell me they aren't capable already) I'm asking for transparency on what is actually suspicious without the "private tools" being shown cos I'm still yet to see anything that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that he is guilty.
Sprite
Mate, every argument you spew out is more stupid than the last
Besides Clark already responded to your arguments on the previous page.
[quote=Sprite][/quote]
Mate, every argument you spew out is more stupid than the last
Besides Clark already responded to your arguments [b][i]on the previous page.[/i][/b]
Mate, every argument you spew out is more stupid than the last
Besides Clark already responded to your arguments [b][i]on the previous page.[/i][/b]
idk man, I get if he's your friend you're gonna be pissed or something and I understand defending a mate but I see no point in making a fuss about it. If he's banned for cheating its super likely they have actually tangible evidence from how I understand the current team works.
its not worth working yourself up over
idk man, I get if he's your friend you're gonna be pissed or something and I understand defending a mate but I see no point in making a fuss about it. If he's banned for cheating its super likely they have actually tangible evidence from how I understand the current team works.
its not worth working yourself up over
its not worth working yourself up over
SpritePoint still stands wether he's being banned from a league or not, There needs to be evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to convict someone. Failure to provide said evidence means there is not evidence beyond a reasonable doubt anymore.
I'm not asking for them to show me a step by step guide of how they use their "private tools" to find people (mostly because I'm in high disbelief that these tools aren't already public knowledge to hack devs/counterable by them, fucking take 1 look at the state of pubs and tell me they aren't capable already) I'm asking for transparency on what is actually suspicious without the "private tools" being shown cos I'm still yet to see anything that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that he is guilty.
Do you have any evidence to back up the insinuation that the tools are in fact not private and widely known among cheat developers?
[quote=Sprite]Point still stands wether he's being banned from a league or not, There needs to be evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to convict someone. Failure to provide said evidence means there is not evidence beyond a reasonable doubt anymore.
I'm not asking for them to show me a step by step guide of how they use their "private tools" to find people (mostly because I'm in high disbelief that these tools aren't already public knowledge to hack devs/counterable by them, fucking take 1 look at the state of pubs and tell me they aren't capable already) I'm asking for transparency on what is actually suspicious without the "private tools" being shown cos I'm still yet to see anything that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that he is guilty.[/quote]
Do you have any evidence to back up the insinuation that the tools are in fact not private and widely known among cheat developers?
I'm not asking for them to show me a step by step guide of how they use their "private tools" to find people (mostly because I'm in high disbelief that these tools aren't already public knowledge to hack devs/counterable by them, fucking take 1 look at the state of pubs and tell me they aren't capable already) I'm asking for transparency on what is actually suspicious without the "private tools" being shown cos I'm still yet to see anything that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that he is guilty.[/quote]
Do you have any evidence to back up the insinuation that the tools are in fact not private and widely known among cheat developers?
CollaideSpriteMate, every argument you spew out is more stupid than the last
Besides Clark already responded to your arguments on the previous page.
Clark is not an AC admin last time I checked(?), and has not provided actual sources to backup what he is saying, as well as some of it being circumstantial.
I'd also like you to actually explain how my argument is invalid.
Every and any kind of team that deals with things on more of a legality/rulebreaking side that gives out punishment is, in my opinion, definitely something that should be audited to make sure it isn't making mistakes because the severity of the admin team making a mistake here is a year ban, that's huge in this game.
ondkaja
Do you have any evidence to back up the insinuation that the tools are in fact not private and widely known among cheat developers?
Do you have any to backup they aren't? I never said I could prove it (not a cheat dev surprisingly) I just said it was 100% within their capabilities to be able to bypass such tools, as that is the very premise of hacking.
[quote=Collaide][quote=Sprite][/quote]
Mate, every argument you spew out is more stupid than the last
Besides Clark already responded to your arguments [b][i]on the previous page.[/i][/b][/quote]
Clark is not an AC admin last time I checked(?), and has not provided actual sources to backup what he is saying, as well as some of it being circumstantial.
I'd also like you to actually explain how my argument is invalid.
Every and any kind of team that deals with things on more of a legality/rulebreaking side that gives out punishment is, in my opinion, definitely something that should be audited to make sure it isn't making mistakes because the severity of the admin team making a mistake here is a year ban, that's huge in this game.
[quote=ondkaja]
Do you have any evidence to back up the insinuation that the tools are in fact not private and widely known among cheat developers?[/quote]
Do you have any to backup they aren't? I never said I could prove it (not a cheat dev surprisingly) I just said it was 100% within their capabilities to be able to bypass such tools, as that is the very premise of hacking.
Mate, every argument you spew out is more stupid than the last
Besides Clark already responded to your arguments [b][i]on the previous page.[/i][/b][/quote]
Clark is not an AC admin last time I checked(?), and has not provided actual sources to backup what he is saying, as well as some of it being circumstantial.
I'd also like you to actually explain how my argument is invalid.
Every and any kind of team that deals with things on more of a legality/rulebreaking side that gives out punishment is, in my opinion, definitely something that should be audited to make sure it isn't making mistakes because the severity of the admin team making a mistake here is a year ban, that's huge in this game.
[quote=ondkaja]
Do you have any evidence to back up the insinuation that the tools are in fact not private and widely known among cheat developers?[/quote]
Do you have any to backup they aren't? I never said I could prove it (not a cheat dev surprisingly) I just said it was 100% within their capabilities to be able to bypass such tools, as that is the very premise of hacking.
Sprite
Do you have any to backup they aren't? I never said I could prove it (not a cheat dev surprisingly) I just said it was 100% within their capabilities to be able to bypass such tools, as that is the very premise of hacking.
Well the fact that it is a private tool whose function and purpose are unknown, it would be pretty hard to design something to circumvent this tool, wouldn't it?
[quote=Sprite]
Do you have any to backup they aren't? I never said I could prove it (not a cheat dev surprisingly) I just said it was 100% within their capabilities to be able to bypass such tools, as that is the very premise of hacking.[/quote]
Well the fact that it is a private tool whose function and purpose are unknown, it would be pretty hard to design something to circumvent this tool, wouldn't it?
Do you have any to backup they aren't? I never said I could prove it (not a cheat dev surprisingly) I just said it was 100% within their capabilities to be able to bypass such tools, as that is the very premise of hacking.[/quote]
Well the fact that it is a private tool whose function and purpose are unknown, it would be pretty hard to design something to circumvent this tool, wouldn't it?
For those that are questioning why anti cheat tools are not released publicly for "proof" let me give you a real life example.
Most companies nowadays spend a large amount of their budget within cyber security - protecting private and restricted data (e.g. a list of all customer information - address/credit card info etc) This is why they employ ethical hackers, pen testers, cyber security teams to test their systems for vulnerabilities.
If a company has a very secure system that stops breaches of security to protect their valued data why would they release these details/make them public so that then hackers can understand the logic behind the security and find a way around it? The exact same thing can be said for cheaters in games - no eSports platform whether it is ESEA or FACEIT for example release the way their Anti-Cheat works and detects cheats, otherwise hackers that write their own custom cheats will find a way around this. You are essentially exploiting pockets/holes in the system when you cheat, if you had the source code it would be very easy to cheat just as if you knew where all the "tripwires" in the Anti-Cheat were, you would be able to get around it a lot easier.
For those that are questioning why anti cheat tools are not released publicly for "proof" let me give you a real life example.
Most companies nowadays spend a large amount of their budget within cyber security - protecting private and restricted data (e.g. a list of all customer information - address/credit card info etc) This is why they employ ethical hackers, pen testers, cyber security teams to test their systems for vulnerabilities.
If a company has a very secure system that stops breaches of security to protect their valued data why would they release these details/make them public so that then hackers can understand the logic behind the security and find a way around it? The exact same thing can be said for cheaters in games - no eSports platform whether it is ESEA or FACEIT for example release the way their Anti-Cheat works and detects cheats, otherwise hackers that write their own custom cheats will find a way around this. You are essentially exploiting pockets/holes in the system when you cheat, if you had the source code it would be very easy to cheat just as if you knew where all the "tripwires" in the Anti-Cheat were, you would be able to get around it a lot easier.
Most companies nowadays spend a large amount of their budget within cyber security - protecting private and restricted data (e.g. a list of all customer information - address/credit card info etc) This is why they employ ethical hackers, pen testers, cyber security teams to test their systems for vulnerabilities.
If a company has a very secure system that stops breaches of security to protect their valued data why would they release these details/make them public so that then hackers can understand the logic behind the security and find a way around it? The exact same thing can be said for cheaters in games - no eSports platform whether it is ESEA or FACEIT for example release the way their Anti-Cheat works and detects cheats, otherwise hackers that write their own custom cheats will find a way around this. You are essentially exploiting pockets/holes in the system when you cheat, if you had the source code it would be very easy to cheat just as if you knew where all the "tripwires" in the Anti-Cheat were, you would be able to get around it a lot easier.
TwiggyFinally some activity around here
https://media1.tenor.com/images/54451401d52c0dd2fe9ee5752857d53c/tenor.gif?itemid=3579864
I mean, he got downfragged for this, but it's getting better.
[quote=Twiggy]Finally some activity around here
[img]https://media1.tenor.com/images/54451401d52c0dd2fe9ee5752857d53c/tenor.gif?itemid=3579864[/img][/quote]
I mean, he got downfragged for this, but it's getting better.
[img]https://media1.tenor.com/images/54451401d52c0dd2fe9ee5752857d53c/tenor.gif?itemid=3579864[/img][/quote]
I mean, he got downfragged for this, but it's getting better.
I mean as Clark points out, first you have to respect the people that runs this league in which you care so much to participate in apparently.
Secondly, you've always been fishy, and as someone who loves to abuse every mechanic of the game, i've always asked the admins before trying in any matches/ scrim. you should have tried to do it as well.
Thirdly, it's a ban in a video game, made clear from people who loves tf2 and its competition. Get over it.
cheating in a game that is community based and there's no money, getting caught and blaming the admins, bruh you're being pathetic
I mean as Clark points out, first you have to respect the people that runs this league in which you care so much to participate in apparently.
Secondly, you've always been fishy, and as someone who loves to abuse every mechanic of the game, i've always asked the admins before trying in any matches/ scrim. you should have tried to do it as well.
Thirdly, it's a ban in a video game, made clear from people who loves tf2 and its competition. Get over it.
cheating in a game that is community based and there's no money, getting caught and blaming the admins, bruh you're being pathetic
Secondly, you've always been fishy, and as someone who loves to abuse every mechanic of the game, i've always asked the admins before trying in any matches/ scrim. you should have tried to do it as well.
Thirdly, it's a ban in a video game, made clear from people who loves tf2 and its competition. Get over it.
cheating in a game that is community based and there's no money, getting caught and blaming the admins, bruh you're being pathetic
dishsoapjediflamaster8 bad posts in a row... really?how u post 8 times and miss all of em like man third times supposed to be a charm dude
What do you even mean by "miss"?
[quote=dishsoap][quote=jediflamaster]8 bad posts in a row... really?[/quote]
how u post 8 times and miss all of em like man third times supposed to be a charm dude[/quote]
What do you even mean by "miss"?
how u post 8 times and miss all of em like man third times supposed to be a charm dude[/quote]
What do you even mean by "miss"?
SpriteClark is not an AC admin last time I checked(?), and has not provided actual sources to backup what he is saying, as well as some of it being circumstantial.
What claim is it that you don't believe? How about starting with that?
SpriteI'd also like you to actually explain how my argument is invalid.
Reading comprehension mate - he and others have explained it.
Sprite a year ban, that's huge in this game.
The integrity of the AC team is way higher than mr "dafuqwizat". A year ban for actively searching for a cheat, downloading it, installing it, and using it is IMO too leanient. A year ban for cheating is NOTHING.
In other games you get hardware banned and/or permabanned from competing.
[quote=Sprite]Clark is not an AC admin last time I checked(?), and has not provided actual sources to backup what he is saying, as well as some of it being circumstantial.[/quote]
What claim is it that you don't believe? How about starting with that?
[quote=Sprite]I'd also like you to actually explain how my argument is invalid.[/quote]
Reading comprehension mate - he and others have explained it.
[quote=Sprite] a year ban, that's huge in this game.[/quote]
The integrity of the AC team is way higher than mr "dafuqwizat". A year ban for actively searching for a cheat, downloading it, installing it, and using it is IMO too leanient. A year ban for cheating is NOTHING.
In other games you get hardware banned and/or permabanned from competing.
What claim is it that you don't believe? How about starting with that?
[quote=Sprite]I'd also like you to actually explain how my argument is invalid.[/quote]
Reading comprehension mate - he and others have explained it.
[quote=Sprite] a year ban, that's huge in this game.[/quote]
The integrity of the AC team is way higher than mr "dafuqwizat". A year ban for actively searching for a cheat, downloading it, installing it, and using it is IMO too leanient. A year ban for cheating is NOTHING.
In other games you get hardware banned and/or permabanned from competing.
Collaide In other games you get hardware banned and/or permabanned from competing.
I mean with the Olympics it's a 4 year ban for PEDs;they give a competitor an unfair advantage. I agree a year ban for a community driven competitive online game for pretty much the equivalent ain't that bad.
[quote=Collaide] In other games you get hardware banned and/or permabanned from competing.[/quote]
I mean with the Olympics it's a 4 year ban for PEDs;they give a competitor an unfair advantage. I agree a year ban for a community driven competitive online game for pretty much the equivalent ain't that bad.
I mean with the Olympics it's a 4 year ban for PEDs;they give a competitor an unfair advantage. I agree a year ban for a community driven competitive online game for pretty much the equivalent ain't that bad.
CollaideSpriteClark is not an AC admin last time I checked(?), and has not provided actual sources to backup what he is saying, as well as some of it being circumstantial.What claim is it that you don't believe? How about starting with that?
SpriteI'd also like you to actually explain how my argument is invalid.Reading comprehension mate - he and others have explained it.
I never claimed to disbelieve anything, I simply asked for proof and sources of what is being claimed as they still haven't been provided.
I also asked YOU for YOUR response, not someone else.
Don't read my posts as if I'm trying solely to defend this one person, I'm attacking the system in general because the "integrity" is based on guesswork of the teams caricature, and currently seem to be withholding crucial evidence for this investigation based on how secretive they want to be with the information.
[quote=Collaide][quote=Sprite]Clark is not an AC admin last time I checked(?), and has not provided actual sources to backup what he is saying, as well as some of it being circumstantial.[/quote]
What claim is it that you don't believe? How about starting with that?
[quote=Sprite]I'd also like you to actually explain how my argument is invalid.[/quote]
Reading comprehension mate - he and others have explained it.
[/quote]
I never claimed to disbelieve anything, I simply asked for proof and sources of what is being claimed as they still haven't been provided.
I also asked YOU for YOUR response, not someone else.
Don't read my posts as if I'm trying solely to defend this one person, I'm attacking the system in general because the "integrity" is based on guesswork of the teams caricature, and currently seem to be withholding crucial evidence for this investigation based on how secretive they want to be with the information.
What claim is it that you don't believe? How about starting with that?
[quote=Sprite]I'd also like you to actually explain how my argument is invalid.[/quote]
Reading comprehension mate - he and others have explained it.
[/quote]
I never claimed to disbelieve anything, I simply asked for proof and sources of what is being claimed as they still haven't been provided.
I also asked YOU for YOUR response, not someone else.
Don't read my posts as if I'm trying solely to defend this one person, I'm attacking the system in general because the "integrity" is based on guesswork of the teams caricature, and currently seem to be withholding crucial evidence for this investigation based on how secretive they want to be with the information.
I have never seen a ban where so many people are unsure whether or not the guy actually hacked and I think the way ETF2L is run lately plays a big part into that.
- It was weird he was banned from TF2Center a year before his ETF2L ban because of an AC admin.
- It was weird that the Head AC admin made a twitter post celebrating his ban and then streamed immediately after referencing the ban to get more viewers.
- It was weird that everyone knew they wanted him banned for the last 6 months
The AC admins are meant to be seen as neutral and when you start doing stuff like that you are undermining that neutrality. Oh and maybe change the rules regarding demos as they aren't fit for purpose anymore (too easily dodged and/or abused by the enemy team).
I have never seen a ban where so many people are unsure whether or not the guy actually hacked and I think the way ETF2L is run lately plays a big part into that.
[list]
[*] It was weird he was banned from TF2Center a year before his ETF2L ban because of an AC admin.
[*] It was weird that the Head AC admin made a twitter post celebrating his ban and then streamed immediately after referencing the ban to get more viewers.
[*] It was weird that everyone knew they wanted him banned for the last 6 months
[/list]
The AC admins are meant to be seen as neutral and when you start doing stuff like that you are undermining that neutrality. Oh and maybe change the rules regarding demos as they aren't fit for purpose anymore (too easily dodged and/or abused by the enemy team).
[list]
[*] It was weird he was banned from TF2Center a year before his ETF2L ban because of an AC admin.
[*] It was weird that the Head AC admin made a twitter post celebrating his ban and then streamed immediately after referencing the ban to get more viewers.
[*] It was weird that everyone knew they wanted him banned for the last 6 months
[/list]
The AC admins are meant to be seen as neutral and when you start doing stuff like that you are undermining that neutrality. Oh and maybe change the rules regarding demos as they aren't fit for purpose anymore (too easily dodged and/or abused by the enemy team).
SpriteI never claimed to disbelieve anything, I simply asked for proof and sources of what is being claimed as they still haven't been provided.
Okay if you believe in the decision why are you arguing?
SpriteI also asked YOU for YOUR response, not someone else.
Don't read my posts as if I'm trying solely to defend this one person, I'm attacking the system in general because the "integrity" is based on guesswork of the teams caricature, and currently seem to be withholding crucial evidence for this investigation based on how secretive they want to be with the information.
What makes you think it's based on guesswork? You saying that it's based on guesswork shows you actually have no idea how cheaters are caught lmao.
I dug up the posts you ignored:
ClarkDebating the validity of AC team decisions means undermining all the work that's been done in the past several years to catch cheaters and it's a really dangerous ground to thread on. There's nothing wrong with questioning the authority, only the thing is - this current AC team has so far given no indication we should doubt their integrity or professionalism.
quintoshyou must see how transparency can be abused and then come to the conclusion that there's not much benefit except for giving a couple people peace of mind
[...]
with the current resources we're working with the trade-off in transparency is actually more negative for us than it ever was. assuming it'd just be the 1500 something demos i've watched and the 6-8k the whole staff watched in total are going into a case, i'd personally not have an issue with providing transparency even if there'll still be a bunch of fanboys bandwagoning and denying evidence beyond reasonable doubt just because they love attention and circlejerking. but providing current transparency also means we'd have to leak proprietary or private tools and other resources only available to us that lead to cheaters getting banned a lot of the time. and then it's pretty easy to stay under the rader compared to "just don't track players through a wall if you're wallhacking cause it's super suspicious in demos and people will look for it"
either trust us or don't. but as far as i know, no other tf2 league has an anticheat this experienced and with access to private resources, which is why other leagues/sites mirror our bans
[quote=Sprite]
I never claimed to disbelieve anything, I simply asked for proof and sources of what is being claimed as they still haven't been provided. [/quote]
Okay if you believe in the decision why are you arguing?
[quote=Sprite]
I also asked YOU for YOUR response, not someone else.
Don't read my posts as if I'm trying solely to defend this one person, I'm attacking the system in general because the "integrity" is based on guesswork of the teams caricature, and currently seem to be withholding crucial evidence for this investigation based on how secretive they want to be with the information.[/quote]
What makes you think it's based on guesswork? You saying that it's based on guesswork shows you actually have no idea how cheaters are caught lmao.
I dug up the posts you ignored:
[quote=Clark]Debating the validity of AC team decisions means undermining all the work that's been done in the past several years to catch cheaters and it's a really dangerous ground to thread on. There's nothing wrong with questioning the authority, only the thing is - this current AC team has so far given no indication we should doubt their integrity or professionalism.[/quote]
[quote=quintosh]you must see how transparency can be abused and then come to the conclusion that there's not much benefit except for giving a couple people peace of mind
[...]
with the current resources we're working with the trade-off in transparency is actually more negative for us than it ever was. assuming it'd just be the 1500 something demos i've watched and the 6-8k the whole staff watched in total are going into a case, i'd personally not have an issue with providing transparency even if there'll still be a bunch of fanboys bandwagoning and denying evidence beyond reasonable doubt just because they love attention and circlejerking. but providing current transparency also means we'd have to leak proprietary or private tools and other resources only available to us that lead to cheaters getting banned a lot of the time. and then it's pretty easy to stay under the rader compared to "just don't track players through a wall if you're wallhacking cause it's super suspicious in demos and people will look for it"
either trust us or don't. but as far as i know, no other tf2 league has an anticheat this experienced and with access to private resources, which is why other leagues/sites mirror our bans
[/quote]
I never claimed to disbelieve anything, I simply asked for proof and sources of what is being claimed as they still haven't been provided. [/quote]
Okay if you believe in the decision why are you arguing?
[quote=Sprite]
I also asked YOU for YOUR response, not someone else.
Don't read my posts as if I'm trying solely to defend this one person, I'm attacking the system in general because the "integrity" is based on guesswork of the teams caricature, and currently seem to be withholding crucial evidence for this investigation based on how secretive they want to be with the information.[/quote]
What makes you think it's based on guesswork? You saying that it's based on guesswork shows you actually have no idea how cheaters are caught lmao.
I dug up the posts you ignored:
[quote=Clark]Debating the validity of AC team decisions means undermining all the work that's been done in the past several years to catch cheaters and it's a really dangerous ground to thread on. There's nothing wrong with questioning the authority, only the thing is - this current AC team has so far given no indication we should doubt their integrity or professionalism.[/quote]
[quote=quintosh]you must see how transparency can be abused and then come to the conclusion that there's not much benefit except for giving a couple people peace of mind
[...]
with the current resources we're working with the trade-off in transparency is actually more negative for us than it ever was. assuming it'd just be the 1500 something demos i've watched and the 6-8k the whole staff watched in total are going into a case, i'd personally not have an issue with providing transparency even if there'll still be a bunch of fanboys bandwagoning and denying evidence beyond reasonable doubt just because they love attention and circlejerking. but providing current transparency also means we'd have to leak proprietary or private tools and other resources only available to us that lead to cheaters getting banned a lot of the time. and then it's pretty easy to stay under the rader compared to "just don't track players through a wall if you're wallhacking cause it's super suspicious in demos and people will look for it"
either trust us or don't. but as far as i know, no other tf2 league has an anticheat this experienced and with access to private resources, which is why other leagues/sites mirror our bans
[/quote]
Collaidewords
Am I not allowed to question the process suddenly? You've just repeated what you said before and completely missed the point and dodged my question. I say it's guesswork because I'm not seeing actual fucking proof to prove it's not just people in a discord going "ehh maybe"
I'm requesting to see actual evidence. Sitting here citing how transparency doesn't help the admins doesn't prove his guilt and like I said previously, I never asked to see their tools, I want to see the hard concrete proof that he is guilty.
[quote=Collaide]words[/quote]
Am I not allowed to question the process suddenly? You've just repeated what you said before and completely missed the point and dodged my question. I say it's guesswork because I'm not seeing actual fucking proof to prove it's not just people in a discord going "ehh maybe"
I'm requesting to see actual evidence. Sitting here citing how transparency doesn't help the admins doesn't prove his guilt and like I said previously, I never asked to see their tools, I want to see the hard concrete proof that he is guilty.
Am I not allowed to question the process suddenly? You've just repeated what you said before and completely missed the point and dodged my question. I say it's guesswork because I'm not seeing actual fucking proof to prove it's not just people in a discord going "ehh maybe"
I'm requesting to see actual evidence. Sitting here citing how transparency doesn't help the admins doesn't prove his guilt and like I said previously, I never asked to see their tools, I want to see the hard concrete proof that he is guilty.
Sprite
You literally ignored everything I just said
You falsely claim I say you're not allowed to question it
And you repeat the same shit again
Shut the fuck up fam, you're trolling or you're incurably stupid
[quote=Sprite][/quote]
You literally ignored everything I just said
You falsely claim I say you're not allowed to question it
And you repeat the same shit again
Shut the fuck up fam, you're trolling or you're incurably stupid
You literally ignored everything I just said
You falsely claim I say you're not allowed to question it
And you repeat the same shit again
Shut the fuck up fam, you're trolling or you're incurably stupid
CollaideOkay if you believe in the decision why are you arguing?
How is this not claiming I can't question it?
But sure man start throwing insults, real mature :)
I've yet to see the ACTUAL EVIDENCE not just word of mouth, link sources, screenshots, demos etc I wanna see them.
[quote=Collaide]
Okay if you believe in the decision why are you arguing?
[/quote]
How is this not claiming I can't question it?
But sure man start throwing insults, real mature :)
I've yet to see the ACTUAL EVIDENCE not just word of mouth, link sources, screenshots, demos etc I wanna see them.
Okay if you believe in the decision why are you arguing?
[/quote]
How is this not claiming I can't question it?
But sure man start throwing insults, real mature :)
I've yet to see the ACTUAL EVIDENCE not just word of mouth, link sources, screenshots, demos etc I wanna see them.
SpriteWhat if this wasn't a ban and he was going to jail instead
SpriteCollaidewords
Am I not allowed to question the process suddenly?
you are allowed to question the process but it's not getting you anywhere because you just won't see the evidence regardless of how much it means to you. i already told you why we're not releasing it and that's not going to change in this case either. he's not going to prison and he's not locked up in a cell for an entire year where only we decide when he can walk around, when and what he's eating and when and who he can talk to at any point. he's not allowed to enter, that's it. no business will show you where their hidden cameras are and who their undercover people are who caught someone trying to steal shit from their store just because you just really want to know how they caught him. if you don't trust their decision you can feel free to move on and buy elsewhere.
except in that analogy it'd only be the business risking more damage from thievery by releasing their means to catch someone in the act and in etf2l's case it's you and other legit players who'd get to enjoy playing with/against better cheaters in the future. it seems you'd prefer that so don't ask other people why you're not allowed to question the process "suddenly"
[quote=Sprite]
What if this wasn't a ban and he was going to jail instead
[/quote]
[quote=Sprite][quote=Collaide]words[/quote]
Am I not allowed to question the process suddenly?
[/quote]
you are allowed to question the process but it's not getting you anywhere because you just won't see the evidence regardless of how much it means to you. i already told you why we're not releasing it and that's not going to change in this case either. he's not going to prison and he's not locked up in a cell for an entire year where only we decide when he can walk around, when and what he's eating and when and who he can talk to at any point. he's not allowed to enter, that's it. no business will show you where their hidden cameras are and who their undercover people are who caught someone trying to steal shit from their store just because you just really want to know how they caught him. if you don't trust their decision you can feel free to move on and buy elsewhere.
except in that analogy it'd only be the business risking more damage from thievery by releasing their means to catch someone in the act and in etf2l's case it's you and other legit players who'd get to enjoy playing with/against better cheaters in the future. it seems you'd prefer that so don't ask other people why you're not allowed to question the process "suddenly"
What if this wasn't a ban and he was going to jail instead
[/quote]
[quote=Sprite][quote=Collaide]words[/quote]
Am I not allowed to question the process suddenly?
[/quote]
you are allowed to question the process but it's not getting you anywhere because you just won't see the evidence regardless of how much it means to you. i already told you why we're not releasing it and that's not going to change in this case either. he's not going to prison and he's not locked up in a cell for an entire year where only we decide when he can walk around, when and what he's eating and when and who he can talk to at any point. he's not allowed to enter, that's it. no business will show you where their hidden cameras are and who their undercover people are who caught someone trying to steal shit from their store just because you just really want to know how they caught him. if you don't trust their decision you can feel free to move on and buy elsewhere.
except in that analogy it'd only be the business risking more damage from thievery by releasing their means to catch someone in the act and in etf2l's case it's you and other legit players who'd get to enjoy playing with/against better cheaters in the future. it seems you'd prefer that so don't ask other people why you're not allowed to question the process "suddenly"
I literally work in security your shop analogy is bs lmao you have to be licensed for cameras and they have a right to know they're being recorded.
Like I said, the secrecy of it is what has caught my curiosity. You linked to a post from someone who isn't part of the AC team, why is he's your spokesperson? And you yourself didn't actually give a legitimate reason other than TrAnSpaReNcY iS BAd and referring to people who scrutinise you as "attention-seeking fanboys" You can't tell me you can prove that he's guilty and not then actually prove it. It doesn't work like that.
I literally work in security your shop analogy is bs lmao you have to be licensed for cameras and they have a right to know they're being recorded.
Like I said, the secrecy of it is what has caught my curiosity. You linked to a post from someone who isn't part of the AC team, why is he's your spokesperson? And you yourself didn't actually give a legitimate reason other than TrAnSpaReNcY iS BAd and referring to people who scrutinise you as "attention-seeking fanboys" You can't tell me you can prove that he's guilty and not then actually prove it. It doesn't work like that.
Like I said, the secrecy of it is what has caught my curiosity. You linked to a post from someone who isn't part of the AC team, why is he's your spokesperson? And you yourself didn't actually give a legitimate reason other than TrAnSpaReNcY iS BAd and referring to people who scrutinise you as "attention-seeking fanboys" You can't tell me you can prove that he's guilty and not then actually prove it. It doesn't work like that.
guilty or not you can't do shit anyway, just get over it
guilty or not you can't do shit anyway, just get over it
SpriteI literally work in security your shop analogy is bs lmao you have to be licensed for cameras and they have a right to know they're being recorded.
Like I said, the secrecy of it is what has caught my curiosity. You linked to a post from someone who isn't part of the AC team, why is he's your spokesperson? And you yourself didn't actually give a legitimate reason other than TrAnSpaReNcY iS BAd and referring to people who scrutinise you as "attention-seeking fanboys" You can't tell me you can prove that he's guilty and not then actually prove it. It doesn't work like that.
In all of the shops in my town with security cameras they have big circles painted on the ground to show where the cameras point just for the transparency of it, I mean it wouldn't be fair on the thieves if they didn't have blind spots to stand in right?
[quote=Sprite]I literally work in security your shop analogy is bs lmao you have to be licensed for cameras and they have a right to know they're being recorded.
Like I said, the secrecy of it is what has caught my curiosity. You linked to a post from someone who isn't part of the AC team, why is he's your spokesperson? And you yourself didn't actually give a legitimate reason other than TrAnSpaReNcY iS BAd and referring to people who scrutinise you as "attention-seeking fanboys" You can't tell me you can prove that he's guilty and not then actually prove it. It doesn't work like that.[/quote]
In all of the shops in my town with security cameras they have big circles painted on the ground to show where the cameras point just for the transparency of it, I mean it wouldn't be fair on the thieves if they didn't have blind spots to stand in right?
Like I said, the secrecy of it is what has caught my curiosity. You linked to a post from someone who isn't part of the AC team, why is he's your spokesperson? And you yourself didn't actually give a legitimate reason other than TrAnSpaReNcY iS BAd and referring to people who scrutinise you as "attention-seeking fanboys" You can't tell me you can prove that he's guilty and not then actually prove it. It doesn't work like that.[/quote]
In all of the shops in my town with security cameras they have big circles painted on the ground to show where the cameras point just for the transparency of it, I mean it wouldn't be fair on the thieves if they didn't have blind spots to stand in right?
SpriteYou linked to a post from someone who isn't part of the AC team, why is he's your spokesperson?
?
SpriteYou can't tell me you can prove that he's guilty and not then actually prove it. It doesn't work like that.
where did I say that
SpriteI literally work in security your shop analogy is bs
as bs as your prison analogy
[quote=Sprite]You linked to a post from someone who isn't part of the AC team, why is he's your spokesperson?[/quote]
?
[quote=Sprite]You can't tell me you can prove that he's guilty and not then actually prove it. It doesn't work like that.[/quote]
where did I say that
[quote=Sprite]I literally work in security your shop analogy is bs[/quote]
as bs as your prison analogy
?
[quote=Sprite]You can't tell me you can prove that he's guilty and not then actually prove it. It doesn't work like that.[/quote]
where did I say that
[quote=Sprite]I literally work in security your shop analogy is bs[/quote]
as bs as your prison analogy
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