I'm listening to Fully Charged right now, and an issue came up that is very relevant to both highlander and 6v6. Cbear and Ruwin both brought up the point that very few teams nowadays get really excited to scrim or play teams significantly better than them. In my experience, in both 6s and HL, the teams I'm on would love to scrim better teams, but those teams never want to scrim us. And, hypocritically, we never want to scrim teams significantly worse than us.
I think it'd be really really cool if teams started making partnerships with teams from other divisions. It would be super awesome if every team had a scrim partner that was in the division above them, and the division below them. That way you get to regularly scrim a team significantly better than you, and learn from them. Then you get to pass on that experience by regularly scrimming a team significantly worse than you. (i.e. an open 6s team would find an IM team to scrim once a week, and a UGC 6s team to scrim once a week (or maybe a high open would scrim a low open team or something)).
It's not like a rule that would need to be enforced in any way (wouldn't be possible to enforce it), but I think it would be a really awesome thing to do, and would HUGELY benefit this community. Passing on that knowledge between divisions, and rekindle some of the excitement that people might have lost at the chance to play teams that are on another level from you. It would also extinguish the misconception of any sort of 'Illuminati' if teams got a chance to regularly play against those teams they consider in an elite group (or on the other hand, teams you consider 'beneath you').
Anyways, just a thought. If you're playing on a competitive team this season, you should consider trying this out. You don't have to scrim those teams exclusively, but it could just be one scrim a week with each of those teams. It's a win-win situation for the entire tf2 community.
tl;dr All comp teams should consider partnering with a team in the division above you, and the divison below you. Try scrimming each of those teams once a week so that every team gets a chance to play against a team that is way better than them.
I'm listening to Fully Charged right now, and an issue came up that is very relevant to both highlander and 6v6. Cbear and Ruwin both brought up the point that very few teams nowadays get really excited to scrim or play teams significantly better than them. In my experience, in both 6s and HL, the teams I'm on would love to scrim better teams, but those teams never want to scrim us. And, hypocritically, we never want to scrim teams significantly worse than us.
I think it'd be really really cool if teams started making partnerships with teams from other divisions. It would be super awesome if every team had a scrim partner that was in the division above them, and the division below them. That way you get to regularly scrim a team significantly better than you, and learn from them. Then you get to pass on that experience by regularly scrimming a team significantly worse than you. (i.e. an open 6s team would find an IM team to scrim once a week, and a UGC 6s team to scrim once a week (or maybe a high open would scrim a low open team or something)).
It's not like a rule that would need to be enforced in any way (wouldn't be possible to enforce it), but I think it would be a really awesome thing to do, and would HUGELY benefit this community. Passing on that knowledge between divisions, and rekindle some of the excitement that people might have lost at the chance to play teams that are on another level from you. It would also extinguish the misconception of any sort of 'Illuminati' if teams got a chance to regularly play against those teams they consider in an elite group (or on the other hand, teams you consider 'beneath you').
Anyways, just a thought. If you're playing on a competitive team this season, you should consider trying this out. You don't have to scrim those teams exclusively, but it could just be one scrim a week with each of those teams. It's a win-win situation for the entire tf2 community.
tl;dr All comp teams should consider partnering with a team in the division above you, and the divison below you. Try scrimming each of those teams once a week so that every team gets a chance to play against a team that is way better than them.
I think you learn more from playing close games, not 5-0's and 0-5's. sometimes it is beneficial to see how a higher level team plays but i think this idea is a bit silly
I think you learn more from playing close games, not 5-0's and 0-5's. sometimes it is beneficial to see how a higher level team plays but i think this idea is a bit silly
Like a sort of mentor scrim? Do a scrim or two a week against a better team, and then combine mumbles after and let them give you some advice/ask questions. It could be really nice, but I think only so many people would be willing to do that, and do it well.
Like a sort of mentor scrim? Do a scrim or two a week against a better team, and then combine mumbles after and let them give you some advice/ask questions. It could be really nice, but I think only so many people would be willing to do that, and do it well.
Teams mentoring teams. This sounds like an interesting idea, could work similarly.
Teams mentoring teams. This sounds like an interesting idea, could work similarly.
While this is great learning opportunity for the lower level team to learn, the problem is the higher level team gets very little out of playing a team significantly worse than them. You could try to work on timings or things that generally don't care what the other team is doing, but for the most part you aren't gaining much. One individual person mentoring a team can work because they mentor while their own personal team isn't fully assembled. For an entire team though, it's hard to rationalize using an opportunity when you have your full 6 to go scrim and not learn much from it.
Maybe during the offseason when things are a bit more laid back it could work a bit better. During the actual season though when things are so jam-packed, that is pretty tough.
While this is great learning opportunity for the lower level team to learn, the problem is the higher level team gets very little out of playing a team significantly worse than them. You could try to work on timings or things that generally don't care what the other team is doing, but for the most part you aren't gaining much. One individual person mentoring a team can work because they mentor while their own personal team isn't fully assembled. For an entire team though, it's hard to rationalize using an opportunity when you have your full 6 to go scrim and not learn much from it.
Maybe during the offseason when things are a bit more laid back it could work a bit better. During the actual season though when things are so jam-packed, that is pretty tough.
I feel like this is a good idea that could benefit low level teams, but there comes a point when the only reason you're losing to higher level teams is because their DM is miles away from yours, even if your team is coordinated and understands the game
I feel like this is a good idea that could benefit low level teams, but there comes a point when the only reason you're losing to higher level teams is because their DM is miles away from yours, even if your team is coordinated and understands the game
forgive me if i missed the discussion earlier, but isn't the point of scrim partners to find people WITHIN your division to scrim against? not people in other divisions that are out of your skill range...
forgive me if i missed the discussion earlier, but isn't the point of scrim partners to find people WITHIN your division to scrim against? not people in other divisions that are out of your skill range...
I think the best thing you can realistically do is find a team better than your team but by a small margin and make a deal with them that you will always be around to scrim with them. They gain the benefit of a constant scrim buddy, you gain the benefit of playing those better than you (the only way to truly get better).
When cbear and I were on our various mid-level teams we became "brother and sister" clans with CB/ducky/smaka's team. They were better than us, and usually beat us, but we learned a lot from them and on the nights we beat them, we felt awesome. It helped us improve beyond measure. Later, when players on both teams left we formed together and became MMM and went into invite.
EDITED THIS SECTION CAUSE IM DUMB
Also take a look at trihards and HRG. Last season when the Tri-hards did not bring clock to lan, they more or less became the designated scrim buddy for HRG. HRG had the benefit of always having a team to keep sharp on, and the Tri-hards had the benefit of playing the best over and over. Cue the next season and the tri-hards became the second best team.
moral of the story: look to play up, but marginally, it isnt realistic to expect to play the best teams, but if you can find a consistent scrim buddy that is better than you, you'll be on the right path
I think the best thing you can realistically do is find a team better than your team but by a small margin and make a deal with them that you will always be around to scrim with them. They gain the benefit of a constant scrim buddy, you gain the benefit of playing those better than you (the only way to truly get better).
When cbear and I were on our various mid-level teams we became "brother and sister" clans with CB/ducky/smaka's team. They were better than us, and usually beat us, but we learned a lot from them and on the nights we beat them, we felt awesome. It helped us improve beyond measure. Later, when players on both teams left we formed together and became MMM and went into invite.
[b]EDITED THIS SECTION CAUSE IM DUMB[/b]
Also take a look at trihards and HRG. Last season when the Tri-hards did not bring clock to lan, they more or less became the designated scrim buddy for HRG. HRG had the benefit of always having a team to keep sharp on, and the Tri-hards had the benefit of playing the best over and over. Cue the next season and the tri-hards became the second best team.
moral of the story: look to play up, but marginally, it isnt realistic to expect to play the best teams, but if you can find a consistent scrim buddy that is better than you, you'll be on the right path
I suppose playing a team in a completely separate division would be a bit of a stretch, maybe just try to find a regular scrim partner that's consistently better than you, but won't completely blow you out of the water.
GrieVeWhile this is great learning opportunity for the lower level team to learn, the problem is the higher level team gets very little out of playing a team significantly worse than them.
That's the entire point of this though. Every team would be glad to scrim a team better than them, but nobody wants to scrim a worse team. WIth that line of thought, you'll never scrim a team better than you. If teams try to find regular 'sister teams' or whatever you want to call it, one that's better, and one that's worse, then everyone will benefit.
I suppose playing a team in a completely separate division would be a bit of a stretch, maybe just try to find a regular scrim partner that's consistently better than you, but won't completely blow you out of the water.
[quote=GrieVe]While this is great learning opportunity for the lower level team to learn, the problem is the higher level team gets very little out of playing a team significantly worse than them.[/quote]
That's the entire point of this though. Every team would be glad to scrim a team better than them, but nobody wants to scrim a worse team. WIth that line of thought, you'll never scrim a team better than you. If teams try to find regular 'sister teams' or whatever you want to call it, one that's better, and one that's worse, then everyone will benefit.
alfunksoI feel like this is a good idea that could benefit low level teams, but there comes a point when the only reason you're losing to higher level teams is because their DM is miles away from yours, even if your team is coordinated and understands the game
This is the sort of thing that happened with my CS:GO team. My team could communicate effectively, could play strats well, had great gamesense for the most part, but we just got outshot every single time. What we had to do was play the fuck out of DM servers.
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The only downside to deathmathing/mge'ing your balls off is that almost everyone on the team started to hate the game and quit.
[quote=alfunkso]I feel like this is a good idea that could benefit low level teams, but there comes a point when the only reason you're losing to higher level teams is because their DM is miles away from yours, even if your team is coordinated and understands the game[/quote]
This is the sort of thing that happened with my CS:GO team. My team could communicate effectively, could play strats well, had great gamesense for the most part, but we just got outshot every single time. What we had to do was play the fuck out of DM servers.
[spoiler]The only downside to deathmathing/mge'ing your balls off is that almost everyone on the team started to hate the game and quit.[/spoiler]
i wouldnt like to be attached to play against a team who is worse than mine by a big margin
i think its easier to just join tf2scrim and ask the best team around to play
i wouldnt like to be attached to play against a team who is worse than mine by a big margin
i think its easier to just join tf2scrim and ask the best team around to play