alfaGoing forward RGL will require each invite player to submit their Ancestry.com results 1 week before the league starts.
rgl admins giving me the n word pass once they see my 2% north african ancestry due to half my family being from sicily
Discussion: rgl is bad
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TF2 General Discussion
[quote=alfa]Going forward RGL will require each invite player to submit their Ancestry.com results 1 week before the league starts.[/quote]
rgl admins giving me the n word pass once they see my 2% north african ancestry due to half my family being from sicily
[img]https://puu.sh/Hi5aX/9f0aceb43a.jpg[/img]
rgl admins giving me the n word pass once they see my 2% north african ancestry due to half my family being from sicily
[img]https://puu.sh/Hi5aX/9f0aceb43a.jpg[/img]
EntropyTFAs a start can we stop just combing through logs looking for infractions? I can't think of a circumstance where a ban should come from anything but a report.
These bans do come from reports. The MAL player ban came from a report. In my 5 seasons working at RGL, I've seen a single staff member (not even a 6s admin) comb through logs, and they were removed from the organization over a year ago for that and similar problems. We've even warned league players for combing specific players' and teams' logs for infractions, which is a form of witch-hunting and prohibited. If you actually read any of RGL's articles, you'd see that in almost every single article related to bans, we put in brightly colored text that we only ban off reports. The most recent article, which you should go read because clearly you haven't, mentions it. If a player is banned, it is because they were reported.
EntropyTFIf the admins can't even tell a map review from a scrim they're clearly going to be missing context on everything else as well.
In many hundreds of reports we've handled with logs, this is the first time anything like this has occurred. Logs.tf does not display timestamps, and we have no good reason to assume chat messages in the log did not happen during pregame or the scrim, as you can see in the log here. When the rare odd edge cases like this happen, we have an appeals process to handle it, which worked as it should and the players were unbanned (due to the high-profile nature of the MAL case, we took a bit more time to figure out our response internally before rolling back the bans).
[quote=EntropyTF]As a start can we stop just combing through logs looking for infractions? I can't think of a circumstance where a ban should come from anything but a report.[/quote]
These bans [i]do[/i] come from reports. [i]The MAL player ban[/i] came from a report. In my 5 seasons working at RGL, I've seen a single staff member (not even a 6s admin) comb through logs, and they were removed from the organization over a year ago for that and similar problems. We've even warned league players for combing specific players' and teams' logs for infractions, which is a form of witch-hunting and prohibited. If you actually read any of RGL's articles, you'd see that in almost every single article related to bans, we put in brightly colored text that we only ban off reports. [url=https://rgl.gg/Public/Articles/Default.aspx?a=1512&r=40]The most recent article[/url], which you should go read because clearly you haven't, mentions it. [i][b]If a player is banned, it is because they were reported.[/b][/i]
[quote=EntropyTF]If the admins can't even tell a map review from a scrim they're clearly going to be missing context on everything else as well.[/quote]
In many hundreds of reports we've handled with logs, this is the first time anything like this has occurred. Logs.tf does not display timestamps, and we have no good reason to assume chat messages in the log did not happen during pregame or the scrim, as you can see in the log [url=https://logs.tf/2832222]here[/url]. When the rare odd edge cases like this happen, we have an appeals process to handle it, which worked as it should and the players were unbanned (due to the high-profile nature of the MAL case, we took a bit more time to figure out our response internally before rolling back the bans).
These bans [i]do[/i] come from reports. [i]The MAL player ban[/i] came from a report. In my 5 seasons working at RGL, I've seen a single staff member (not even a 6s admin) comb through logs, and they were removed from the organization over a year ago for that and similar problems. We've even warned league players for combing specific players' and teams' logs for infractions, which is a form of witch-hunting and prohibited. If you actually read any of RGL's articles, you'd see that in almost every single article related to bans, we put in brightly colored text that we only ban off reports. [url=https://rgl.gg/Public/Articles/Default.aspx?a=1512&r=40]The most recent article[/url], which you should go read because clearly you haven't, mentions it. [i][b]If a player is banned, it is because they were reported.[/b][/i]
[quote=EntropyTF]If the admins can't even tell a map review from a scrim they're clearly going to be missing context on everything else as well.[/quote]
In many hundreds of reports we've handled with logs, this is the first time anything like this has occurred. Logs.tf does not display timestamps, and we have no good reason to assume chat messages in the log did not happen during pregame or the scrim, as you can see in the log [url=https://logs.tf/2832222]here[/url]. When the rare odd edge cases like this happen, we have an appeals process to handle it, which worked as it should and the players were unbanned (due to the high-profile nature of the MAL case, we took a bit more time to figure out our response internally before rolling back the bans).
DubThink
Out of curiosity, did the report contain a screenshot of the chat somehow? or was the report simply a link to the logs.tf page? and if the report was just link to the logs.tf page, would it not make sense to do some kind of follow up and ask for a screenshot or VOD from the scrim itself? This is a genuine question because right now it seems like there was just no due diligence done. Especially if the ban is going to result in potentially killing one of the few top-level teams, it seems like more effort should have been put in to verifying the information before the ban, rather than waiting until after the ban to find out if there is any extenuating circumstances. As someone who's been on the wrong end of the RGL ban hammer, I know that there at least used to be someone on the admin team that reviewed these bans and made exceptions for extenuating circumstances, is there a reason no such effort was put in for these bans?
I know that what you guys are doing is difficult and time consuming, but your methodology seems like it's at exactly the same level I would expect from an apathetic college student doing a project for a class he hates: in other words, the bare minimum. If you guys want people to stop bitching, stop giving them shit to bitch about. Make sure your shit is water-tight before you let it out into the wild. How many times are you guys gonna think something halfway through, put it out into the wild, and then walk it back when someone points out an obvious mistake you guys have made because you didn't do any due-diligence? How many "we made a mistake" posts are you gonna make before someone steps up and says "we are done with these fuck-ups. TF2 deserves a league with enough respect for its players to put in more than the bare minimum of effort."
If you wanna know why nobody respects you and nobody wants to sponsor you, that's your reason. It's not players saying slurs in what should be unmoderated environs, it's the fact that you keep fucking up and letting TFTV bitch-fits make you walk back on your mistakes. We're what, halfway through the season? and we're already at two "we're sowwy" posts for the season, and I've lost track of how many goofs ya'll have made since ESEA died, let alone before then (FROYO banned for winning too much lol). I mean how much of a joke do you guys have to become before some actual institutional changes get made?
[quote=DubThink][/quote]
Out of curiosity, did the report contain a screenshot of the chat somehow? or was the report simply a link to the logs.tf page? and if the report was just link to the logs.tf page, would it not make sense to do some kind of follow up and ask for a screenshot or VOD from the scrim itself? This is a genuine question because right now it seems like there was just no due diligence done. Especially if the ban is going to result in potentially killing one of the few top-level teams, it seems like more effort should have been put in to verifying the information [i]before[/i] the ban, rather than waiting until after the ban to find out if there is any extenuating circumstances. As someone who's been on the wrong end of the RGL ban hammer, I know that there at least used to be someone on the admin team that reviewed these bans and made exceptions for extenuating circumstances, is there a reason no such effort was put in for these bans?
I know that what you guys are doing is difficult and time consuming, but your methodology seems like it's at exactly the same level I would expect from an apathetic college student doing a project for a class he hates: in other words, the bare minimum. If you guys want people to stop bitching, stop giving them shit to bitch about. Make sure your shit is water-tight before you let it out into the wild. How many times are you guys gonna think something halfway through, put it out into the wild, and then walk it back when someone points out an obvious mistake you guys have made because you didn't do any due-diligence? How many "we made a mistake" posts are you gonna make before someone steps up and says "we are done with these fuck-ups. TF2 deserves a league with enough respect for its players to put in more than the bare minimum of effort."
If you wanna know why nobody respects you and nobody wants to sponsor you, that's your reason. It's not players saying slurs in what should be unmoderated environs, it's the fact that you keep fucking up and letting TFTV bitch-fits make you walk back on your mistakes. We're what, halfway through the season? and we're already at two "we're sowwy" posts for the season, and I've lost track of how many goofs ya'll have made since ESEA died, let alone before then (FROYO banned for winning too much lol). I mean how much of a joke do you guys have to become before some actual institutional changes get made?
Out of curiosity, did the report contain a screenshot of the chat somehow? or was the report simply a link to the logs.tf page? and if the report was just link to the logs.tf page, would it not make sense to do some kind of follow up and ask for a screenshot or VOD from the scrim itself? This is a genuine question because right now it seems like there was just no due diligence done. Especially if the ban is going to result in potentially killing one of the few top-level teams, it seems like more effort should have been put in to verifying the information [i]before[/i] the ban, rather than waiting until after the ban to find out if there is any extenuating circumstances. As someone who's been on the wrong end of the RGL ban hammer, I know that there at least used to be someone on the admin team that reviewed these bans and made exceptions for extenuating circumstances, is there a reason no such effort was put in for these bans?
I know that what you guys are doing is difficult and time consuming, but your methodology seems like it's at exactly the same level I would expect from an apathetic college student doing a project for a class he hates: in other words, the bare minimum. If you guys want people to stop bitching, stop giving them shit to bitch about. Make sure your shit is water-tight before you let it out into the wild. How many times are you guys gonna think something halfway through, put it out into the wild, and then walk it back when someone points out an obvious mistake you guys have made because you didn't do any due-diligence? How many "we made a mistake" posts are you gonna make before someone steps up and says "we are done with these fuck-ups. TF2 deserves a league with enough respect for its players to put in more than the bare minimum of effort."
If you wanna know why nobody respects you and nobody wants to sponsor you, that's your reason. It's not players saying slurs in what should be unmoderated environs, it's the fact that you keep fucking up and letting TFTV bitch-fits make you walk back on your mistakes. We're what, halfway through the season? and we're already at two "we're sowwy" posts for the season, and I've lost track of how many goofs ya'll have made since ESEA died, let alone before then (FROYO banned for winning too much lol). I mean how much of a joke do you guys have to become before some actual institutional changes get made?
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