So Cbear linked this chat between Enigma and Sal on a new type of 6v6 and a new league, thoughts?
New kind of 6v6?
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TF2 General Discussion
http://pastebin.com/G2kxjMVR
So Cbear linked this chat between Enigma and Sal on a new type of 6v6 and a new league, thoughts?
So Cbear linked this chat between Enigma and Sal on a new type of 6v6 and a new league, thoughts?
Sounds in a way like doing everything all over again because apparently Robin Walker didn't pay attention the first time.
Sounds in a way like doing everything all over again because apparently Robin Walker didn't pay attention the first time.
i should preface all that with this:
if valve (robin/whoever) won't pay attention/consider, i won't bother
i should preface all that with this:
if valve (robin/whoever) won't pay attention/consider, i won't bother
if valve (robin/whoever) won't pay attention/consider, i won't bother
not sure if this stuff was meant to be public yet, but whatever. 6v6 with 2 limits of each class simply will not work. this is stuff that was tested years ago, no reason re-testing it now. im open to 6v6 with 1 of each class, could make for some interesting strategies.
not sure if this stuff was meant to be public yet, but whatever. 6v6 with 2 limits of each class simply will not work. this is stuff that was tested years ago, no reason re-testing it now. im open to 6v6 with 1 of each class, could make for some interesting strategies.
Times truly are a changing. All of this is really exciting but I hope to god full time sniper won't be the new meta.
Times truly are a changing. All of this is really exciting but I hope to god full time sniper won't be the new meta.
The reason of re-testing it is so that Valve can follow the entire evolution of the format from scratch and possibly change the game accordingly.
The reason of re-testing it is so that Valve can follow the entire evolution of the format from scratch and possibly change the game accordingly.
DunderBroTimes truly are a changing. All of this is really exciting but I hope to good full time sniper won't be the new meta.
better than full time heavy/engineer
[quote=DunderBro]Times truly are a changing. All of this is really exciting but I hope to good full time sniper won't be the new meta.[/quote]
better than full time heavy/engineer
better than full time heavy/engineer
frknDunderBroTimes truly are a changing. All of this is really exciting but I hope to good full time sniper won't be the new meta.better than full time heavy/engineer
as a pocket, no.
[quote=frkn][quote=DunderBro]Times truly are a changing. All of this is really exciting but I hope to good full time sniper won't be the new meta.[/quote]
better than full time heavy/engineer[/quote]
as a pocket, no.
better than full time heavy/engineer[/quote]
as a pocket, no.
harbleunot sure if this stuff was meant to be public yet, but whatever. 6v6 with 2 limits of each class simply will not work. this is stuff that was tested years ago, no reason re-testing it now. im open to 6v6 with 1 of each class, could make for some interesting strategies.
Double natascha heavy was simply the meta-game at the time and banning it was a knee jerk reaction by people who were concerned that "pushing last" was going to be taken out of their precious 6s rule-set.
Just gotta adapt
[quote=harbleu]not sure if this stuff was meant to be public yet, but whatever. 6v6 with 2 limits of each class simply will not work. this is stuff that was tested years ago, no reason re-testing it now. im open to 6v6 with 1 of each class, could make for some interesting strategies.[/quote]
Double natascha heavy was simply the meta-game at the time and banning it was a knee jerk reaction by people who were concerned that "pushing last" was going to be taken out of their precious 6s rule-set.
Just gotta adapt
Double natascha heavy was simply the meta-game at the time and banning it was a knee jerk reaction by people who were concerned that "pushing last" was going to be taken out of their precious 6s rule-set.
Just gotta adapt
DunderBroTimes truly are a changing. All of this is really exciting but I hope to god full time sniper won't be the new meta.
:D
[quote=DunderBro]Times truly are a changing. All of this is really exciting but I hope to god full time sniper won't be the new meta.[/quote]
:D
:D
What would the item list for this cup be? Go fuckin nuts and just unban everything?
What would the item list for this cup be? Go fuckin nuts and just unban everything?
Ok I have mixed feelings about this. I've been playing TF2 competitively off and on (mostly on) since TF2s first season in ESEA. I agree with what was said that the fundamentals haven't changed in years, but maybe that's why we have lasted this long in the competitive scene. I'm open to new ideas, and tryin new things especially to get robins attention and get a 6v6 lobby system put into the game, but even if this experiment works, and a lobby system gets put in for 6v6, would it be our 6v6 or some goofy 6v6 full of payload maps and wranglers and the sandman and shit? Are we ready to change the way WE enjoy playing this game, which has kept is going all these years? Our community has done some really incredible things. raising money each season to help teams get to LAN, and sending teams to fucking Europe to compete?! Lets not forget tip of the hats either. All of these things happen, and continue to happen because we love the format we play, and we should be VERY careful of changing the fundamental rules because that might break what we have built.
While it would be awesome to have valve support us in what we do, it isn't worth it if we have to change too much.
Ok I have mixed feelings about this. I've been playing TF2 competitively off and on (mostly on) since TF2s first season in ESEA. I agree with what was said that the fundamentals haven't changed in years, but maybe that's why we have lasted this long in the competitive scene. I'm open to new ideas, and tryin new things especially to get robins attention and get a 6v6 lobby system put into the game, but even if this experiment works, and a lobby system gets put in for 6v6, would it be our 6v6 or some goofy 6v6 full of payload maps and wranglers and the sandman and shit? Are we ready to change the way WE enjoy playing this game, which has kept is going all these years? Our community has done some really incredible things. raising money each season to help teams get to LAN, and sending teams to fucking Europe to compete?! Lets not forget tip of the hats either. All of these things happen, and continue to happen because we love the format we play, and we should be VERY careful of changing the fundamental rules because that might break what we have built.
While it would be awesome to have valve support us in what we do, it isn't worth it if we have to change too much.
While it would be awesome to have valve support us in what we do, it isn't worth it if we have to change too much.
I'd like to see more maps tried out in leagues.
As for this idea, it seems interesting. I'd play in this league.
I'd like to see more maps tried out in leagues.
As for this idea, it seems interesting. I'd play in this league.
As for this idea, it seems interesting. I'd play in this league.
I do very much enjoy the format we already have. However it'd be interesting to have an experimental league if it would lead to the possibility of getting more attention from valve.
It'd be cool to start from scratch, no bans on anything really, but I think it'd make more sense to just stick to class limits of one per class, rather than two of each class.
I do very much enjoy the format we already have. However it'd be interesting to have an experimental league if it would lead to the possibility of getting more attention from valve.
It'd be cool to start from scratch, no bans on anything really, but I think it'd make more sense to just stick to class limits of one per class, rather than two of each class.
It'd be cool to start from scratch, no bans on anything really, but I think it'd make more sense to just stick to class limits of one per class, rather than two of each class.
thrasherWhile it would be awesome to have valve support us in what we do, it isn't worth it if we have to change too much.
And in that aspect, it'd be a simplistic as changing back. If it's that awful in the long run, presumably.
My one worry is less on valve's side, and mostly on this community's. To pull any of this off nicely, we need a community-wide acknowledgement that actively nerfing or banning should be the last thing we do. A lot of this is very clearly based around adapting as an important skill, and that won't happen if nobody's willing to adapt.
[quote=thrasher]While it would be awesome to have valve support us in what we do, it isn't worth it if we have to change too much.[/quote]
And in that aspect, it'd be a simplistic as changing back. If it's that awful in the long run, presumably.
My one worry is less on valve's side, and mostly on this community's. To pull any of this off nicely, we need a community-wide acknowledgement that [i]actively nerfing or banning should be the last thing we do[/i]. A lot of this is very clearly based around adapting as an important skill, and that won't happen if nobody's willing to adapt.
And in that aspect, it'd be a simplistic as changing back. If it's that awful in the long run, presumably.
My one worry is less on valve's side, and mostly on this community's. To pull any of this off nicely, we need a community-wide acknowledgement that [i]actively nerfing or banning should be the last thing we do[/i]. A lot of this is very clearly based around adapting as an important skill, and that won't happen if nobody's willing to adapt.
I think instant respawn (or very fast respawn) CTF would be fun. As an oldschool quakeworld TF player I will tell you that used to be insanely fun, however it was a totally different game. Comp was 8v8, so you would have certain people on offense and others on defense, plus tons of grenades and no ubers. I think it could still work in TF2 tho in a 6v6 setting. None of the existing CTF maps would work. Look at turbine for example. With long respawn times the first team to get wiped is going to get spawn camped for the rest of the game. 2fort at least has 2 spawn areas, one with 2 ways out. We would need CTF maps made with competitive play in mind, where spawn camping wouldn't be so practical.
I think instant respawn (or very fast respawn) CTF would be fun. As an oldschool quakeworld TF player I will tell you that used to be insanely fun, however it was a totally different game. Comp was 8v8, so you would have certain people on offense and others on defense, plus tons of grenades and no ubers. I think it could still work in TF2 tho in a 6v6 setting. None of the existing CTF maps would work. Look at turbine for example. With long respawn times the first team to get wiped is going to get spawn camped for the rest of the game. 2fort at least has 2 spawn areas, one with 2 ways out. We would need CTF maps made with competitive play in mind, where spawn camping wouldn't be so practical.
took the community five years to realize 6's is shit, should have listened to good old Carrots when he said we need to change the way the game is played, not the weapons that are allowed / disallowed. ctf_atrophy 4 lyfe
took the community five years to realize 6's is shit, should have listened to good old Carrots when he said we need to change the way the game is played, not the weapons that are allowed / disallowed. ctf_atrophy 4 lyfe
is there any particular reason we have to make tf2 6v6? i'd put forth the argument that say, 5v5, is more practical for tf2. First of all, it means less $$$ to send teams to lan, which is definitely a good thing because at least in the short term we're a community funded league. Anything saying one format is actually better than the other is simple theory, but wouldn't 5v5 make tf2 even more fast paced? a single pick means more, meaning teams are more willing to go off of that pick than suffer through boring stalemates. iirc 6v6 as a competitive format was decided on back in like 2007, so if we're reexamining things, why not the number of players per team?
is there any particular reason we have to make tf2 6v6? i'd put forth the argument that say, 5v5, is more practical for tf2. First of all, it means less $$$ to send teams to lan, which is definitely a good thing because at least in the short term we're a community funded league. Anything saying one format is actually better than the other is simple theory, but wouldn't 5v5 make tf2 even more fast paced? a single pick means more, meaning teams are more willing to go off of that pick than suffer through boring stalemates. iirc 6v6 as a competitive format was decided on back in like 2007, so if we're reexamining things, why not the number of players per team?
Ignoring the fact that 6s evolved from a ruleset similar to the one above, it seems like you'd see more variation in play style with 1 of each class. One reason for this is that everyone would always run 2 demos with the other rule set.
Ignoring the fact that 6s evolved from a ruleset similar to the one above, it seems like you'd see more variation in play style with 1 of each class. One reason for this is that everyone would always run 2 demos with the other rule set.
Because
5v5 would almost necessitate banning heavy
would separate us even more from pubs
off classing to sniper and spy would be borderline retarded
people would have to cut someone from there team
Because
5v5 would almost necessitate banning heavy
would separate us even more from pubs
off classing to sniper and spy would be borderline retarded
people would have to cut someone from there team
5v5 would almost necessitate banning heavy
would separate us even more from pubs
off classing to sniper and spy would be borderline retarded
people would have to cut someone from there team
TristanIgnoring the fact that 6s evolved from a ruleset similar to the one above, it seems like you'd see more variation in play style with 1 of each class. One reason for this is that everyone would always run 2 demos with the other rule set.
All you would see is more turtling caused by lack of combat lasses and almost guaranteed constant presence of heavy.
Imaging trying to push off last without switching back to main classes....Except the other team is also running turtle classes...
GG
[quote=Tristan]Ignoring the fact that 6s evolved from a ruleset similar to the one above, it seems like you'd see more variation in play style with 1 of each class. One reason for this is that everyone would always run 2 demos with the other rule set.[/quote]
All you would see is more turtling caused by lack of combat lasses and almost guaranteed constant presence of heavy.
Imaging trying to push off last without switching back to main classes....Except the other team is also running turtle classes...
GG
All you would see is more turtling caused by lack of combat lasses and almost guaranteed constant presence of heavy.
Imaging trying to push off last without switching back to main classes....Except the other team is also running turtle classes...
GG
Really if you want to be closer to pubs without basically ruining the game 7v7 with current rules is the only way to go.
for the following reasons...
Extra slot for offclassing
not having to offclass your soldiers means you have the extra spam power to deal with heavys faster.
nobody would need to be cut
can actually push off of last
Really if you want to be closer to pubs without basically ruining the game 7v7 with current rules is the only way to go.
for the following reasons...
Extra slot for offclassing
not having to offclass your soldiers means you have the extra spam power to deal with heavys faster.
nobody would need to be cut
can actually push off of last
for the following reasons...
Extra slot for offclassing
not having to offclass your soldiers means you have the extra spam power to deal with heavys faster.
nobody would need to be cut
can actually push off of last
I don't understand what there is to gain by changing the game in an attempt to make it grow. There are plenty of teams and 6v6 plays fine as is. Seeing how there's no money or viewers in any FPS ever, I don't see what the goal is.
I don't understand what there is to gain by changing the game in an attempt to make it grow. There are plenty of teams and 6v6 plays fine as is. Seeing how there's no money or viewers in any FPS ever, I don't see what the goal is.
drmtctook the community five years to realize 6's is shit, should have listened to good old Carrots when he said we need to change the way the game is played, not the weapons that are allowed / disallowed. ctf_atrophy 4 lyfe
Who exactly is drmtc? I kind of want to know now.
[quote=drmtc]took the community five years to realize 6's is shit, should have listened to good old Carrots when he said we need to change the way the game is played, not the weapons that are allowed / disallowed. ctf_atrophy 4 lyfe[/quote]
Who exactly is drmtc? I kind of want to know now.
Who exactly is drmtc? I kind of want to know now.
drmtctook the community five years to realize 6's is shit, should have listened to good old Carrots when he said we need to change the way the game is played, not the weapons that are allowed / disallowed. ctf_atrophy 4 lyfe
Why are you still not banned? Why do you keep posting here?
You still won't answer this when I ask you it
[quote=drmtc]took the community five years to realize 6's is shit, should have listened to good old Carrots when he said we need to change the way the game is played, not the weapons that are allowed / disallowed. ctf_atrophy 4 lyfe[/quote]
Why are you still not banned? Why do you keep posting here?
You still won't answer this when I ask you it
Why are you still not banned? Why do you keep posting here?
You still won't answer this when I ask you it
Main thing is valve doesn't support the competitive 6 v 6 community at all. Robin can nitpick what he doesn't like about the format and whatever... But if they made an esea open, im, and invite badges a lot more people would play just because of that. Or just post the date of a big lan to watch a lot more people would come watch.
Main thing is valve doesn't support the competitive 6 v 6 community at all. Robin can nitpick what he doesn't like about the format and whatever... But if they made an esea open, im, and invite badges a lot more people would play just because of that. Or just post the date of a big lan to watch a lot more people would come watch.
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