If someone has already come up with this just ignore this thread ;_;
Ok so I had an idea for a new type of game mode : Similar to the way sd mixes ctf and payload, I thought what would happen if you mixed koth and 5cp together?
So basically to start capping second you would need have have held on to mid for a certain amount of time(with a koth style timer at the top saying how long each team has held the point for.) about 45-60secs seems right(in my head at least). When a team wins mid, mid is locked, second is unlocked, however second wont be neutral the defending team will already own it and their timer will begin counting down immediately(The idea is to give the opposing team a reason to push into second without stalemating. Because if the defenders hold second until their timer runs out second is locked and mid becomes unlocked again). Then once you have had a koth style fight over second you would need to hold that for say 15-20secs less then the time to hold mid. You would push on to last which might require being held for 15-20secs by the attacking team to win the round/game.
Now there is so much stuff still up in the air about how this would actually work(or if its even possible?) and I would love to hear your guys thoughts and ideas on how to actually refine/make this.
For example:
Should mid reset to neutral if second is successfully held by the defenders or should it remain the attackers and start ticking immediately?
Should last have a counting timer for the defenders so if they hold it long enough it locks and they basically have to push out while at the same time the attackers are basically forced to push before this timer runs out?
I have no map making/tf2 modding experience so does anyone who does think this is even possible?
And if it is, would it need completely new maps or could you mess with the current 5cp maps and basically port them over to koth while somehow creating multiple koth points on the map, and would you consider putting some time into making this actually work?
Do you think this would work in a competitive format?
So please let me know what you think about this, good idea, bad idea, strengths, weaknesses any and all feedback is appreciated, and remember I only just thought of this today so its likely im missing or overlooking a lot of details, so feel free to point them out.
If someone has already come up with this just ignore this thread ;_;
Ok so I had an idea for a new type of game mode : Similar to the way sd mixes ctf and payload, I thought what would happen if you mixed koth and 5cp together?
So basically to start capping second you would need have have held on to mid for a certain amount of time(with a koth style timer at the top saying how long each team has held the point for.) about 45-60secs seems right(in my head at least). When a team wins mid, mid is locked, second is unlocked, however second wont be neutral the defending team will already own it and their timer will begin counting down immediately(The idea is to give the opposing team a reason to push into second without stalemating. Because if the defenders hold second until their timer runs out second is locked and mid becomes unlocked again). Then once you have had a koth style fight over second you would need to hold that for say 15-20secs less then the time to hold mid. You would push on to last which might require being held for 15-20secs by the attacking team to win the round/game.
Now there is so much stuff still up in the air about how this would actually work(or if its even possible?) and I would love to hear your guys thoughts and ideas on how to actually refine/make this.
For example:
[list]Should mid reset to neutral if second is successfully held by the defenders or should it remain the attackers and start ticking immediately?
[/list]
[list]Should last have a counting timer for the defenders so if they hold it long enough it locks and they basically have to push out while at the same time the attackers are basically forced to push before this timer runs out?
[/list]
[list]I have no map making/tf2 modding experience so does anyone who does think this is even possible?
And if it is, would it need completely new maps or could you mess with the current 5cp maps and basically port them over to koth while somehow creating multiple koth points on the map, and would you consider putting some time into making this actually work?
[/list]
[list]Do you think this would work in a competitive format?
[/list]
So please let me know what you think about this, good idea, bad idea, strengths, weaknesses any and all feedback is appreciated, and remember I only just thought of this today so its likely im missing or overlooking a lot of details, so feel free to point them out.
This actually sounds pretty interesting. The only problem I can think of is time. If the CP keeps the same timers as KOTH, you're looking at a single match taking hours. And if it starts going back and forth, it's going to take even more time for a round to end.
Also, no backcaps.
This actually sounds pretty interesting. The only problem I can think of is time. If the CP keeps the same timers as KOTH, you're looking at a single match taking hours. And if it starts going back and forth, it's going to take even more time for a round to end.
Also, no backcaps.
That sounds like an interesting take on the "shot clock" idea, which had a few flaws. This sounds quite good, but the first problem I can see is what if the attacking team completely fucks up their push, which in a normal game would leave the defending team open to take mid. If mid was locked in this case, the defending team would be stuck on their second, introducing a stalemate.
That sounds like an interesting take on the "shot clock" idea, which had a few flaws. This sounds quite good, but the first problem I can see is what if the attacking team completely fucks up their push, which in a normal game would leave the defending team open to take mid. If mid was locked in this case, the defending team would be stuck on their second, introducing a stalemate.
DavidTheWinThat sounds like an interesting take on the "shot clock" idea, which had a few flaws. This sounds quite good, but the first problem I can see is what if the attacking team completely fucks up their push, which in a normal game would leave the defending team open to take mid. If mid was locked in this case, the defending team would be stuck on their second, introducing a stalemate.
You can still take the position on the middle point, right? Its 4am so I am having trouble imagining how this works but if I understand it correctly then the team holding middle pushes into second and fucks it up like you say then the team defending second caps second so their timer starts going down and then they move ahead into middle and take the position and deny the enemy team of any entry and then once their second timer runs down they can capture middle.
Also I like the idea I agree it seems like an interesting take on the shot clock
[quote=DavidTheWin]That sounds like an interesting take on the "shot clock" idea, which had a few flaws. This sounds quite good, but the first problem I can see is what if the attacking team completely fucks up their push, which in a normal game would leave the defending team open to take mid. If mid was locked in this case, the defending team would be stuck on their second, introducing a stalemate.[/quote]
You can still take the position on the middle point, right? Its 4am so I am having trouble imagining how this works but if I understand it correctly then the team holding middle pushes into second and fucks it up like you say then the team defending second caps second so their timer starts going down and then they move ahead into middle and take the position and deny the enemy team of any entry and then once their second timer runs down they can capture middle.
Also I like the idea I agree it seems like an interesting take on the shot clock
The only issue I can see thus far would be that while the gamemode would naturally encourage aggressive play, it pretty much takes away the option of sacking for a pick class as the pushing team, since by the time you respawn the enemy timer would probably either have already counted down or be on the verge of doing so, and suddenly that pick class that you sacked for becomes a liability on the defense unless you sacked for a defensive class in the first place, which in turn makes pushing harder. While I'm all for naturally aggressive gameplay, I don't feel that taking away a fairly successful method of initiating a push is the way to go. Perhaps extending the timer to something along the lines of like 1 1/2 to 2 minutes would allow for this option as well, as long as teams make this the decision for their strategy quick enough? Not sure on how this would affect the speed or flow of the gamemode in general. Overall though, this gamemode certainly seems really interesting in concept, and if someone could figure it out, I would love to see it in action.
The only issue I can see thus far would be that while the gamemode would naturally encourage aggressive play, it pretty much takes away the option of sacking for a pick class as the pushing team, since by the time you respawn the enemy timer would probably either have already counted down or be on the verge of doing so, and suddenly that pick class that you sacked for becomes a liability on the defense unless you sacked for a defensive class in the first place, which in turn makes pushing harder. While I'm all for naturally aggressive gameplay, I don't feel that taking away a fairly successful method of initiating a push is the way to go. Perhaps extending the timer to something along the lines of like 1 1/2 to 2 minutes would allow for this option as well, as long as teams make this the decision for their strategy quick enough? Not sure on how this would affect the speed or flow of the gamemode in general. Overall though, this gamemode certainly seems really interesting in concept, and if someone could figure it out, I would love to see it in action.
HeadfulofSandvich since by the time you respawn the enemy timer would probably either have already counted down or be on the verge of doing so, and suddenly that pick class that you sacked for becomes a liability
Lets say the attacking team sacs for a sniper and the defending team has started the clock at last to lock it down by the time the sniper gets up and into position yeah they will have capped/locked last and unlocked second but they are still completely contained and the team with the sniper can just cap second again and eventually unlock last with the sniper already up and ready to make the advantage they need/want.
Sorry if I am misunderstanding how the mode works but it seems like everyone is assuming that you cannot go past the point you own and hold a forward position.
I have been imagining this all on Snakewater for some reason, I think the mode would work best on a new map with really well thought out forward spawns so if you wipe a team that pushes your last right before last locks down you can quickly move up, put a scout on second to start running down the timer while the rest of your team can move up into the enemy forward spawn area (area not spawn door like a nice area to fight in that they respawn at) to try and keep them out and keep pushing your momentum and then say you win that fight do the same to the next forward spawn area.
[quote=HeadfulofSandvich] since by the time you respawn the enemy timer would probably either have already counted down or be on the verge of doing so, and suddenly that pick class that you sacked for becomes a liability[/quote]
Lets say the attacking team sacs for a sniper and the defending team has started the clock at last to lock it down by the time the sniper gets up and into position yeah they will have capped/locked last and unlocked second but they are still completely contained and the team with the sniper can just cap second again and eventually unlock last with the sniper already up and ready to make the advantage they need/want.
Sorry if I am misunderstanding how the mode works but it seems like everyone is assuming that you cannot go past the point you own and hold a forward position.
I have been imagining this all on Snakewater for some reason, I think the mode would work best on a new map with really well thought out forward spawns so if you wipe a team that pushes your last right before last locks down you can quickly move up, put a scout on second to start running down the timer while the rest of your team can move up into the enemy forward spawn area (area not spawn door like a nice area to fight in that they respawn at) to try and keep them out and keep pushing your momentum and then say you win that fight do the same to the next forward spawn area.
Yes, it's possible, but it'd be much easier to do as part of the map than as a plugin.
Yes, it's possible, but it'd be much easier to do as part of the map than as a plugin.
Wasnt something like this on a map already? I forgot what it was called... It looked like metalworks, but different and much more open.
Wasnt something like this on a map already? I forgot what it was called... It looked like metalworks, but different and much more open.
ugc tried it on dom_canalzone.
it was terrible
ugc tried it on dom_canalzone.
it was terrible
this is how I understand it
http://i.imgur.com/8SXGugZ.png
I can see it fixing stalemates as we know them, but make stalemates by endless back and forth more common. The times also shouldn't be symmetrical, like 10 seconds to hold last on offense and 30 seconds for defense, or something like that.
this is how I understand it
[img]http://i.imgur.com/8SXGugZ.png[/img]
I can see it fixing stalemates as we know them, but make stalemates by endless back and forth more common. The times also shouldn't be symmetrical, like 10 seconds to hold last on offense and 30 seconds for defense, or something like that.
Just did a little test with two control points, it's possible to do. Different timers for offense/defense and reverting mid to neutral are possible too, if you want that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FX8G-x0IwXo
Anyone who wants to sacrifice their 3cp/5cp map for science here?
Just did a little test with two control points, it's possible to do. Different timers for offense/defense and reverting mid to neutral are possible too, if you want that.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FX8G-x0IwXo[/youtube]
Anyone who wants to sacrifice their 3cp/5cp map for science here?
Apologies in advance for the wall of text:
SuyoJust did a little test with two control points, it's possible to do. Different timers for offense/defense and reverting mid to neutral are possible too, if you want that.
Anyone who wants to sacrifice their 3cp/5cp map for science here?
Thats great Suyo thats pretty much the proof of concept I was looking for :D
Although it would be great if it could have a koth style timer with both teams times but im sure this can be worked out later.
If need someone to help test this on an actual map sign me up :)
CheesyMacgyverSorry if I am misunderstanding how the mode works but it seems like everyone is assuming that you cannot go past the point you own and hold a forward position.
I have been imagining this all on Snakewater for some reason,
Thats basically the idea is if you wipe them why wouldn't you move up and at least take a forward position, if not go all the way to second(this could also present opportunities for backcaps by defenders if the other team goes all the way to second.) The idea with the 1min timer on mid though is it should basically allow for two intense mid fights where the team that lost the initial mid might as well just go in to try and cap it because if they die then they should have enough time to respawn and at least attempt a second defense.
P.S for some reason i have been picturing all this on Process so go figure
IceCrystalThe times also shouldn't be symmetrical, like 10 seconds to hold last on offense and 30 seconds for defense, or something like that.
Yep it definitely something we wont know until after extensive testing, but that sounds about right.
HeadfulofSandvichit pretty much takes away the option of sacking for a pick class as the pushing team.
Perhaps extending the timer to something along the lines of like 1 1/2 to 2 minutes would allow for this option as well. Not sure on how this would affect the speed or flow of the gamemode in general.
Firstly thanks for you feedback I see what you mean with the pick classes and dont get me wrong I love when non cookie cutter classes are being used, but considering pick classes are basically only brought in to break the stalemate where no-one wants to push, the timer would result in teams just having to go and fight them anyway so there would hopefully not be a stalemate for these pick classes to need to break.
Or it would simply require advance planing, say if you have 25sec on the clock at second you could send you roamer in for a med pick and have him some back sniper, ready for the last push.
As for expanding the time to 1 1/2 or 2 mins if you are meaning all points should take this long I think that would kind of defeat the purpose because the idea is to stop teams just stalemating out and building ubers before their push, they should just go for it where they have uber adv or not making it more intense for the players but also anyone watching a stream won't be going "Why are they all standing around spamming rockets at nothing" they will see the crazy action and go "wow i want to get into this."(hopefully).
Also last would become basically impossible to hold as the attackers at least on a regular 5cp map.
CheesyMacgyverAlso I like the idea I agree it seems like an interesting take on the shot clock
DavidTheWininteresting take on the "shot clock" idea
I didnt even think of a basketball shot clock when I got this idea and the worst part is I actually played quite a bit of basketball lol
Apologies in advance for the wall of text:
[quote=Suyo]Just did a little test with two control points, it's possible to do. Different timers for offense/defense and reverting mid to neutral are possible too, if you want that.
Anyone who wants to sacrifice their 3cp/5cp map for science here?[/quote]
Thats great Suyo thats pretty much the proof of concept I was looking for :D
Although it would be great if it could have a koth style timer with both teams times but im sure this can be worked out later.
If need someone to help test this on an actual map sign me up :)
[quote=CheesyMacgyver]
Sorry if I am misunderstanding how the mode works but it seems like everyone is assuming that you cannot go past the point you own and hold a forward position.
I have been imagining this all on Snakewater for some reason,[/quote]
Thats basically the idea is if you wipe them why wouldn't you move up and at least take a forward position, if not go all the way to second(this could also present opportunities for backcaps by defenders if the other team goes all the way to second.) The idea with the 1min timer on mid though is it should basically allow for two intense mid fights where the team that lost the initial mid might as well just go in to try and cap it because if they die then they should have enough time to respawn and at least attempt a second defense.
P.S for some reason i have been picturing all this on Process so go figure
[quote=IceCrystal]The times also shouldn't be symmetrical, like 10 seconds to hold last on offense and 30 seconds for defense, or something like that.[/quote]
Yep it definitely something we wont know until after extensive testing, but that sounds about right.
[quote=HeadfulofSandvich]it pretty much takes away the option of sacking for a pick class as the pushing team.
Perhaps extending the timer to something along the lines of like 1 1/2 to 2 minutes would allow for this option as well. Not sure on how this would affect the speed or flow of the gamemode in general. [/quote]
Firstly thanks for you feedback I see what you mean with the pick classes and dont get me wrong I love when non cookie cutter classes are being used, but considering pick classes are basically only brought in to break the stalemate where no-one wants to push, the timer would result in teams just having to go and fight them anyway so there would hopefully not be a stalemate for these pick classes to need to break.
Or it would simply require advance planing, say if you have 25sec on the clock at second you could send you roamer in for a med pick and have him some back sniper, ready for the last push.
As for expanding the time to 1 1/2 or 2 mins if you are meaning all points should take this long I think that would kind of defeat the purpose because the idea is to stop teams just stalemating out and building ubers before their push, they should just go for it where they have uber adv or not making it more intense for the players but also anyone watching a stream won't be going "Why are they all standing around spamming rockets at nothing" they will see the crazy action and go "wow i want to get into this."(hopefully).
Also last would become basically impossible to hold as the attackers at least on a regular 5cp map.
[quote=CheesyMacgyver]Also I like the idea I agree it seems like an interesting take on the shot clock [/quote]
[quote=DavidTheWin]interesting take on the "shot clock" idea[/quote]
I didnt even think of a basketball shot clock when I got this idea and the worst part is I actually played quite a bit of basketball lol