So I've been noticing an increased use of the Loose Cannon in comp, from open to invite, Seagull being a big example of that. Users of the LC, why do you pick this weapon over standard pipes? What advantages/disadvantages does it have? Is it just fun to use?
Its funny, when the LC was first buffed, I mentioned its possible viability in various stream chats but very few agreed with me. So now that its rearing its head, how is it and how has it effected the game?
So I've been noticing an increased use of the Loose Cannon in comp, from open to invite, Seagull being a big example of that. Users of the LC, why do you pick this weapon over standard pipes? What advantages/disadvantages does it have? Is it just fun to use?
Its funny, when the LC was first buffed, I mentioned its possible viability in various stream chats but very few agreed with me. So now that its rearing its head, how is it and how has it effected the game?
Captain Seagull is the only true pirate
Captain Seagull is the only true pirate
Donking people in pubs is a great feeling
Donking people in pubs is a great feeling
http://news.esea.net/tf2/index.php?s=news&d=comments&id=13182
"On a personal level, pre-season and the first week of ESEA have been a lot of fun. ESEA legalized the Loose Cannon this season, and I'm one of the few (only?) demomen in invite to use it. Most demos only use it for a few minutes before swapping back to pipes, but I figured I should give it a legitimate shot. I've been focusing primarily on how I can use its superior mid-range spam capabilities to my advantage: discovering new spam angles, new ways to use my ammo in mid-fights, where can I get zero-charge double-donks, and so on. After using it for the last few weeks, I'm going to end up using it for the entire season. I feel that it is a straight upgrade to pipes for any player, and it will probably be considered to be overpowered by ESEA LAN.
http://news.esea.net/tf2/index.php?s=news&d=comments&id=13182
"On a personal level, pre-season and the first week of ESEA have been a lot of fun. ESEA legalized the Loose Cannon this season, and I'm one of the few (only?) demomen in invite to use it. Most demos only use it for a few minutes before swapping back to pipes, but I figured I should give it a legitimate shot. I've been focusing primarily on how I can use its superior mid-range spam capabilities to my advantage: discovering new spam angles, new ways to use my ammo in mid-fights, where can I get zero-charge double-donks, and so on. After using it for the last few weeks, I'm going to end up using it for the entire season. I feel that it is a straight upgrade to pipes for any player, and it will probably be considered to be overpowered by ESEA LAN.
Brings a whole new meaning to "giving them the d"
Brings a whole new meaning to "giving them the d"
[img]http://thecarloos.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/donk.jpg[/img]
fuck loose cannon
fuck smaka
fuck loose cannon
fuck smaka
r4ptureSo I've been noticing an increased use of the Loose Cannon in comp, from open to invite, Seagull being a big example of that. Users of the LC, why do you pick this weapon over standard pipes? What advantages/disadvantages does it have? Is it just fun to use?
Its funny, when the LC was first buffed, I mentioned its possible viability in various stream chats but very few agreed with me. So now that its rearing its head, how is it and how has it effected the game?
I'm not a demo main but I play it often in pugs, does that count? LC is a really fun weapon to use. Definitely has its cons and can hardly be used the same as pipes. Getting free damage/frags off rollers is a no go. Bringing in the donk squad on people with the LC though is honestly just fun. Can't keep a straight face when you deny a bomber and he screws up his jump. It's the best haha.
On a more serious note though, timing your shots and putting them in the right direction can easily put out a good amount of damage to multiple players. It's a beast in choke points to say the least. You can miss the direct by still hit with splash, and damage is damage, right? I'm in no position to say, but even with all of that I can't see the pipe launcher losing its spot.
[quote=r4pture]So I've been noticing an increased use of the Loose Cannon in comp, from open to invite, Seagull being a big example of that. Users of the LC, why do you pick this weapon over standard pipes? What advantages/disadvantages does it have? Is it just fun to use?
Its funny, when the LC was first buffed, I mentioned its possible viability in various stream chats but very few agreed with me. So now that its rearing its head, how is it and how has it effected the game?[/quote]
I'm not a demo main but I play it often in pugs, does that count? LC is a really fun weapon to use. Definitely has its cons and can hardly be used the same as pipes. Getting free damage/frags off rollers is a no go. Bringing in the donk squad on people with the LC though is honestly just fun. Can't keep a straight face when you deny a bomber and he screws up his jump. It's the best haha.
On a more serious note though, timing your shots and putting them in the right direction can easily put out a good amount of damage to multiple players. It's a beast in choke points to say the least. You can miss the direct by still hit with splash, and damage is damage, right? I'm in no position to say, but even with all of that I can't see the pipe launcher losing its spot.
having both used pipes and loose cannon for about 10 minutes they both remind me to reload stickies.
having both used pipes and loose cannon for about 10 minutes they both remind me to reload stickies.
Loose cannons explode in an extremely short time so I can't get the satisfaction of killing people with rollers anymore :(
Loose cannons explode in an extremely short time so I can't get the satisfaction of killing people with rollers anymore :(
Does not have the long range power of the pipes and if you get into a close range battle pipes are just as good. To be honest though, pipes don't really matter if you can use stickies. Now that weabooties are allowed I'd expect a lot more use from them than lc because 25health is a huge difference.
Does not have the long range power of the pipes and if you get into a close range battle pipes are just as good. To be honest though, pipes don't really matter if you can use stickies. Now that weabooties are allowed I'd expect a lot more use from them than lc because 25health is a huge difference.
clorgif you get into a close range battle pipes are just as good.
Still capable of two shotting a scout
No self-damage
gotta check your math there
[quote=clorg]if you get into a close range battle pipes are just as good.[/quote]
Still capable of two shotting a scout
No self-damage
gotta check your math there
shoot 2 cannonballs in a choke and everybody and their extended family loses 500 hp
ya this gun sucks to push agianst
shoot 2 cannonballs in a choke and everybody and their extended family loses 500 hp
ya this gun sucks to push agianst
miloit sucks
mto push agianst
[quote=milo]it sucks[/quote]
[quote=m]to push agianst[/quote]
2sy_morphiendclorgif you get into a close range battle pipes are just as good.
Still capable of two shotting a scout
No self-damage
gotta check your math there
Where do you get no self damage from? And by 2 shot you have to donk a scout twice.
[quote=2sy_morphiend][quote=clorg]if you get into a close range battle pipes are just as good.[/quote]
Still capable of two shotting a scout
No self-damage
gotta check your math there[/quote]
Where do you get no self damage from? And by 2 shot you have to donk a scout twice.
Only standard class weapon that can one shot full health medics. Ability to equally damage two players hit in a straight line. As well as no self damage for point blank shots. The weapon is effective but not over powered. You can't lay a temporary no man zone with its rollers. You pretty much loose the ability for long range heavily arched spam. And the weapon requires greater prediction for less than medium range (burnt fuse) double donks (over 100 damage hits).
If anything it kind of reminds me of the choice for medics between needles and arrows, in that they both require a slightly different play style. Ultimately the decision on which weapon to use comes down to what the player feels comfortable and confident in using.
Only standard class weapon that can one shot full health medics. Ability to equally damage two players hit in a straight line. As well as no self damage for point blank shots. The weapon is effective but not over powered. You can't lay a temporary no man zone with its rollers. You pretty much loose the ability for long range heavily arched spam. And the weapon requires greater prediction for less than medium range (burnt fuse) double donks (over 100 damage hits).
If anything it kind of reminds me of the choice for medics between needles and arrows, in that they both require a slightly different play style. Ultimately the decision on which weapon to use comes down to what the player feels comfortable and confident in using.
clorg2sy_morphiendclorgif you get into a close range battle pipes are just as good.
Still capable of two shotting a scout
No self-damage
gotta check your math there
Where do you get no self damage from? And by 2 shot you have to donk a scout twice.
a cannonball does like 68. two kills an unbuffed scout. point blank cannonball wont blow up in your face so a scout can't kill you on your own pipes
[quote=clorg][quote=2sy_morphiend][quote=clorg]if you get into a close range battle pipes are just as good.[/quote]
Still capable of two shotting a scout
No self-damage
gotta check your math there[/quote]
Where do you get no self damage from? And by 2 shot you have to donk a scout twice.[/quote]
a cannonball does like 68. two kills an unbuffed scout. point blank cannonball wont blow up in your face so a scout can't kill you on your own pipes
also being juggled by it makes 0 sense and i dont know how many times ive tried to fight seagull with it and then found myself somewhere orbiting mars with 20 hp
also being juggled by it makes 0 sense and i dont know how many times ive tried to fight seagull with it and then found myself somewhere orbiting mars with 20 hp
FutureSandwichmiloit sucks
mto push agianst
no it just sucks
[quote=FutureSandwich][quote=milo]it sucks[/quote]
[quote=m]to push agianst[/quote][/quote]
no it just sucks
The important thing to understand is that this weapon requires the user to think differently. Long range spam is nonexistent, so the team must play differently as well. Conversely, the opposing team must think differently to counter it. Pushing directly into the LC is bad. It has the ability to bounce ubered players around even more than a pyro--while the demo sits at a relatively safe medium distance.
LC is not better against scouts close range because you need to hit them 2-3 times (vs 2 pipes for a fully buffed scout) and aiming LC at close range is odd due to the way it fires. LC reloads slower than pipes. LC also has something like 1.5-2x self damage, so close range fights with it are scary. Hitting a scout point blank will usually make the cannonball bounce right back at you and you'll take 50-100 damage from it if you're unlucky.
LC excels at medium range where you can knock jumpers out of their projected pathways and double-donk players coming through chokes or tight spaces. It also somewhat negates height advantage, since firing it upward at an enemy will frequently knock them back in a path that makes hitting the double-donk pretty easy.
There are angles at certain mids where you can completely wreck an enemy team as they're trying to get in with LC where you would only do moderate damage with pipes.
There are other angles during some mids that give comical double-donks when players can't even see you (e.g. cp_process ground to top of mid).
It was super fun to use while I was playing demo this season. Most people will deliver significantly less damage from the LC than they would from pipes in a full match. Seagull is incredibly analytic and will likely be incredible with LC before LAN and he'll be the reason it's banned next season. :>
The important thing to understand is that this weapon requires the user to think differently. Long range spam is nonexistent, so the team must play differently as well. Conversely, the opposing team must think differently to counter it. Pushing directly into the LC is bad. It has the ability to bounce ubered players around even more than a pyro--while the demo sits at a relatively safe medium distance.
LC is not better against scouts close range because you need to hit them 2-3 times (vs 2 pipes for a fully buffed scout) and aiming LC at close range is odd due to the way it fires. LC reloads slower than pipes. LC also has something like 1.5-2x self damage, so close range fights with it are scary. Hitting a scout point blank will usually make the cannonball bounce right back at you and you'll take 50-100 damage from it if you're unlucky.
LC excels at medium range where you can knock jumpers out of their projected pathways and double-donk players coming through chokes or tight spaces. It also somewhat negates height advantage, since firing it upward at an enemy will frequently knock them back in a path that makes hitting the double-donk pretty easy.
There are angles at certain mids where you can completely wreck an enemy team as they're trying to get in with LC where you would only do moderate damage with pipes.
There are other angles during some mids that give comical double-donks when players can't even see you (e.g. cp_process ground to top of mid).
It was super fun to use while I was playing demo this season. Most people will deliver significantly less damage from the LC than they would from pipes in a full match. Seagull is incredibly analytic and will likely be incredible with LC before LAN and he'll be the reason it's banned next season. :>
People predicting the LC will be banned by ESEA
ALL HAIL THE HOLY META.
Really though, its sad that the thought even needs to come out. From everything I'm hearing and seeing, people are calling it either bad, or balanced. I don't see why it would even be up for ban besides "its different so get rid of it", which is a thought cancer thats killing all the fun in even watching 6s. I don't know if Seagull being good with the LC is enough to get it banned, its not like they banned pipes because of b4nny.
EDIT: #inexile #gwcarver
[quote]People predicting the LC will be banned by ESEA[/quote]
ALL HAIL THE HOLY META.
Really though, its sad that the thought even needs to come out. From everything I'm hearing and seeing, people are calling it either bad, or balanced. I don't see why it would even be up for ban besides "its different so get rid of it", which is a thought cancer thats killing all the fun in even watching 6s. I don't know if Seagull being good with the LC is enough to get it banned, its not like they banned pipes because of b4nny.
EDIT: #inexile #gwcarver
rapture are you even capable of posting without pretending you're some george washington carver of item application in exile
rapture are you even capable of posting without pretending you're some george washington carver of item application in exile
But June it's literally killing the 6v6 player base because we aren't willing to change the meta, which I am an expert on of course.
But June it's literally killing the 6v6 player base because we aren't willing to change the meta, which I am an expert on of course.
Well thank fucking christ we have george washington carver here to save us
Well thank fucking christ we have george washington carver here to save us
Rapture, every post you make concerning the actual bread and butter of the game is constantly crying about "changing the meta" to the point where I'm no longer exaggerating by saying EVERY POST YOU MAKE ABOUT COMP GAMEPLAY IS CRYING ABOUT SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE META.
Rapture, every post you make concerning the actual bread and butter of the game is constantly crying about "changing the meta" to the point where I'm no longer exaggerating by saying EVERY POST YOU MAKE ABOUT COMP GAMEPLAY IS CRYING ABOUT SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE META.
The projectile is huge and it explodes so you can miss and still do a lot of damage like with stickies. It knocks people around like no other weapon and goes through people like the machina so ya, it's pretty good.
The projectile is huge and it explodes so you can miss and still do a lot of damage like with stickies. It knocks people around like no other weapon and goes through people like the machina so ya, it's pretty good.
Stock grenades:
- No falloff; roughly 100 damage whenever you hit a direct
- Can make temporary hotspots for zoning purposes with rollers
- Can use for long range spam at places people are likely to be standing
- Effective against sentries
- Bad for close range combat because of self damage
Stock stickies:
- Special falloff mechanics
- Incredibly powerful as a damage dealing weapon
- Can make traps, incredible zoning potential
- Pissant at close range unless you dedicate all your attention to kiting your enemy into breadcrumbs
Loose canon (status quo; after the charge length shortening)
- Cannot be used for long range spam
- Capable of dealing higher burst damage than grenades, but need to be primed
- Lower donking DPS the closer your target is to you due to charge mechanics
- No necessary self damage at close range combat, but lower damage per hit
- Faster
- Can use rollers but nowhere near as effectively because of damage reduction
- Hueg
The way I see it the loose canon is a more appropriate sidearm to the stock sticky launcher than grenades, but it's significantly more iffy in the ways that it can be used effectively. The ways that it can be better than grenades in all have little tradeoffs attached to them.
Stock grenades:
- No falloff; roughly 100 damage whenever you hit a direct
- Can make temporary hotspots for zoning purposes with rollers
- Can use for long range spam at places people are likely to be standing
- Effective against sentries
- Bad for close range combat because of self damage
Stock stickies:
- Special falloff mechanics
- Incredibly powerful as a damage dealing weapon
- Can make traps, incredible zoning potential
- Pissant at close range unless you dedicate all your attention to kiting your enemy into breadcrumbs
Loose canon (status quo; after the charge length shortening)
- Cannot be used for long range spam
- Capable of dealing higher burst damage than grenades, but need to be primed
- Lower donking DPS the closer your target is to you due to charge mechanics
- No necessary self damage at close range combat, but lower damage per hit
- Faster
- Can use rollers but nowhere near as effectively because of damage reduction
- Hueg
The way I see it the loose canon is a more appropriate sidearm to the stock sticky launcher than grenades, but it's significantly more iffy in the ways that it can be used effectively. The ways that it can be better than grenades in all have little tradeoffs attached to them.
I'm not afraid to voice my opinion that 6v6 is stale (but I still love it) and seeing new items is hype. deal w/ it. If you don't like it just downfrag and move on. :>
also it was an excuse to bump the thread to have more discussion about the weapon because I'm actually enjoying post like smakers/wareyas
Does anyone have any demos/twitch vods of some top quality plays using the LC? A lot of people are talking about the absolute destruction in reigns on chokes and I'd love to find a good example of that.
I'm not afraid to voice my opinion that 6v6 is stale (but I still love it) and seeing new items is hype. deal w/ it. If you don't like it just downfrag and move on. :>
also it was an excuse to bump the thread to have more discussion about the weapon because I'm actually enjoying post like smakers/wareyas
Does anyone have any demos/twitch vods of some top quality plays using the LC? A lot of people are talking about the absolute destruction in reigns on chokes and I'd love to find a good example of that.
r4ptureDownfrag
[quote=r4pture]Downfrag[/quote]