12:30 PM - SizzlingCalamari: gimmie shoutout pls
12:30 PM - SizzlingCalamari: pls
shoutout to sizzlingcalamari, creator of sizzlingstats. you're doing it
ESEA's possible demise?
posted in
TF2 General Discussion
12:30 PM - SizzlingCalamari: gimmie shoutout pls
12:30 PM - SizzlingCalamari: pls
shoutout to sizzlingcalamari, creator of [i]sizzlingstats[/i]. you're doing it
12:30 PM - SizzlingCalamari: pls
shoutout to sizzlingcalamari, creator of [i]sizzlingstats[/i]. you're doing it
drexeleyremedyalso i think tops and bottoms should work towards each others benefit (and pleasure)
What benefit does the bottom have by helping the top?
well in serious terms having a healthy top of invite could help the game grow more, but i was making a gay sex joke
[quote=drexeley][quote=remedy]also i think tops and bottoms should work towards each others benefit (and pleasure)[/quote]
What benefit does the bottom have by helping the top?[/quote]
well in serious terms having a healthy top of invite could help the game grow more, but i was making a gay sex joke
What benefit does the bottom have by helping the top?[/quote]
well in serious terms having a healthy top of invite could help the game grow more, but i was making a gay sex joke
ninjanickI wish the drunk conversations about ESEA and CEVO during FITES were recorded. Where are eXtine and marmaduke to duke it out online as well. Yaoo?!?!
dude when i get drunk i get fucking HYPED over whatevers being debated. i feel like i was victorious.
[quote=ninjanick]I wish the drunk conversations about ESEA and CEVO during FITES were recorded. Where are eXtine and marmaduke to duke it out online as well. Yaoo?!?![/quote]
dude when i get drunk i get fucking HYPED over whatevers being debated. i feel like i was victorious.
dude when i get drunk i get fucking HYPED over whatevers being debated. i feel like i was victorious.
freakinhooliis there a match stat page example i can seehttp://cevo.com/event/tf2-6v6/match/18893/
Quindali[*] STV Download.
just sayin.
[quote=freakin][quote=hooli]is there a match stat page example i can see[/quote]
http://cevo.com/event/tf2-6v6/match/18893/[/quote]
[quote=Quindali]
[*] [b]STV Download.[/b] [/quote]
[img]http://puu.sh/79793.png[/img]
just sayin.
http://cevo.com/event/tf2-6v6/match/18893/[/quote]
[quote=Quindali]
[*] [b]STV Download.[/b] [/quote]
[img]http://puu.sh/79793.png[/img]
just sayin.
marmadukeGRYLLSninjanickI wish the drunk conversations about ESEA and CEVO during FITES were recorded. Where are eXtine and marmaduke to duke it out online as well. Yaoo?!?!
dude when i get drunk i get fucking HYPED over whatevers being debated. i feel like i was victorious.
i just wish i had a video of you doing your conch imitation
[quote=marmadukeGRYLLS][quote=ninjanick]I wish the drunk conversations about ESEA and CEVO during FITES were recorded. Where are eXtine and marmaduke to duke it out online as well. Yaoo?!?![/quote]
dude when i get drunk i get fucking HYPED over whatevers being debated. i feel like i was victorious.[/quote]
i just wish i had a video of you doing your conch imitation
dude when i get drunk i get fucking HYPED over whatevers being debated. i feel like i was victorious.[/quote]
i just wish i had a video of you doing your conch imitation
PlatinumRikachuYou gonna take that from a sandbagger, Plat?
Can't sandbag when terrible
At least seanbud gets to be a top player again if everyone better than him quits.
[quote=Platinum][quote=Rikachu]You gonna take that from a sandbagger, Plat?[/quote]
Can't sandbag when terrible[/quote]
At least seanbud gets to be a top player again if everyone better than him quits.
Can't sandbag when terrible[/quote]
At least seanbud gets to be a top player again if everyone better than him quits.
dude conch imitations, quad damage imitations, i fuckin do it all
dude conch imitations, quad damage imitations, i fuckin do it all
drexeleyrr-Well one thing people seem to not understand is that in any game, the people at the top don't play for the bottoms benefit, and the people at the bottom don't play for the tops benefit. So that argument people are using is terrible
If it wasn't for the multitude of low division players paying for your LAN you wouldn't be going every year. You should know this because TF2 doesn't matter to any sponsor (hasn't for years) or twitch viewship. ESEA has 10x the viewership with CS than with team fortress.
Without the people at the bottom, you wouldn't have a LAN. Its incredible that there even is one right now. Odd that you ignore that.
Why would you pay for invites lan? Are you dumb? You pay to play against good competition because you want to be a better player. Sure some teams play just for fun with their friends, and that's fine. But most people play to get better and hopefully one day work their way up towards invite, main, Im, whatever division they really want to play at. I wouldn't touch this game if there was no reason for me to play. I play to play against the best of NA. I play because its fun to play with other friends too. I literally went to my first lan ever last season, and it was a fucking blast. If you don't place 2nd or 1st, you lose money so idk how you actually pay for anyone's lan besides first or second. Even the second place check was 327 or something, add in food costs, hotel.costs, and its only like a 100-125 gain. I could make that in a matter of days instead of months of scrimming 5 times a night for 2 hours. And if you think we play for a free.lan, man u are dumb
tldr if u don't play the game for your own reason, and think you're only paying for invites benefit then idk what to even think about you.
[quote=drexeley][quote=rr-]Well one thing people seem to not understand is that in any game, the people at the top don't play for the bottoms benefit, and the people at the bottom don't play for the tops benefit. So that argument people are using is terrible[/quote]
If it wasn't for the multitude of low division players paying for your LAN you wouldn't be going every year. You should know this because TF2 doesn't matter to any sponsor (hasn't for years) or twitch viewship. ESEA has 10x the viewership with CS than with team fortress.
Without the people at the bottom, you wouldn't have a LAN. Its incredible that there even is one right now. Odd that you ignore that.[/quote]
Why would you pay for invites lan? Are you dumb? You pay to play against good competition because you want to be a better player. Sure some teams play just for fun with their friends, and that's fine. But most people play to get better and hopefully one day work their way up towards invite, main, Im, whatever division they really want to play at. I wouldn't touch this game if there was no reason for me to play. I play to play against the best of NA. I play because its fun to play with other friends too. I literally went to my first lan ever last season, and it was a fucking blast. If you don't place 2nd or 1st, you lose money so idk how you actually pay for anyone's lan besides first or second. Even the second place check was 327 or something, add in food costs, hotel.costs, and its only like a 100-125 gain. I could make that in a matter of days instead of months of scrimming 5 times a night for 2 hours. And if you think we play for a free.lan, man u are dumb
tldr if u don't play the game for your own reason, and think you're only paying for invites benefit then idk what to even think about you.
If it wasn't for the multitude of low division players paying for your LAN you wouldn't be going every year. You should know this because TF2 doesn't matter to any sponsor (hasn't for years) or twitch viewship. ESEA has 10x the viewership with CS than with team fortress.
Without the people at the bottom, you wouldn't have a LAN. Its incredible that there even is one right now. Odd that you ignore that.[/quote]
Why would you pay for invites lan? Are you dumb? You pay to play against good competition because you want to be a better player. Sure some teams play just for fun with their friends, and that's fine. But most people play to get better and hopefully one day work their way up towards invite, main, Im, whatever division they really want to play at. I wouldn't touch this game if there was no reason for me to play. I play to play against the best of NA. I play because its fun to play with other friends too. I literally went to my first lan ever last season, and it was a fucking blast. If you don't place 2nd or 1st, you lose money so idk how you actually pay for anyone's lan besides first or second. Even the second place check was 327 or something, add in food costs, hotel.costs, and its only like a 100-125 gain. I could make that in a matter of days instead of months of scrimming 5 times a night for 2 hours. And if you think we play for a free.lan, man u are dumb
tldr if u don't play the game for your own reason, and think you're only paying for invites benefit then idk what to even think about you.
seanbudmaybe without LAN we won't have to kill other LAN contending teams to try and beat b4nny every season.
we love anime: alive
LiT/XTS: alive
6cuties: alive
where is sureshot: alive
mix^: alive
clock's team: alive
it's weird how teams stay alive when they don't get emo and go to open because "invites too hard :("
i went 1-15 back to back seasons and am still interested in playing at the highest level against the best players and teams. sorry we're not all butthurt bitches who want easy wins in open (btw sick dh pocket...im sorry i meant scouting, in open bro!)
[quote=seanbud]maybe without LAN we won't have to kill other LAN contending teams to try and beat b4nny every season.[/quote]
we love anime: alive
LiT/XTS: alive
6cuties: alive
where is sureshot: alive
mix^: alive
clock's team: alive
it's weird how teams stay alive when they don't get emo and go to open because "invites too hard :("
i went 1-15 back to back seasons and am still interested in playing at the highest level against the best players and teams. sorry we're not all butthurt bitches who want easy wins in open (btw sick dh pocket...im sorry i meant scouting, in open bro!)
we love anime: alive
LiT/XTS: alive
6cuties: alive
where is sureshot: alive
mix^: alive
clock's team: alive
it's weird how teams stay alive when they don't get emo and go to open because "invites too hard :("
i went 1-15 back to back seasons and am still interested in playing at the highest level against the best players and teams. sorry we're not all butthurt bitches who want easy wins in open (btw sick dh pocket...im sorry i meant scouting, in open bro!)
remedyit's 100% understandable why lower teams would leave esea for cevo at the moment, but acting like its going to help the game in some way is pretty wrong.
If the majority of the player base is in the lower levels, and they all move to a service that's better for them, isn't that making the game better as a whole?
[quote=remedy]it's 100% understandable why lower teams would leave esea for cevo at the moment, but acting like its going to help the game in some way is pretty wrong.[/quote]
If the majority of the player base is in the lower levels, and they all move to a service that's better for them, isn't that making the game better as a whole?
If the majority of the player base is in the lower levels, and they all move to a service that's better for them, isn't that making the game better as a whole?
I'm making a competitive connect four league who's in?
I'm making a competitive connect four league who's in?
YouMustMikeI'm making a competitive connect four league who's in?
Is there a LAN?
[quote=YouMustMike]I'm making a competitive connect four league who's in?[/quote]
Is there a LAN?
Is there a LAN?
If you're rational enough to understand why some players hold the LAN as their sole motivation for playing, it should also be fathomable that there are at least as many who could give a shit.
If sticking with ESEA and continuing to shove money at them is an important point of value for them, and for Killing personally in particular, then why the serial contempt of the game from management, and constant reminders that the game is a department consistently in the red for them? Why should begrudging charity warrant unwavering support? A clean break sounds mutually beneficial, Killing aside.
If you can argue that x number of seasons of support is worthy of some measure of loyalty in return, you might also be able to argue that the Bitcoin fiasco, among a litany of other examples of blatant mismanagement over the years, might add up to a serious issue of trust for some players who aren't so invested in a LAN.
Because that's what this comes down to, doesn't it? I'm not sure how any argument against the CEVO movement adds up to anything greater than a massive sunk cost fallacy. Remove all the cognitive dissonance and selective arguments in this thread and you're left with 'BUT top players love the LAN' over and over. Sure, the era of top-division players playing for shits like it's CAL in 2004 is long gone, understood. That isn't justification for putting on two or three LANs a year for a scene that just doesn't have the numbers for it. Attempting to guilt the rest of the community that doesn't want to prop up that status quo with their wallets anymore is bullshit. Call it what you will, bandwagoning, abandonment, outsider/pubbers peddling their worthless opinions (as I can already see some of you warming up your keyboards for), killing the game, hivemind clusterfuck, whatever; it's just players saying 'fuck this we're out.'
So figure something else out. Move to CEVO where it's cheaper for everyone and less cognitive dissonance for many. Relieve ESEA of their terrible mistake in picking this game up in the first place. Pick an existing LAN collectively where y'all can plant your flag once a year and go from there. It will be a couple steps back for a bit, but everyone won't feel so fleeced or be angry enough to kick off 700 post essay threads anymore.
If you're rational enough to understand why some players hold the LAN as their sole motivation for playing, it should also be fathomable that there are at least as many who could give a shit.
If sticking with ESEA and continuing to shove money at them is an important point of value for them, and for Killing personally in particular, then why the serial contempt of the game from management, and constant reminders that the game is a department consistently in the red for them? Why should begrudging charity warrant unwavering support? A clean break sounds mutually beneficial, Killing aside.
If you can argue that x number of seasons of support is worthy of some measure of loyalty in return, you might also be able to argue that the Bitcoin fiasco, among a litany of other examples of blatant mismanagement over the years, might add up to a serious issue of trust for some players who aren't so invested in a LAN.
Because that's what this comes down to, doesn't it? I'm not sure how any argument against the CEVO movement adds up to anything greater than a massive sunk cost fallacy. Remove all the cognitive dissonance and selective arguments in this thread and you're left with 'BUT top players love the LAN' over and over. Sure, the era of top-division players playing for shits like it's CAL in 2004 is long gone, understood. That isn't justification for putting on two or three LANs a year for a scene that just doesn't have the numbers for it. Attempting to guilt the rest of the community that doesn't want to prop up that status quo with their wallets anymore is bullshit. Call it what you will, bandwagoning, abandonment, outsider/pubbers peddling their worthless opinions (as I can already see some of you warming up your keyboards for), killing the game, hivemind clusterfuck, whatever; it's just players saying 'fuck this we're out.'
So figure something else out. Move to CEVO where it's cheaper for everyone and less cognitive dissonance for many. Relieve ESEA of their terrible mistake in picking this game up in the first place. Pick an existing LAN collectively where y'all can plant your flag once a year and go from there. It will be a couple steps back for a bit, but everyone won't feel so fleeced or be angry enough to kick off 700 post essay threads anymore.
If sticking with ESEA and continuing to shove money at them is an important point of value for them, and for Killing personally in particular, then why the serial contempt of the game from management, and constant reminders that the game is a department consistently in the red for them? Why should begrudging charity warrant unwavering support? A clean break sounds mutually beneficial, Killing aside.
If you can argue that x number of seasons of support is worthy of some measure of loyalty in return, you might also be able to argue that the Bitcoin fiasco, among a litany of other examples of blatant mismanagement over the years, might add up to a serious issue of trust for some players who aren't so invested in a LAN.
Because that's what this comes down to, doesn't it? I'm not sure how any argument against the CEVO movement adds up to anything greater than a massive sunk cost fallacy. Remove all the cognitive dissonance and selective arguments in this thread and you're left with 'BUT top players love the LAN' over and over. Sure, the era of top-division players playing for shits like it's CAL in 2004 is long gone, understood. That isn't justification for putting on two or three LANs a year for a scene that just doesn't have the numbers for it. Attempting to guilt the rest of the community that doesn't want to prop up that status quo with their wallets anymore is bullshit. Call it what you will, bandwagoning, abandonment, outsider/pubbers peddling their worthless opinions (as I can already see some of you warming up your keyboards for), killing the game, hivemind clusterfuck, whatever; it's just players saying 'fuck this we're out.'
So figure something else out. Move to CEVO where it's cheaper for everyone and less cognitive dissonance for many. Relieve ESEA of their terrible mistake in picking this game up in the first place. Pick an existing LAN collectively where y'all can plant your flag once a year and go from there. It will be a couple steps back for a bit, but everyone won't feel so fleeced or be angry enough to kick off 700 post essay threads anymore.
rr-tldr if u don't play the game for your own reason, and think you're only paying for invites benefit then idk what to even think about you.
Use your brain, LANs cost a ton of money. The fees that invite players pay do not cover the costs of a TF2 LAN. Which means that the money must come from elsewhere. That money comes from, you guessed it, people in the lower divisions.
I would be dumbfounded if the invite players cover a majority of the LAN fees themselves. Not to mention the servers they use in the regular season, and the sys admins that ESEA hires to maintenance their servers.
The online-only players pay a disproportionate amount of the costs in ESEA tf2. This makes sense since they exist in larger numbers, and its easy to recognize that they cover your LAN costs. (Other than the hotel and plane fees you mentioned)
[quote=rr-]
tldr if u don't play the game for your own reason, and think you're only paying for invites benefit then idk what to even think about you.[/quote]
Use your brain, LANs cost a ton of money. The fees that invite players pay do not cover the costs of a TF2 LAN. Which means that the money must come from elsewhere. That money comes from, you guessed it, people in the lower divisions.
I would be dumbfounded if the invite players cover a majority of the LAN fees themselves. Not to mention the servers they use in the regular season, and the sys admins that ESEA hires to maintenance their servers.
The online-only players pay a disproportionate amount of the costs in ESEA tf2. This makes sense since they exist in larger numbers, and its easy to recognize that they cover your LAN costs. (Other than the hotel and plane fees you mentioned)
tldr if u don't play the game for your own reason, and think you're only paying for invites benefit then idk what to even think about you.[/quote]
Use your brain, LANs cost a ton of money. The fees that invite players pay do not cover the costs of a TF2 LAN. Which means that the money must come from elsewhere. That money comes from, you guessed it, people in the lower divisions.
I would be dumbfounded if the invite players cover a majority of the LAN fees themselves. Not to mention the servers they use in the regular season, and the sys admins that ESEA hires to maintenance their servers.
The online-only players pay a disproportionate amount of the costs in ESEA tf2. This makes sense since they exist in larger numbers, and its easy to recognize that they cover your LAN costs. (Other than the hotel and plane fees you mentioned)
synchroremedyit's 100% understandable why lower teams would leave esea for cevo at the moment, but acting like its going to help the game in some way is pretty wrong.If the majority of the player base is in the lower levels, and they all move to a service that's better for them, isn't that making the game better as a whole?
If you killed off 70% of the players in CSGO invite do and gave the rest of the game a magical league of fairy tails and rainbows do you think CSGO would be a better game? High level competition makes a game successful.
[quote=synchro][quote=remedy]it's 100% understandable why lower teams would leave esea for cevo at the moment, but acting like its going to help the game in some way is pretty wrong.[/quote]
If the majority of the player base is in the lower levels, and they all move to a service that's better for them, isn't that making the game better as a whole?[/quote]
If you killed off 70% of the players in CSGO invite do and gave the rest of the game a magical league of fairy tails and rainbows do you think CSGO would be a better game? High level competition makes a game successful.
If the majority of the player base is in the lower levels, and they all move to a service that's better for them, isn't that making the game better as a whole?[/quote]
If you killed off 70% of the players in CSGO invite do and gave the rest of the game a magical league of fairy tails and rainbows do you think CSGO would be a better game? High level competition makes a game successful.
synchroremedyit's 100% understandable why lower teams would leave esea for cevo at the moment, but acting like its going to help the game in some way is pretty wrong.If the majority of the player base is in the lower levels, and they all move to a service that's better for them, isn't that making the game better as a whole?
no and this is why youre still a fucking moron
[quote=synchro][quote=remedy]it's 100% understandable why lower teams would leave esea for cevo at the moment, but acting like its going to help the game in some way is pretty wrong.[/quote]
If the majority of the player base is in the lower levels, and they all move to a service that's better for them, isn't that making the game better as a whole?[/quote]
no and this is why youre still a fucking moron
If the majority of the player base is in the lower levels, and they all move to a service that's better for them, isn't that making the game better as a whole?[/quote]
no and this is why youre still a fucking moron
synchroYeeegzIs seanbud mad he can't beat b4nny? boohoohttp://www.ugcleague.com/players_page.cfm?player_id=76561197994199456
john_milter'd
edit: yes I'm aware yeeegz is better than me and on a good team that's not the point of ugc linking??
listen here tc,0-20,trashcan, don't associate me with your shit posting. Please stay in the dumpster.
[quote=synchro][quote=Yeeegz]Is seanbud mad he can't beat b4nny? boohoo[/quote]
http://www.ugcleague.com/players_page.cfm?player_id=76561197994199456
john_milter'd
edit: yes I'm aware yeeegz is better than me and on a good team that's not the point of ugc linking??[/quote]
listen here tc,0-20,trashcan, don't associate me with your shit posting. Please stay in the dumpster.
http://www.ugcleague.com/players_page.cfm?player_id=76561197994199456
john_milter'd
edit: yes I'm aware yeeegz is better than me and on a good team that's not the point of ugc linking??[/quote]
listen here tc,0-20,trashcan, don't associate me with your shit posting. Please stay in the dumpster.
rando
If you killed off 70% of the players in CSGO invite do and gave the rest of the game a magical league of fairy tails and rainbows do you think CSGO would be a better game? High level competition makes a game successful.
yes...You would. Because ESEA counter strike is a very very small portion of the Counter Strike competitive scene. Larger eSports are played in tournaments with larger cash prizes. ESEA Counter Strike is a much lower skill level compared to their European counterparts who participate in LAN tournaments.
The top NA CS team coL (you could argue iBuy I guess) would be very happy to crack the top 4 in an international LAN.
[quote=rando]
If you killed off 70% of the players in CSGO invite do and gave the rest of the game a magical league of fairy tails and rainbows do you think CSGO would be a better game? High level competition makes a game successful.[/quote]
yes...You would. Because ESEA counter strike is a very very small portion of the Counter Strike competitive scene. Larger eSports are played in tournaments with larger cash prizes. ESEA Counter Strike is a much lower skill level compared to their European counterparts who participate in LAN tournaments.
The top NA CS team coL (you could argue iBuy I guess) would be very happy to crack the top 4 in an international LAN.
If you killed off 70% of the players in CSGO invite do and gave the rest of the game a magical league of fairy tails and rainbows do you think CSGO would be a better game? High level competition makes a game successful.[/quote]
yes...You would. Because ESEA counter strike is a very very small portion of the Counter Strike competitive scene. Larger eSports are played in tournaments with larger cash prizes. ESEA Counter Strike is a much lower skill level compared to their European counterparts who participate in LAN tournaments.
The top NA CS team coL (you could argue iBuy I guess) would be very happy to crack the top 4 in an international LAN.
synchroIf the majority of the player base is in the lower levels, and they all move to a service that's better for them, isn't that making the game better as a whole?
if you get to assume cevo is going to be better for them am i allowed to assume that esea would've been flawless this season and lan would've catapulted tf2 to unprecedented levels of popularity?
[quote=synchro]
If the majority of the player base is in the lower levels, and they all move to a service that's better for them, isn't that making the game better as a whole?[/quote]
if you get to assume cevo is going to be better for them am i allowed to assume that esea would've been flawless this season and lan would've catapulted tf2 to unprecedented levels of popularity?
If the majority of the player base is in the lower levels, and they all move to a service that's better for them, isn't that making the game better as a whole?[/quote]
if you get to assume cevo is going to be better for them am i allowed to assume that esea would've been flawless this season and lan would've catapulted tf2 to unprecedented levels of popularity?
well im just gonna take my magic carpet to europe thats only 50 quid and enjoy etf2l later guys
well im just gonna take my magic carpet to europe thats only 50 quid and enjoy etf2l later guys
Invite teams need an ESEA LAN so that they can prove they're good enough to go to i52 and lose against teams in Prem
Invite teams need an ESEA LAN so that they can prove they're good enough to go to i52 and lose against teams in Prem
drexeleyrando
If you killed off 70% of the players in CSGO invite do and gave the rest of the game a magical league of fairy tails and rainbows do you think CSGO would be a better game? High level competition makes a game successful.
yes...You would. Because ESEA counter strike is a very very small portion of the Counter Strike competitive scene. Larger eSports are played in tournaments with larger cash prizes. ESEA Counter Strike is a much lower skill level compared to their European counterparts who participate in LAN tournaments.
The top NA CS team coL (you could argue iBuy I guess) would be very happy to crack the top 4 in an international LAN.
I was strictly talking about NA here but thanks
[quote=drexeley][quote=rando]
If you killed off 70% of the players in CSGO invite do and gave the rest of the game a magical league of fairy tails and rainbows do you think CSGO would be a better game? High level competition makes a game successful.[/quote]
yes...You would. Because ESEA counter strike is a very very small portion of the Counter Strike competitive scene. Larger eSports are played in tournaments with larger cash prizes. ESEA Counter Strike is a much lower skill level compared to their European counterparts who participate in LAN tournaments.
The top NA CS team coL (you could argue iBuy I guess) would be very happy to crack the top 4 in an international LAN.[/quote]
I was strictly talking about NA here but thanks
If you killed off 70% of the players in CSGO invite do and gave the rest of the game a magical league of fairy tails and rainbows do you think CSGO would be a better game? High level competition makes a game successful.[/quote]
yes...You would. Because ESEA counter strike is a very very small portion of the Counter Strike competitive scene. Larger eSports are played in tournaments with larger cash prizes. ESEA Counter Strike is a much lower skill level compared to their European counterparts who participate in LAN tournaments.
The top NA CS team coL (you could argue iBuy I guess) would be very happy to crack the top 4 in an international LAN.[/quote]
I was strictly talking about NA here but thanks
QuindaliblinKI'm not against CEVO at all I just think that letting ESEA disappear is going to be an extremely bad move for the community and create a big fallout of top level players.
You say this as if it's within one person's power to change the outcome. ESEA disappearance's proximate cause is the lack of open teams registering this season. But what are the ultimate causes? It's a combination of factors that have been a long time in the works and the most accurate place of blame if you're looking for it is ESEA themselves. If they gave open teams a reason to register, then the open teams would've registered. ESEA let itself die by its inaction and lack of initiative in improving its league or accomodating its players. No one "let" anything happen.
I like you Quin, you know I do. So i'll just lay it all out right here in one single ginormous question that everyone would love to know and please don't spare any details.
Question:
Do you really think in just a few days you will be able to offer a league that's an equal to ESEA AS IT IS RIGHT NOW, or do you think that will take a good amount of time? 4 competitive divisions, website functioning, servers, lans, etc.
My own personal question:
If the answer is no, which it has to be, then why have you guys been campaigning for months when you knew it would come to this? Not saying it's bad, if CEVO was 100% ready to provide something equal to what ESEA provides I wouldn't even be posting this right now. But clearly there's much to be done. So my own personal question is, since the malware is gone in ESEA, why do YOU think we need to change?
ESEA has been around for 16 seasons they shouldn't have to campaign for newer players like you guys did. They could always improve their system but they don't need an entire overhaul like CEVO does. Never before have I ever really seen ESEA on the forums campaigning for new members because everyone already knew that was our "premier" league. Obviously you guys joining forces with CEVO and making a big run for it publically when this has never happened before would split the community. So if this was your intention then I really hope you, Lange, and everyone else all of whom I respect really know what you're doing. Otherwise you're going to put a big hurt on competitive TF2 for absolutely no reason at all besides shifting websites and putting out a lesser quality league initially. In a game that's 7 years old and already questionably in decline competitively it's a real fragile situation.
Do you really think if CEVO hadn't come about, that ESEA would be having these problems filling up their open division? I don't think so. If it's not broke don't fix it. That's my opinion. And I don't really like ESEA as a company I just enjoy the best competition. I don't like to work either. I have to go there though to make money unfortunately if I want to have nice things in life.
[quote=Quindali][quote=blinK]I'm not against CEVO at all I just think that letting ESEA disappear is going to be an extremely bad move for the community and create a big fallout of top level players.[/quote]
You say this as if it's within one person's power to change the outcome. ESEA disappearance's proximate cause is the lack of open teams registering this season. But what are the ultimate causes? It's a combination of factors that have been a long time in the works and the most accurate place of blame if you're looking for it is ESEA themselves. If they gave open teams a reason to register, then the open teams would've registered. ESEA let itself die by its inaction and lack of initiative in improving its league or accomodating its players. No one "let" anything happen.[/quote]
I like you Quin, you know I do. So i'll just lay it all out right here in one single ginormous question that everyone would love to know and please don't spare any details.
Question:
Do you really think in just a few days you will be able to offer a league that's an equal to ESEA AS IT IS RIGHT NOW, or do you think that will take a good amount of time? 4 competitive divisions, website functioning, servers, lans, etc.
My own personal question:
If the answer is no, which it has to be, then why have you guys been campaigning for months when you knew it would come to this? Not saying it's bad, if CEVO was 100% ready to provide something equal to what ESEA provides I wouldn't even be posting this right now. But clearly there's much to be done. So my own personal question is, since the malware is gone in ESEA, why do YOU think we need to change?
ESEA has been around for 16 seasons they shouldn't have to campaign for newer players like you guys did. They could always improve their system but they don't need an entire overhaul like CEVO does. Never before have I ever really seen ESEA on the forums campaigning for new members because everyone already knew that was our "premier" league. Obviously you guys joining forces with CEVO and making a big run for it publically when this has never happened before would split the community. So if this was your intention then I really hope you, Lange, and everyone else all of whom I respect really know what you're doing. Otherwise you're going to put a big hurt on competitive TF2 for absolutely no reason at all besides shifting websites and putting out a lesser quality league initially. In a game that's 7 years old and already questionably in decline competitively it's a real fragile situation.
Do you really think if CEVO hadn't come about, that ESEA would be having these problems filling up their open division? I don't think so. If it's not broke don't fix it. That's my opinion. And I don't really like ESEA as a company I just enjoy the best competition. I don't like to work either. I have to go there though to make money unfortunately if I want to have nice things in life.
You say this as if it's within one person's power to change the outcome. ESEA disappearance's proximate cause is the lack of open teams registering this season. But what are the ultimate causes? It's a combination of factors that have been a long time in the works and the most accurate place of blame if you're looking for it is ESEA themselves. If they gave open teams a reason to register, then the open teams would've registered. ESEA let itself die by its inaction and lack of initiative in improving its league or accomodating its players. No one "let" anything happen.[/quote]
I like you Quin, you know I do. So i'll just lay it all out right here in one single ginormous question that everyone would love to know and please don't spare any details.
Question:
Do you really think in just a few days you will be able to offer a league that's an equal to ESEA AS IT IS RIGHT NOW, or do you think that will take a good amount of time? 4 competitive divisions, website functioning, servers, lans, etc.
My own personal question:
If the answer is no, which it has to be, then why have you guys been campaigning for months when you knew it would come to this? Not saying it's bad, if CEVO was 100% ready to provide something equal to what ESEA provides I wouldn't even be posting this right now. But clearly there's much to be done. So my own personal question is, since the malware is gone in ESEA, why do YOU think we need to change?
ESEA has been around for 16 seasons they shouldn't have to campaign for newer players like you guys did. They could always improve their system but they don't need an entire overhaul like CEVO does. Never before have I ever really seen ESEA on the forums campaigning for new members because everyone already knew that was our "premier" league. Obviously you guys joining forces with CEVO and making a big run for it publically when this has never happened before would split the community. So if this was your intention then I really hope you, Lange, and everyone else all of whom I respect really know what you're doing. Otherwise you're going to put a big hurt on competitive TF2 for absolutely no reason at all besides shifting websites and putting out a lesser quality league initially. In a game that's 7 years old and already questionably in decline competitively it's a real fragile situation.
Do you really think if CEVO hadn't come about, that ESEA would be having these problems filling up their open division? I don't think so. If it's not broke don't fix it. That's my opinion. And I don't really like ESEA as a company I just enjoy the best competition. I don't like to work either. I have to go there though to make money unfortunately if I want to have nice things in life.
After it's all said and done, these invite/main players(babies) wont have anywhere to go BUT CEVO so whine and complain all the fuck you want, if you ever want to play TF2 competitively looks like it's going to have to be CEVO, THE MAJORITY have spoken.
After it's all said and done, these invite/main players(babies) wont have anywhere to go BUT CEVO so whine and complain all the fuck you want, if you ever want to play TF2 competitively looks like it's going to have to be CEVO, THE MAJORITY have spoken.
pulpfixionAfter it's all said and done, these invite/main players(babies) wont have anywhere to go BUT CEVO so whine and complain all the fuck you want, if you ever want to play TF2 competitively looks like it's going to have to be CEVO, THE MAJORITY have spoken.
You realize when it's all said and done, you're going to quit the game before you even get good at it or before anyone knows who you are because you're never going to see what winning feels like in a league with only 2 divisions. Have fun! We warned you.
[quote=pulpfixion]After it's all said and done, these invite/main players(babies) wont have anywhere to go BUT CEVO so whine and complain all the fuck you want, if you ever want to play TF2 competitively looks like it's going to have to be CEVO, THE MAJORITY have spoken.[/quote]
You realize when it's all said and done, you're going to quit the game before you even get good at it or before anyone knows who you are because you're never going to see what winning feels like in a league with only 2 divisions. Have fun! We warned you.
You realize when it's all said and done, you're going to quit the game before you even get good at it or before anyone knows who you are because you're never going to see what winning feels like in a league with only 2 divisions. Have fun! We warned you.
keekerdc
If you can argue that x number of seasons of support is worthy of some measure of loyalty in return, you might also be able to argue that the Bitcoin fiasco, among a litany of other examples of blatant mismanagement over the years, might add up to a serious issue of trust for some players who aren't so invested in a LAN.
So figure something else out. Move to CEVO where it's cheaper for everyone and less cognitive dissonance for many. Relieve ESEA of their terrible mistake in picking this game up in the first place. Pick an existing LAN collectively where y'all can plant your flag once a year and go from there. It will be a couple steps back for a bit, but everyone won't feel so fleeced or be angry enough to kick off 700 post essay threads anymore.
sorry but you can't bring up esea's past since apparently esea supporters arent allowed to bring up cevo's shady ass past.
do you honestly think cevo is going to be cheaper than esea once/if there's cevo-a/im/m/p to support with a prize pot for each?
who's going to want to practice their dicks off to try and beat mixup or bannys team if theres a $500 prize pot at stake thats online so you can get fucked via ping/bad pc/ddos/people cheating?
[quote=keekerdc]
If you can argue that x number of seasons of support is worthy of some measure of loyalty in return, you might also be able to argue that the Bitcoin fiasco, among a litany of other examples of blatant mismanagement over the years, might add up to a serious issue of trust for some players who aren't so invested in a LAN.
So figure something else out. Move to CEVO where it's cheaper for everyone and less cognitive dissonance for many. Relieve ESEA of their terrible mistake in picking this game up in the first place. Pick an existing LAN collectively where y'all can plant your flag once a year and go from there. It will be a couple steps back for a bit, but everyone won't feel so fleeced or be angry enough to kick off 700 post essay threads anymore.[/quote]
sorry but you can't bring up esea's past since apparently esea supporters arent allowed to bring up cevo's shady ass past.
do you honestly think cevo is going to be cheaper than esea once/if there's cevo-a/im/m/p to support with a prize pot for each?
who's going to want to practice their dicks off to try and beat mixup or bannys team if theres a $500 prize pot at stake thats online so you can get fucked via ping/bad pc/ddos/people cheating?
If you can argue that x number of seasons of support is worthy of some measure of loyalty in return, you might also be able to argue that the Bitcoin fiasco, among a litany of other examples of blatant mismanagement over the years, might add up to a serious issue of trust for some players who aren't so invested in a LAN.
So figure something else out. Move to CEVO where it's cheaper for everyone and less cognitive dissonance for many. Relieve ESEA of their terrible mistake in picking this game up in the first place. Pick an existing LAN collectively where y'all can plant your flag once a year and go from there. It will be a couple steps back for a bit, but everyone won't feel so fleeced or be angry enough to kick off 700 post essay threads anymore.[/quote]
sorry but you can't bring up esea's past since apparently esea supporters arent allowed to bring up cevo's shady ass past.
do you honestly think cevo is going to be cheaper than esea once/if there's cevo-a/im/m/p to support with a prize pot for each?
who's going to want to practice their dicks off to try and beat mixup or bannys team if theres a $500 prize pot at stake thats online so you can get fucked via ping/bad pc/ddos/people cheating?
pulpfixionAfter it's all said and done, these invite/main players(babies) wont have anywhere to go BUT CEVO so whine and complain all the fuck you want, if you ever want to play TF2 competitively looks like it's going to have to be CEVO, THE MAJORITY have spoken.
Man are you in for a rude awakening when 80 percent of the games you've paid for are rolls. There's not going to be "competitive tf2", there's going to be pay-for pub stomping
[quote=pulpfixion]After it's all said and done, these invite/main players(babies) wont have anywhere to go BUT CEVO so whine and complain all the fuck you want, if you ever want to play TF2 competitively looks like it's going to have to be CEVO, THE MAJORITY have spoken.[/quote]
Man are you in for a rude awakening when 80 percent of the games you've paid for are rolls. There's not going to be "competitive tf2", there's going to be pay-for pub stomping
Man are you in for a rude awakening when 80 percent of the games you've paid for are rolls. There's not going to be "competitive tf2", there's going to be pay-for pub stomping
marmadukeGRYLLSninjanickI wish the drunk conversations about ESEA and CEVO during FITES were recorded. Where are eXtine and marmaduke to duke it out online as well. Yaoo?!?!
dude when i get drunk i get fucking HYPED over whatevers being debated. i feel like i was victorious.
It was a good debate and we shook hands like gentlemen at the end of it. Clock and marmaduke both brought up really good points about how items work in tf2 and made me think about things from a different angle.
We didn't talk esea too much, though it did come up briefly in the parking lot of carrabas.
A lot of people have been pretty passionately arguing on behalf of esea, but passion doesn't change people's minds. Esea could have gone a long way repairing their relationship in the community with an apologetic post from lpkane.
The other major point esea hasn't addressed, that has actually loomed over their heads the whole time, is what is the benefit of premium? There hasn't been any value to paying for it for members of the tf2 community since the beginning. It makes the financial calculation pretty easy, paying just a league fee is cheaper than paying a league fee and a premium fee which is worthless and needs to be cancelled in between seasons.
My flight out of nyc is boarding soon. I know tf.tv isn't sitting on the edge of their seats to hear my opinion, but I'll post a vlog about this I'm a few days.
[quote=marmadukeGRYLLS][quote=ninjanick]I wish the drunk conversations about ESEA and CEVO during FITES were recorded. Where are eXtine and marmaduke to duke it out online as well. Yaoo?!?![/quote]
dude when i get drunk i get fucking HYPED over whatevers being debated. i feel like i was victorious.[/quote]
It was a good debate and we shook hands like gentlemen at the end of it. Clock and marmaduke both brought up really good points about how items work in tf2 and made me think about things from a different angle.
We didn't talk esea too much, though it did come up briefly in the parking lot of carrabas.
A lot of people have been pretty passionately arguing on behalf of esea, but passion doesn't change people's minds. Esea could have gone a long way repairing their relationship in the community with an apologetic post from lpkane.
The other major point esea hasn't addressed, that has actually loomed over their heads the whole time, is what is the benefit of premium? There hasn't been any value to paying for it for members of the tf2 community since the beginning. It makes the financial calculation pretty easy, paying just a league fee is cheaper than paying a league fee and a premium fee which is worthless and needs to be cancelled in between seasons.
My flight out of nyc is boarding soon. I know tf.tv isn't sitting on the edge of their seats to hear my opinion, but I'll post a vlog about this I'm a few days.
dude when i get drunk i get fucking HYPED over whatevers being debated. i feel like i was victorious.[/quote]
It was a good debate and we shook hands like gentlemen at the end of it. Clock and marmaduke both brought up really good points about how items work in tf2 and made me think about things from a different angle.
We didn't talk esea too much, though it did come up briefly in the parking lot of carrabas.
A lot of people have been pretty passionately arguing on behalf of esea, but passion doesn't change people's minds. Esea could have gone a long way repairing their relationship in the community with an apologetic post from lpkane.
The other major point esea hasn't addressed, that has actually loomed over their heads the whole time, is what is the benefit of premium? There hasn't been any value to paying for it for members of the tf2 community since the beginning. It makes the financial calculation pretty easy, paying just a league fee is cheaper than paying a league fee and a premium fee which is worthless and needs to be cancelled in between seasons.
My flight out of nyc is boarding soon. I know tf.tv isn't sitting on the edge of their seats to hear my opinion, but I'll post a vlog about this I'm a few days.
This thread has been locked.