OP or not? No Skill or plenty of Skill? Degreaser/Flare Gun/Axtinguisher combo OP?
Opinions people.
Pyro
posted in
TF2 General Discussion
axtinguisher and close range flaregun both with the degreaser, fucking obnoxious. with stock flamer they're fine.
degreaser was made for juggling with the shotgun in the gas jockey set, and for that it's glorious, but it makes other stuff so gay.
the critwhore combo should somehow be removed from the game. the weapons themselves aren't that bad but together they're bullshit, like how jarate+SMG would be if you could equip dual secondaries.
axtinguisher and close range flaregun both with the degreaser, fucking obnoxious. with stock flamer they're fine.
degreaser was made for juggling with the shotgun in the gas jockey set, and for that it's glorious, but it makes other stuff so gay.
the critwhore combo should somehow be removed from the game. the weapons themselves aren't that bad but together they're bullshit, like how jarate+SMG would be if you could equip dual secondaries.
degreaser was made for juggling with the shotgun in the gas jockey set, and for that it's glorious, but it makes other stuff so gay.
the critwhore combo should somehow be removed from the game. the weapons themselves aren't that bad but together they're bullshit, like how jarate+SMG would be if you could equip dual secondaries.
Kind of a sloppy mess of a class. To compensate for bad flamethrower DPS they buffed airblast. To compensate for still having terrible DPS they buffed the airblast harder and gave the pyro the degreaser so that the buffed flaregun and already devastating axtinguisher are even better. Nothing OP here, just a bunch of stupid bandaid fixes in the form of crits, crits, airblast abuse, and more crits.
Regardless it's endearing in terms of versatility. Thanks to a handful of unique and effective unlocks, the pyro has more available to him than the basic "Be aggressive, be passive, now be aggressive again" that every class shares. Pyro isn't particularly hard to play DM wise, but it's the ability to know when and how to utilize different weapon combos that separates a good player who's playing pyro from a good pyro.
To answer your questions: No, see above, no.
#03: why are the crits so bad? The only annoying thing about encountering a pyro is the fact that he locks your movement. Even though he's dishing out crits left and right, only axtinguisher crits do significantly more damage than rockets, pipes, meatshots, etc etc, and that's only at melee range. I don't really see what's wrong with "critwhoring" from a gameplay perspective, but from a balance perspective, it's a very lazy approach to patching up a class that hasn't had any direction in terms of balance for about two years.
Kind of a sloppy mess of a class. To compensate for bad flamethrower DPS they buffed airblast. To compensate for still having terrible DPS they buffed the airblast harder and gave the pyro the degreaser so that the buffed flaregun and already devastating axtinguisher are even better. Nothing OP here, just a bunch of stupid bandaid fixes in the form of crits, crits, airblast abuse, and more crits.
Regardless it's endearing in terms of versatility. Thanks to a handful of unique and effective unlocks, the pyro has more available to him than the basic "Be aggressive, be passive, now be aggressive again" that every class shares. Pyro isn't particularly hard to play DM wise, but it's the ability to know when and how to utilize different weapon combos that separates a good player who's playing pyro from a good pyro.
To answer your questions: No, see above, no.
#03: why are the crits so bad? The only annoying thing about encountering a pyro is the fact that he locks your movement. Even though he's dishing out crits left and right, only axtinguisher crits do significantly more damage than rockets, pipes, meatshots, etc etc, and that's only at melee range. I don't really see what's wrong with "critwhoring" from a gameplay perspective, but from a balance perspective, it's a very lazy approach to patching up a class that hasn't had any direction in terms of balance for about two years.
Regardless it's endearing in terms of versatility. Thanks to a handful of unique and effective unlocks, the pyro has more available to him than the basic "Be aggressive, be passive, now be aggressive again" that every class shares. Pyro isn't particularly hard to play DM wise, but it's the ability to know when and how to utilize different weapon combos that separates a good player who's playing pyro from a good pyro.
To answer your questions: No, see above, no.
#03: why are the crits so bad? The only annoying thing about encountering a pyro is the fact that he locks your movement. Even though he's dishing out crits left and right, only axtinguisher crits do significantly more damage than rockets, pipes, meatshots, etc etc, and that's only at melee range. I don't really see what's wrong with "critwhoring" from a gameplay perspective, but from a balance perspective, it's a very lazy approach to patching up a class that hasn't had any direction in terms of balance for about two years.
[img]http://img7.uploadhouse.com/fileuploads/12046/120460972965b751bc43f18c8ec921cc0a7719bc.gif[/img]
#5: I didn't say anything was bad with the crit weapons themselves. I said they were broken with the degreaser. I even said this specifically, and why. The flame+sting combo w/ degreaser is faster than any other two hit kill in the game(sans the FaN and SP, but they don't count, for various reasons), and you don't need to be precise at all, so it's completely consistent given you're doing it against someone who isn't tiers above you in skill. Throw in the airblast and, given how source engine's input prediction works (badly), you can make it extremely hard to hit you while you do it as long as you're in an enclosed space (half of TF2).
I think that the degreaser should reduce all crit damage by 25-33%. That would make the critwhore combo reasonable. Personally I would just make it impossible to play with either crit weapon comboing with the degreaser, because they're more broken (not OP, just broken) than even most of the polycount sets.
#5: I didn't say anything was bad with the crit weapons themselves. I said they were broken with the degreaser. I even said this specifically, and why. The flame+sting combo w/ degreaser is faster than any other two hit kill in the game(sans the FaN and SP, but they don't count, for various reasons), and you don't need to be precise at all, so it's completely consistent given you're doing it against someone who isn't tiers above you in skill. Throw in the airblast and, given how source engine's input prediction works (badly), you can make it extremely hard to hit you while you do it as long as you're in an enclosed space (half of TF2).
I think that the degreaser should reduce all crit damage by 25-33%. That would make the critwhore combo reasonable. Personally I would just make it impossible to play with either crit weapon comboing with the degreaser, because they're more broken (not OP, just broken) than even most of the polycount sets.
I think that the degreaser should reduce all crit damage by 25-33%. That would make the critwhore combo reasonable. Personally I would just make it impossible to play with either crit weapon comboing with the degreaser, because they're more broken (not OP, just broken) than even most of the polycount sets.
#9: Power wise? Yes. In terms of other classes' abilities? No.
#9: Power wise? Yes. In terms of other classes' abilities? No.
its the one class that has never had any role in tf2 therefore valve has tried to fix it by adding terrible game mechanics to its gameplay so you're left with a class that still has no real role, is generally considered underpowered and the easiest class in the game (other than heavy ofc)
its the one class that has never had any role in tf2 therefore valve has tried to fix it by adding terrible game mechanics to its gameplay so you're left with a class that [b]still[/b] has no real role, is generally considered underpowered and the easiest class in the game (other than heavy ofc)
#08: You realize that getting killed by puff n sting means you either:
1) Got flanked, which is almost like being backstabbed by a spy who doesn't have cloak
2) Were outplayed by somebody attacking you with a melee weapon
Yeah puff n sting is devastating but it's not really very viable in practice. Considering pyro's lack of both mobility and a cloaking device he's one of the worst flanking classes in the game. As for face to face encounters you're generally better off going for flare crits (which aren't much more damaging than pipes/rockets/meatshots etc) than trying to close distance for a puff n sting.
Unless the pyro gets something else in return, nerfing two of his three viable methods of damage output would severely gimp the class. He's already got his share of shortcomings, so why make him even worse? There's nothing wrong with rebalancing but you're calling for an outright nerf.
#08: You realize that getting killed by puff n sting means you either:
1) Got flanked, which is almost like being backstabbed by a spy who doesn't have cloak
2) Were outplayed by somebody attacking you with a melee weapon
Yeah puff n sting is devastating but it's not really very viable in practice. Considering pyro's lack of both mobility and a cloaking device he's one of the worst flanking classes in the game. As for face to face encounters you're generally better off going for flare crits (which aren't much more damaging than pipes/rockets/meatshots etc) than trying to close distance for a puff n sting.
Unless the pyro gets something else in return, nerfing two of his three viable methods of damage output would severely gimp the class. He's already got his share of shortcomings, so why make him even worse? There's nothing wrong with rebalancing but you're calling for an outright nerf.
1) Got flanked, which is almost like being backstabbed by a spy who doesn't have cloak
2) Were outplayed by somebody attacking you with a melee weapon
Yeah puff n sting is devastating but it's not really very viable in practice. Considering pyro's lack of both mobility and a cloaking device he's one of the worst flanking classes in the game. As for face to face encounters you're generally better off going for flare crits (which aren't much more damaging than pipes/rockets/meatshots etc) than trying to close distance for a puff n sting.
Unless the pyro gets something else in return, nerfing two of his three viable methods of damage output would severely gimp the class. He's already got his share of shortcomings, so why make him even worse? There's nothing wrong with rebalancing but you're calling for an outright nerf.
#10 I completely disagree.
In a lot of situations (e.g. those where pyro is run in the first place), it's extremely hard to beat a pyro 1 on 1. However, your logic (when describing how airblasting can mess up the aim of an opponent due to source engine wizardry, the super fast 2-shot kill, etc.) ignores the possibility of multiple people focusing the pyro. In that regard, his lack of damage output, range or mobility completely cripples him. I don't see how a class can have balance issues when, even in the few instances where he can be useful, he crumbles when more than one class focuses on him.
Yeah, puff+sting or puff+flare might be a faster, more guaranteed kill if pulled off correctly than even direct pipes or close-range scattergun, but the scout has hitscan, can double jump and is fast, and the demo can sticky jump and has mid-range capabilities. All the pyro has is that quick kill, which is extremely avoidable if you just don't fight him on his terms.
That's like saying a heavy is OP because if you run right next to him you'll be gunned down almost instantly. It's meaningless without context.
#10 I completely disagree.
In a lot of situations (e.g. those where pyro is run in the first place), it's extremely hard to beat a pyro 1 on 1. However, your logic (when describing how airblasting can mess up the aim of an opponent due to source engine wizardry, the super fast 2-shot kill, etc.) ignores the possibility of multiple people focusing the pyro. In that regard, his lack of damage output, range or mobility completely cripples him. I don't see how a class can have balance issues when, even in the few instances where he can be useful, he crumbles when more than one class focuses on him.
Yeah, puff+sting or puff+flare might be a faster, more guaranteed kill if pulled off correctly than even direct pipes or close-range scattergun, but the scout has hitscan, can double jump and is fast, and the demo can sticky jump and has mid-range capabilities. All the pyro has is that quick kill, which is extremely avoidable if you just don't fight him on his terms.
That's like saying a heavy is OP because if you run right next to him you'll be gunned down almost instantly. It's meaningless without context.
In a lot of situations (e.g. those where pyro is run in the first place), it's extremely hard to beat a pyro 1 on 1. However, your logic (when describing how airblasting can mess up the aim of an opponent due to source engine wizardry, the super fast 2-shot kill, etc.) ignores the possibility of multiple people focusing the pyro. In that regard, his lack of damage output, range or mobility completely cripples him. I don't see how a class can have balance issues when, even in the few instances where he can be useful, he crumbles when more than one class focuses on him.
Yeah, puff+sting or puff+flare might be a faster, more guaranteed kill if pulled off correctly than even direct pipes or close-range scattergun, but the scout has hitscan, can double jump and is fast, and the demo can sticky jump and has mid-range capabilities. All the pyro has is that quick kill, which is extremely avoidable if you just don't fight him on his terms.
That's like saying a heavy is OP because if you run right next to him you'll be gunned down almost instantly. It's meaningless without context.
I love it when I say something and people take it a completely different way, and I can't retort because what they respond with is completely irrelevant to what I think. Fuck this shit, I'm out of the thread.
I love it when I say something and people take it a completely different way, and I can't retort because what they respond with is completely irrelevant to what I think. Fuck this shit, I'm out of the thread.
wareyaI love it when I say something and people take it a completely different way, and I can't retort because what they respond with is completely irrelevant to what I think. Fuck this shit, I'm out of the thread.
Overreacting much? Explain to me how he is taking it "completely different." You're explaining why you think the Degreaser + Flare Gun / Axetinguisher is broken and Obe is countering you by saying it's very limited in how effective that can be. Flanks are flanks. If you got flanked by an unseen Soldier / Scout / anything, you are going to die very quickly, moreso with the Spy example. If the Pyro flanking you was using the stock flamethrower and you're in a tight corner you're still going to die quickly with the Axetinguisher. If you see the Pyro well before and in open field, the Pyro needs to hit unreliable Flares. Stickies / pipes / rockets do more damage overall and are way more reliable provided you don't have the aim of a wheelchair.
[quote=wareya]I love it when I say something and people take it a completely different way, and I can't retort because what they respond with is completely irrelevant to what I think. Fuck this shit, I'm out of the thread.[/quote]
Overreacting much? Explain to me how he is taking it "completely different." You're explaining why you think the Degreaser + Flare Gun / Axetinguisher is broken and Obe is countering you by saying it's very limited in how effective that can be. Flanks are flanks. If you got flanked by an unseen Soldier / Scout / anything, you are going to die very quickly, moreso with the Spy example. If the Pyro flanking you was using the stock flamethrower and you're in a tight corner you're still going to die quickly with the Axetinguisher. If you see the Pyro well before and in open field, the Pyro needs to hit unreliable Flares. Stickies / pipes / rockets do more damage overall and are way more reliable provided you don't have the aim of a wheelchair.
Overreacting much? Explain to me how he is taking it "completely different." You're explaining why you think the Degreaser + Flare Gun / Axetinguisher is broken and Obe is countering you by saying it's very limited in how effective that can be. Flanks are flanks. If you got flanked by an unseen Soldier / Scout / anything, you are going to die very quickly, moreso with the Spy example. If the Pyro flanking you was using the stock flamethrower and you're in a tight corner you're still going to die quickly with the Axetinguisher. If you see the Pyro well before and in open field, the Pyro needs to hit unreliable Flares. Stickies / pipes / rockets do more damage overall and are way more reliable provided you don't have the aim of a wheelchair.
I think pyro is way underpowered. Honestly, pyro has very little place in competition compared to scouts, soldiers, demos, snipers, and heavies. Honestly, I think pyro, engineer (without unlocks), and spy are pretty underpowered in general, especially for 5CP, where speed makes a huge difference.
Pyro is just too slow to be useful. It has no response to mid range attacks (something that scout, soldier and demo are very decent at), and while it's DPS is decent if you hit everything, there are lots of limitations on the usefulness of pyro.
I wish pyro was a more viable class since I like using some mechanics of pyro (airblasting ubers, airblasting away spam, using ubers to run into crowds of enemies in HL and M1). There just isn't enough going for pyro to make it a class that will make a huge difference in a game. Take any good HL pyro and replace him with a scout of the same skill level and the scout will win a match for a team, while as pyro, it's very hard to do so.
I think pyro is way underpowered. Honestly, pyro has very little place in competition compared to scouts, soldiers, demos, snipers, and heavies. Honestly, I think pyro, engineer (without unlocks), and spy are pretty underpowered in general, especially for 5CP, where speed makes a huge difference.
Pyro is just too slow to be useful. It has no response to mid range attacks (something that scout, soldier and demo are very decent at), and while it's DPS is decent if you hit everything, there are lots of limitations on the usefulness of pyro.
I wish pyro was a more viable class since I like using some mechanics of pyro (airblasting ubers, airblasting away spam, using ubers to run into crowds of enemies in HL and M1). There just isn't enough going for pyro to make it a class that will make a huge difference in a game. Take any good HL pyro and replace him with a scout of the same skill level and the scout will win a match for a team, while as pyro, it's very hard to do so.
Pyro is just too slow to be useful. It has no response to mid range attacks (something that scout, soldier and demo are very decent at), and while it's DPS is decent if you hit everything, there are lots of limitations on the usefulness of pyro.
I wish pyro was a more viable class since I like using some mechanics of pyro (airblasting ubers, airblasting away spam, using ubers to run into crowds of enemies in HL and M1). There just isn't enough going for pyro to make it a class that will make a huge difference in a game. Take any good HL pyro and replace him with a scout of the same skill level and the scout will win a match for a team, while as pyro, it's very hard to do so.
#15: I say one thing about being broken and people think it implies every kind of broken, even if I try to say otherwise to begin with. That's why I refuse to deal with it. No, I'm not going to correct myself, I'm going to fuck off so you can have your conversation without bad communication relating to me interfering with it.
#15: I say one thing about being broken and people think it implies every kind of broken, even if I try to say otherwise to begin with. That's why I refuse to deal with it. No, I'm not going to correct myself, I'm going to fuck off so you can have your conversation without bad communication relating to me interfering with it.
Wareya: Degreaser + Flare Gun / Axetinguisher is broken.
Obe: Degreaser + Flare Gun / Axetinguisher isn't reliable because of environment.
But whatever, you're free to be a child elsewhere.
Wareya: Degreaser + Flare Gun / Axetinguisher is broken.
Obe: Degreaser + Flare Gun / Axetinguisher isn't reliable because of environment.
But whatever, you're free to be a child elsewhere.
Obe: Degreaser + Flare Gun / Axetinguisher isn't reliable because of environment.
But whatever, you're free to be a child elsewhere.
Man, it's like saying something is broken totally means that it's reliable, even when I give a very specific case for when it's broken, which doesn't imply there are other cases when it's not broken at all.
Oh, I'm sorry, that's sarcasm.
"broken" doesn't imply "reliable".
Man, it's like saying something is broken totally means that it's reliable, even when I give a very specific case for when it's broken, which doesn't imply there are other cases when it's not broken at all.
Oh, I'm sorry, that's sarcasm.
"broken" doesn't imply "reliable".
Oh, I'm sorry, that's sarcasm.
"broken" doesn't imply "reliable".
#19 heavy is broken close range. Engineer is broken against scouts. Almost every single class is broken against medic. Sniper is broken against most classes long range. Spy is broken when people aren't facing them. How about you consider that the game isn't played in only a single situation, and a single situation being "broken" doesn't make a class overpowered?
Honestly, pyro's suppose to be a close range class, and it still manages to be pretty shitty at it most of the time. Complaining because you die to a combo that barely makes up for the rest of the time it's a subpar class is retarded. I mean stickies can juggle people, soldiers can juggle people, and heavis/sentries can push people back pretty far. It's just that they actually reliably kill someone when it's done, so IMO they're overpowered and broken.
#19 heavy is broken close range. Engineer is broken against scouts. Almost every single class is broken against medic. Sniper is broken against most classes long range. Spy is broken when people aren't facing them. How about you consider that the game isn't played in only a single situation, and a single situation being "broken" doesn't make a class overpowered?
Honestly, pyro's suppose to be a close range class, and it still manages to be pretty shitty at it most of the time. Complaining because you die to a combo that barely makes up for the rest of the time it's a subpar class is retarded. I mean stickies can juggle people, soldiers can juggle people, and heavis/sentries can push people back pretty far. It's just that they actually reliably kill someone when it's done, so IMO they're overpowered and broken.
Honestly, pyro's suppose to be a close range class, and it still manages to be pretty shitty at it most of the time. Complaining because you die to a combo that barely makes up for the rest of the time it's a subpar class is retarded. I mean stickies can juggle people, soldiers can juggle people, and heavis/sentries can push people back pretty far. It's just that they actually reliably kill someone when it's done, so IMO they're overpowered and broken.
Yet another post where I can't respond to most of it because a lot of it doesn't counter anything I actually think, just whining about stuff I might be (which I'm not).
Cheap shit is broken, regardless of whether it's . I'm not saying pyro is powerful, I'm not saying it's worth playing over scout (when you can aim) or that I'm butthurt when the other team has a pyro on it, I'm talking about This Specific Thing where pyro is queer about engagement because of certain weapon combos and nothing else. Just because it's totally lackluster everywhere else doesn't mean that this close range gay with movement locking (which breaks source engine's input prediction on latent connections btw) and forceful engagement with a way to screw over most of the classes in the game when they try to fight back unless they're significantly better than the pyro (I know this is a runon at this point, I'll break it down again) isn't queer for the flow of the game. Okay, so, when I'm sitting at point A, and there's a pyro at point B, and I need to go to point C, I can't even fight the pyro to go through point B to point C, because they're impossible to engage with most classes; I have to bait them into me and fight them on my own territory, or catch them out of position; I'm not saying it's a Bad Idea to engage a pyro when they're in a comfortable place, I'm saying that it's "impossible" to win. If there's a wall, even if it's angled where you're parallel to it, they can airstall you on it, which isn't bad alone, but then you throw in the crit weapons with rapid weapon switch and it's a shame. There's One Way to fight against a pyro as most of the classes in the game, where almost every other 1v1 engagment in the game has multiple; it takes away the freedom to approach the problem of the pyro being comfortable in their cubby in a way you want, because you only have one choice, which can be time consuming, disrupt the flow of the game, or even screw you over completely if something goes wrong for you like getting airblasted through a wall because of input prediction. I'm not saying the class is gay, I'm not saying that it's bad that most of this stuff is the way it is, I'm saying that the stars of tf2 design aligned just right as to where pyro is too good of a class at denying transitions.
Yet another post where I can't respond to most of it because a lot of it doesn't counter anything I actually think, just whining about stuff I might be (which I'm not).
Cheap shit is broken, regardless of whether it's . I'm not saying pyro is powerful, I'm not saying it's worth playing over scout (when you can aim) or that I'm butthurt when the other team has a pyro on it, I'm talking about This Specific Thing where pyro is queer about engagement because of certain weapon combos and nothing else. Just because it's totally lackluster everywhere else doesn't mean that this close range gay with movement locking (which breaks source engine's input prediction on latent connections btw) and forceful engagement with a way to screw over most of the classes in the game when they try to fight back unless they're significantly better than the pyro (I know this is a runon at this point, I'll break it down again) isn't queer for the flow of the game. Okay, so, when I'm sitting at point A, and there's a pyro at point B, and I need to go to point C, I can't even fight the pyro to go through point B to point C, because they're impossible to engage with most classes; I have to bait them into me and fight them on my own territory, or catch them out of position; I'm not saying it's a Bad Idea to engage a pyro when they're in a comfortable place, I'm saying that it's "impossible" to win. If there's a wall, even if it's angled where you're parallel to it, they can airstall you on it, which isn't bad alone, but then you throw in the crit weapons with rapid weapon switch and it's a shame. There's One Way to fight against a pyro as most of the classes in the game, where almost every other 1v1 engagment in the game has multiple; it takes away the freedom to approach the problem of the pyro being comfortable in their cubby in a way you want, because you only have one choice, which can be time consuming, disrupt the flow of the game, or even screw you over completely if something goes wrong for you like getting airblasted through a wall because of input prediction. I'm not saying the class is gay, I'm not saying that it's bad that most of this stuff is the way it is, I'm saying that the stars of tf2 design aligned just right as to where pyro is too good of a class at denying transitions.
Cheap shit is broken, regardless of whether it's . I'm not saying pyro is powerful, I'm not saying it's worth playing over scout (when you can aim) or that I'm butthurt when the other team has a pyro on it, I'm talking about This Specific Thing where pyro is queer about engagement because of certain weapon combos and nothing else. Just because it's totally lackluster everywhere else doesn't mean that this close range gay with movement locking (which breaks source engine's input prediction on latent connections btw) and forceful engagement with a way to screw over most of the classes in the game when they try to fight back unless they're significantly better than the pyro (I know this is a runon at this point, I'll break it down again) isn't queer for the flow of the game. Okay, so, when I'm sitting at point A, and there's a pyro at point B, and I need to go to point C, I can't even fight the pyro to go through point B to point C, because they're impossible to engage with most classes; I have to bait them into me and fight them on my own territory, or catch them out of position; I'm not saying it's a Bad Idea to engage a pyro when they're in a comfortable place, I'm saying that it's "impossible" to win. If there's a wall, even if it's angled where you're parallel to it, they can airstall you on it, which isn't bad alone, but then you throw in the crit weapons with rapid weapon switch and it's a shame. There's One Way to fight against a pyro as most of the classes in the game, where almost every other 1v1 engagment in the game has multiple; it takes away the freedom to approach the problem of the pyro being comfortable in their cubby in a way you want, because you only have one choice, which can be time consuming, disrupt the flow of the game, or even screw you over completely if something goes wrong for you like getting airblasted through a wall because of input prediction. I'm not saying the class is gay, I'm not saying that it's bad that most of this stuff is the way it is, I'm saying that the stars of tf2 design aligned just right as to where pyro is too good of a class at denying transitions.
wareyaCheap shit is broken, regardless of whether it's .
Sniping people is pretty cheap shit. Backstabs are pretty cheap shit. Part of the game, should find a new one if one of the worst gimmicks is broken to you. Saying it's "impossible to win"? Seriously? Try winning against a heavy in the same situation. If he can aim, you're going to die. And I find it hilarious you're complaining about a class that can win in a 1v1 rare situation the most. Have you ever played against a demo? You're not going to get past at all without multiple players or going spy. Stickies lock down an entire route, forcing uber or going another way. Your arguments are terribly flawed because the 3 main classes can do what pyro does in many more situations. Honestly, I've never said to myself "wow, there's a pyro at the next cap point, I guess I can't cap." You know what I do? I kill him. Soldiers can 3 shot a pyro and spam rockets around corners. Demos can spam stickies that force an airblast and them pipe him, or just sticky around corners. Scouts can kill pyros easily by kiting and using terrain since flamethrowers, axes, shotguns, and flareguns don't go around walls. You can two shot a pyro in his effective range if you choose to get in a riskier situation. Don't BS about him being able to mess up your aim, if it's your perfect situation he can still see the pyro right before the airblast happens, then another quick shot that should be in 2shot range which will happen before a flaregun or axe can kill.
tl;dr you're awful and because you can't kill one class you're really mad.
[quote=wareya]
Cheap shit is broken, regardless of whether it's .[/quote]
Sniping people is pretty cheap shit. Backstabs are pretty cheap shit. Part of the game, should find a new one if one of the worst gimmicks is broken to you. Saying it's "impossible to win"? Seriously? Try winning against a heavy in the same situation. If he can aim, you're going to die. And I find it hilarious you're complaining about a class that can win in a 1v1 rare situation the most. Have you ever played against a demo? You're not going to get past at all without multiple players or going spy. Stickies lock down an entire route, forcing uber or going another way. Your arguments are terribly flawed because the 3 main classes can do what pyro does in many more situations. Honestly, I've never said to myself "wow, there's a pyro at the next cap point, I guess I can't cap." You know what I do? I kill him. Soldiers can 3 shot a pyro and spam rockets around corners. Demos can spam stickies that force an airblast and them pipe him, or just sticky around corners. Scouts can kill pyros easily by kiting and using terrain since flamethrowers, axes, shotguns, and flareguns don't go around walls. You can two shot a pyro in his effective range if you choose to get in a riskier situation. Don't BS about him being able to mess up your aim, if it's your perfect situation he can still see the pyro right before the airblast happens, then another quick shot that should be in 2shot range which will happen before a flaregun or axe can kill.
tl;dr you're awful and because you can't kill one class you're really mad.
Cheap shit is broken, regardless of whether it's .[/quote]
Sniping people is pretty cheap shit. Backstabs are pretty cheap shit. Part of the game, should find a new one if one of the worst gimmicks is broken to you. Saying it's "impossible to win"? Seriously? Try winning against a heavy in the same situation. If he can aim, you're going to die. And I find it hilarious you're complaining about a class that can win in a 1v1 rare situation the most. Have you ever played against a demo? You're not going to get past at all without multiple players or going spy. Stickies lock down an entire route, forcing uber or going another way. Your arguments are terribly flawed because the 3 main classes can do what pyro does in many more situations. Honestly, I've never said to myself "wow, there's a pyro at the next cap point, I guess I can't cap." You know what I do? I kill him. Soldiers can 3 shot a pyro and spam rockets around corners. Demos can spam stickies that force an airblast and them pipe him, or just sticky around corners. Scouts can kill pyros easily by kiting and using terrain since flamethrowers, axes, shotguns, and flareguns don't go around walls. You can two shot a pyro in his effective range if you choose to get in a riskier situation. Don't BS about him being able to mess up your aim, if it's your perfect situation he can still see the pyro right before the airblast happens, then another quick shot that should be in 2shot range which will happen before a flaregun or axe can kill.
tl;dr you're awful and because you can't kill one class you're really mad.
@spy, sniper: Initiation isn't cheap, it's part of the game's dynamics; they've been there for day 1 and everything accounted for it.
@heavy: Heavy is supposed to be a roadblock; his low speed balances it (sans GRU). Pyro is moderately mobile, they can deny three of the main sources of damage in the game, they can keep people from running away from them, they can keep people from running /into/ them, and they can virtually instant kill seven out of nine classes - the only ones they can't being deniers themselves. None of this is broken.
@demo: I know how to avoid stickytraps, thanks.
@situational: Wow, I've been saying the entire time pyro's situational! Thanks for giving me some credit!
You're saying that you killed a pyro on a CP with the shotgun (I assume; you said 2-shot); good job, you fought a terrible pyro. Any decent one would have either chosen not to engage, or crit you. They have that choice. You're forced to shotgun them. If you used rockets, wow, awesome, you can kill a pyro that can't to reflect rockets at long range. Good on you. Then you start talking about messing up aim, and you don't know what you're talking about, so I can't even respond.
EDIT: I'm not even saying a pyro being on a CP is broken. That's one of the more balanced things, because then they're basically a fatscout. If you were reading "point A/B/C" as capture points, that was wrong; I was talking about positions, not caps.
tl;dr: I'm not bad at this game, you're just (being) a judgmental fuck.
@spy, sniper: Initiation isn't cheap, it's part of the game's dynamics; they've been there for day 1 and everything accounted for it.
@heavy: Heavy is supposed to be a roadblock; his low speed balances it (sans GRU). Pyro is moderately mobile, they can deny three of the main sources of damage in the game, they can keep people from running away from them, they can keep people from running /into/ them, and they can virtually instant kill seven out of nine classes - the only ones they can't being deniers themselves. None of this is broken.
@demo: I know how to avoid stickytraps, thanks.
@situational: Wow, I've been saying the entire time pyro's situational! Thanks for giving me some credit!
You're saying that you killed a pyro on a CP with the shotgun (I assume; you said 2-shot); good job, you fought a terrible pyro. Any decent one would have either chosen not to engage, or crit you. They have that choice. You're forced to shotgun them. If you used rockets, wow, awesome, you can kill a pyro that can't to reflect rockets at long range. Good on you. Then you start talking about messing up aim, and you don't know what you're talking about, so I can't even respond.
EDIT: I'm not even saying a pyro being on a CP is broken. That's one of the more balanced things, because then they're basically a fatscout. If you were reading "point A/B/C" as capture points, that was wrong; I was talking about positions, not caps.
tl;dr: I'm not bad at this game, you're just (being) a judgmental fuck.
@heavy: Heavy is supposed to be a roadblock; his low speed balances it (sans GRU). Pyro is moderately mobile, they can deny three of the main sources of damage in the game, they can keep people from running away from them, they can keep people from running /into/ them, and they can virtually instant kill seven out of nine classes - the only ones they can't being deniers themselves. None of this is broken.
@demo: I know how to avoid stickytraps, thanks.
@situational: Wow, I've been saying the entire time pyro's situational! Thanks for giving me some credit!
You're saying that you killed a pyro on a CP with the shotgun (I assume; you said 2-shot); good job, you fought a terrible pyro. Any decent one would have either chosen not to engage, or crit you. They have that choice. You're forced to shotgun them. If you used rockets, wow, awesome, you can kill a pyro that can't to reflect rockets at long range. Good on you. Then you start talking about messing up aim, and you don't know what you're talking about, so I can't even respond.
EDIT: I'm not even saying a pyro being on a CP is broken. That's one of the more balanced things, because then they're basically a fatscout. If you were reading "point A/B/C" as capture points, that was wrong; I was talking about positions, not caps.
tl;dr: I'm not bad at this game, you're just (being) a judgmental fuck.
@spy, sniper: Initiation isn't cheap, it's part of the game's dynamics; they've been there for day 1 and everything accounted for it.
Random crits were there day 1, I don't get that argument. Pyros can initiate by airblasting through chokes to some effect.
@heavy: Heavy is supposed to be a roadblock; his low speed balances it (sans GRU). Pyro is moderately mobile, they can deny three of the main sources of damage in the game, they can keep people from running away from them, they can keep people from running /into/ them, and they can virtually instant kill seven out of nine classes - the only ones they can't being deniers themselves. None of this is broken.
Soldiers and demos can keep people from running away too in certain situations. Demos can trap people in corners, soldiers can spam rockets and juggle. Pyros can keep people against walls. They can also keep people from going into them because damn, rockets hurt close range and going through stickies is a bad idea. What's the big deal?
@demo: I know how to avoid stickytraps, thanks.
Like you can a pyro. A heavy around the corner can instakill most classes just like a pyro too.
You're saying that you killed a pyro on a CP with the shotgun (I assume; you said 2-shot); good job, you fought a terrible pyro. Any decent one would have either chosen not to engage, or crit you. They have that choice. You're forced to shotgun them. If you used rockets, wow, awesome, you can kill a pyro that can't to reflect rockets at long range. Good on you. Then you start talking about messing up aim, and you don't know what you're talking about, so I can't even respond.
Wait, so the pyro gives up the 1v1 you claim it will usually win during transitions? You're giving pyros too much credit to win in transition fights considering it's completely dependent on the map and rarely the case/matters. All it takes is one mistimed airblast and they're dead.
I'm being judgmental because nobody has proven in real games that pyro is broken. If you win open running pyro only or something, I'll retract everything. But I honestly haven't seen many invite/IM/high open run full time pyros. The best I've seen is just airblasting ubers. If you think that pyro is so broken, why not prove it first instead of talking about small situations that rarely affect a game? I'm done now, just show me some IM full time pyro and I'll ask forgiveness and admit I was retarded.
[quote]@spy, sniper: Initiation isn't cheap, it's part of the game's dynamics; they've been there for day 1 and everything accounted for it.[/quote]
Random crits were there day 1, I don't get that argument. Pyros can initiate by airblasting through chokes to some effect.
[quote]@heavy: Heavy is supposed to be a roadblock; his low speed balances it (sans GRU). Pyro is moderately mobile, they can deny three of the main sources of damage in the game, they can keep people from running away from them, they can keep people from running /into/ them, and they can virtually instant kill seven out of nine classes - the only ones they can't being deniers themselves. None of this is broken.[/quote]
Soldiers and demos can keep people from running away too in certain situations. Demos can trap people in corners, soldiers can spam rockets and juggle. Pyros can keep people against walls. They can also keep people from going into them because damn, rockets hurt close range and going through stickies is a bad idea. What's the big deal?
[quote]@demo: I know how to avoid stickytraps, thanks.[/quote]
Like you can a pyro. A heavy around the corner can instakill most classes just like a pyro too.
[quote]You're saying that you killed a pyro on a CP with the shotgun (I assume; you said 2-shot); good job, you fought a terrible pyro. Any decent one would have either chosen not to engage, or crit you. They have that choice. You're forced to shotgun them. If you used rockets, wow, awesome, you can kill a pyro that can't to reflect rockets at long range. Good on you. Then you start talking about messing up aim, and you don't know what you're talking about, so I can't even respond.
[/quote]
Wait, so the pyro gives up the 1v1 you claim it will usually win during transitions? You're giving pyros too much credit to win in transition fights considering it's completely dependent on the map and rarely the case/matters. All it takes is one mistimed airblast and they're dead.
I'm being judgmental because nobody has proven in real games that pyro is broken. If you win open running pyro only or something, I'll retract everything. But I honestly haven't seen many invite/IM/high open run full time pyros. The best I've seen is just airblasting ubers. If you think that pyro is so broken, why not prove it first instead of talking about small situations that rarely affect a game? I'm done now, just show me some IM full time pyro and I'll ask forgiveness and admit I was retarded.
Random crits were there day 1, I don't get that argument. Pyros can initiate by airblasting through chokes to some effect.
[quote]@heavy: Heavy is supposed to be a roadblock; his low speed balances it (sans GRU). Pyro is moderately mobile, they can deny three of the main sources of damage in the game, they can keep people from running away from them, they can keep people from running /into/ them, and they can virtually instant kill seven out of nine classes - the only ones they can't being deniers themselves. None of this is broken.[/quote]
Soldiers and demos can keep people from running away too in certain situations. Demos can trap people in corners, soldiers can spam rockets and juggle. Pyros can keep people against walls. They can also keep people from going into them because damn, rockets hurt close range and going through stickies is a bad idea. What's the big deal?
[quote]@demo: I know how to avoid stickytraps, thanks.[/quote]
Like you can a pyro. A heavy around the corner can instakill most classes just like a pyro too.
[quote]You're saying that you killed a pyro on a CP with the shotgun (I assume; you said 2-shot); good job, you fought a terrible pyro. Any decent one would have either chosen not to engage, or crit you. They have that choice. You're forced to shotgun them. If you used rockets, wow, awesome, you can kill a pyro that can't to reflect rockets at long range. Good on you. Then you start talking about messing up aim, and you don't know what you're talking about, so I can't even respond.
[/quote]
Wait, so the pyro gives up the 1v1 you claim it will usually win during transitions? You're giving pyros too much credit to win in transition fights considering it's completely dependent on the map and rarely the case/matters. All it takes is one mistimed airblast and they're dead.
I'm being judgmental because nobody has proven in real games that pyro is broken. If you win open running pyro only or something, I'll retract everything. But I honestly haven't seen many invite/IM/high open run full time pyros. The best I've seen is just airblasting ubers. If you think that pyro is so broken, why not prove it first instead of talking about small situations that rarely affect a game? I'm done now, just show me some IM full time pyro and I'll ask forgiveness and admit I was retarded.
pyro pretty homo because you can take away player control since poof is basically pre-nerf fan, but w/e.
pyro pretty homo because you can take away player control since poof is basically pre-nerf fan, but w/e.
#24: Man, you're avoiding half of my points, responding would very well mostly be repeating myself. GG no re. I'm going to fuck off like I originally just wanted to because this is going nowhere.
#24: Man, you're avoiding half of my points, responding would very well mostly be repeating myself. GG no re. I'm going to fuck off like I originally just wanted to because this is going nowhere.
OtakuScottOP or not? No Skill or plenty of Skill? Degreaser/Flare Gun/Axtinguisher combo OP?
Opinions people.
Not OP.
Not a lot of skill, probably more than other utilities aside from Sniper though.
The combo kills aren't really overpowered because they force you into predictable patterns (especially the axtinguisher). You pretty much have to run directly at someone with the axtinguisher, even after airblasting to set it up, so the better players simply shoot you dead. It works best off a flank on an unaware player, which is exactly the same as pretty much any other weapon in this game. Regardless its all combo kills, and any number of things can go wrong.
Kind of gay to play against, but really enjoyable to play.
[quote=OtakuScott]OP or not? No Skill or plenty of Skill? Degreaser/Flare Gun/Axtinguisher combo OP?
Opinions people.[/quote]
Not OP.
Not a lot of skill, probably more than other utilities aside from Sniper though.
The combo kills aren't really overpowered because they force you into predictable patterns (especially the axtinguisher). You pretty much have to run directly at someone with the axtinguisher, even after airblasting to set it up, so the better players simply shoot you dead. It works best off a flank on an unaware player, which is exactly the same as pretty much any other weapon in this game. Regardless its all combo kills, and any number of things can go wrong.
Kind of gay to play against, but really enjoyable to play.
Opinions people.[/quote]
Not OP.
Not a lot of skill, probably more than other utilities aside from Sniper though.
The combo kills aren't really overpowered because they force you into predictable patterns (especially the axtinguisher). You pretty much have to run directly at someone with the axtinguisher, even after airblasting to set it up, so the better players simply shoot you dead. It works best off a flank on an unaware player, which is exactly the same as pretty much any other weapon in this game. Regardless its all combo kills, and any number of things can go wrong.
Kind of gay to play against, but really enjoyable to play.
wareya#25: Man, you're avoiding half of my points, responding would very well mostly be repeating myself. GG no re. I'm going to fuck off like I originally just wanted to because this is going nowhere.
if i were responding to you, i would have quoted you, was just giving my opinion.
[quote=wareya]#25: Man, you're avoiding half of my points, responding would very well mostly be repeating myself. GG no re. I'm going to fuck off like I originally just wanted to because this is going nowhere.[/quote]
if i were responding to you, i would have quoted you, was just giving my opinion.
if i were responding to you, i would have quoted you, was just giving my opinion.
Pyro. Cool class. Can it be annoying? Yes. Just as annoying as playing against any other skilled class. Less annoying than a good sniper, spy or scout. Either way, the people that play Pyro and are good at it deserve credit. I think the skill gap is pretty obvious between a bad,good and great Pyro player. Or maybe that's me being bad.
Pyro. Cool class. Can it be annoying? Yes. Just as annoying as playing against any other skilled class. Less annoying than a good sniper, spy or scout. Either way, the people that play Pyro and are good at it deserve credit. I think the skill gap is pretty obvious between a bad,good and great Pyro player. Or maybe that's me being bad.
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