when game understanding is largely derived from time and experience, yes, invite players (or at the very least players who have been around for a while) are going to have input that's largely more informed and valuable than somebody who plays the game at an admittedly really low level. If you really think otherwise then you're just delusional.

Not that any of this matters because the pistol obviously isn't going to get changed l0l

exec -frag.cfg

Just because someone plays in a league/division you seem to feel is the "pleb race" level doesn't mean they've never played with people that are better than that, and even if it did he should still have a right to voice his opinion.

While yes, the input from players with more experience is going to be generally more valuable and meaningful, that doesn't mean we should automatically throw out ideas from players with less experience.

And yes, all of this is coming from someone who doesn't even play UGC iron.

EDIT: not sure why i'm getting -fragged for advocating that everyone have their voice heard

Bloodseeker is a fucking useless hero to anyone that plays dota at a decent level

He also shits on morons that can't play the game

If what you guys are proposing is at all intelligent it would mean that because the majority of players are invariably worse than the minority in any competitive game that we should nerf bloodseeker.

I will use this analogy again because you don't seem to understand that experience with the game is tied to the value of your opinion. Roger Federer's opinion on a game changing attribute of tennis is not equivalent to joey "killing in the name" oksenhendler regardless of whether they have both played competitive tennis. To ignore the quality of competition and play and how it is clearly indicative of game knowledge/understanding is to deny that experience with the game matters at all.

The problem with the pistol/smg ideal is that it relies on a standard distribution to be the least bit reliable, and given that over a sufficient number of trials it displays this, it's perfectly suitable for a game. The problem is that because it is still random, it won't always have that standard distribution. The smg is generally better then the pistol in that regard because first of all, it has a tighter spread, which is unimportant from a statistical perspective, but also that it fires faster/more. In a perfectly comp-centric world, the pistol could have a mechanic that worked as a sort of cone, shaped similarly to the maximum spread that is has now, and calculate damage based off of how close the center is to the target, taking into account range, whether or not part of the cone is blocked, etc. This would require an entirely new mechanic, which is not something that valve is in any way going to do. The closest alternative would be to increase fire rate/clip size dramatically, and decrease damage to scale, so that the spread is more even/reliable over a given amount of damage (if that makes any sense). None of this is likely to happen, however, without substantial (if simple and easy) modding of the game, or some unforeseen level of Valve catering to competitive.

tl;dr could easily be fixed by making spread more statistically stable.

That's not what I said at all. I said that yes, players with more experience are going to have generally more valuable input, but that every player should at least be able to voice his opinion without having people resort to ad hominem attacks.

It's perfectly fine, why would you buff a stock weapon? the hell

oh cruel irony

When t:a was being developed I wrote up a nerd essay on why hitscan spread is an awful idea for balancing and that it is typically far better to tweak damage and reward players for aiming rather than introduce random elements. The issue with the pistol here is that if you were to adjust the pistol spread down to a point where it could be laser accurate, it would suffer from severe utility spikes based on range unless the fall-off was exponential or something. If it received a large damage penalty at all ranges but was pin-point accurate it would be incredibly useful for spamming demomen/medics at mid and getting free unavoidable damage on them. If there is a serious fall-off on it though, so long as it does like 10 or so damage it is a dominant weapon at that range, 120 laser accurate damage at a range that is most likely outside of the guaranteed rocket radius would shitcan soldiers even harder than they already are against scouts at mid-range.

guys

scout is hard

pistol is fine, would be nice to see the winger get a "tighter cone" buff like this though, because it is /awful/

The scout class is powerful because it's fast, it can double jump and the scattergun is really good. The random spread on pistol sucks ass, real talk. But it's necessary as the other benefits of scout would make a more powerful secondary tip the class balance.

Let's say we're building a hospital. We've got a whole bunch of architects and contractors and whoever else specializes in building things getting together and putting their years of experience together to make this hospital. A highschooler who wants to be an architect when he grows up shows up and tries to contribute his take on why the team should totally throw away their plans for the hospital and build it using HIS plans that he sketched up in his free time.

Explain why you think this group of professionals should throw away all of their time and experience to listen to the ill-informed, inexperienced, and far-fetched plans of a highschool student. If you can't, you've found out why conductor is correct.

You are trying to build a hospital. The plans are made public. 5000 people sign a petition to make the rooms larger. You don't. Patients become claustrophobic and want to be move out of your hospital because the rooms are too small.

Explain why you didn't think for a second about what the people who are actually going to fill up your hospital have to say about it. if you can't, you've found out why silly generalizations and unprecise metaphors can make almost any opinion sound valid or stupid.

i think the real problem is soldier
can we please nerf the escape plan again?
3 primaries soldier too strong

I miss the days when the pistol would fire as fast as we could make it :(

Does Bad Rats count?

pistol needs to apply jarate on hit

and apply bleed on every shot

don't forget headshots that minicrit

dont you think that would be overpowered though?

quality competitive games are always balanced around the highest level of play. saying someone doesn't really understand what needs nerfs/buffs because they're not in invite or top main is a valid statement.

go browse the sc2 or dota2 balance forums for excellent and multiple examples of this.

I'm not asking you to actually change the game, I'm asking you to not start calling him bad simply for suggesting something. Tell him why it's a bad idea, sure. But why is it suddenly necessary to call him shit?

Tf2 is not.

Nah, they would only do 103 instead of 150. Balance and all.

see: b4nny's pistol on stream

I miss autopistol. That shit was sex.

Scout doesn't need buffs.

I kinda agree with Anthony. Yes buffing the pistol would break scout but randomness should be avoided at all costs in competitive game. Maybe making it be semi random but with a fairly defined spray pattern. For example:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c5/Archimedean_spiral.svg/300px-Archimedean_spiral.svg.png

Something like that but with slight variances. To decrease the risk of buffing scout at long range make each shot after the first do less damage unless the scout stops firing for the time it takes the pistol to reload?

pistol is fine, if it didnt have spread demomen life would be harder then it is vs them scouts on mid rofl

if pistol had accuracy like the lg you would still make a thread about nerfing it