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Scatter School
posted in Videos
1
#1
0 Frags +

Hi, Boink and I are working on a video series aiming to help new scouts.
Shoutout to Foster for the name and Benk + Slin for letting me bounce ideas off of them.
Boink and I already have a couple of ideas in mind that we want to work on but if anyone has any ideas about making it better or ideas on videos feel free to comment below.

http://youtu.be/6z-DhjfZBKY

Youtube.com/user/forceboink

Hi, Boink and I are working on a video series aiming to help new scouts.
Shoutout to Foster for the name and Benk + Slin for letting me bounce ideas off of them.
Boink and I already have a couple of ideas in mind that we want to work on but if anyone has any ideas about making it better or ideas on videos feel free to comment below.

[youtube]http://youtu.be/6z-DhjfZBKY[/youtube]

Youtube.com/user/forceboink
2
#2
26 Frags +

Nice video kapoww but I think turning off the motion blur might be a good idea

Nice video kapoww but I think turning off the motion blur might be a good idea
3
#3
8 Frags +
StarzZNice video kapoww but I think turning off the motion blur might be a good idea

Yeah boink rendered them (thank you) and after I realized that we need to turn it off.
Sorry about that ^^ it'll be turned off for the 2nd

[quote=StarzZ]Nice video kapoww but I think turning off the motion blur might be a good idea[/quote]
Yeah boink rendered them (thank you) and after I realized that we need to turn it off.
Sorry about that ^^ it'll be turned off for the 2nd
4
#4
27 Frags +

This is a neat idea, but everything you just showed was just dependent on your raw dm abilities and I didn't really notice any "decision making" on your part. You just aimed and killed the guys, if anything it was just a frag video with you casting. Maybe if you went more in depth and talked about why/how you lost fights it would be a better learning experience.

This is a neat idea, but everything you just showed was just dependent on your raw dm abilities and I didn't really notice any "decision making" on your part. You just aimed and killed the guys, if anything it was just a frag video with you casting. Maybe if you went more in depth and talked about why/how you lost fights it would be a better learning experience.
5
#5
10 Frags +
clorgThis is a neat idea, but everything you just showed was just dependent on your raw dm abilities and I didn't really notice any "decision making" on your part. You just aimed and killed the guys, if anything it was just a frag video with you casting. Maybe if you went more in depth and talked about why/how you lost fights it would be a better learning experience.

I'm trying to avoid 10 min videos but if people would rather that, I could do it

Oh so one problem I face is finding clips. There are some where I play it well but come out with nothing to show for it but think the majority of players need to see kills for assurance. I'm trying to find a middle ground but I understand what you mean. I've mentored players that make good choices but don't come out with kills because of mediocre dm so they think they made the wrong choice.

[quote=clorg]This is a neat idea, but everything you just showed was just dependent on your raw dm abilities and I didn't really notice any "decision making" on your part. You just aimed and killed the guys, if anything it was just a frag video with you casting. Maybe if you went more in depth and talked about why/how you lost fights it would be a better learning experience.[/quote]

I'm trying to avoid 10 min videos but if people would rather that, I could do it

Oh so one problem I face is finding clips. There are some where I play it well but come out with nothing to show for it but think the majority of players need to see kills for assurance. I'm trying to find a middle ground but I understand what you mean. I've mentored players that make good choices but don't come out with kills because of mediocre dm so they think they made the wrong choice.
6
#6
0 Frags +

Great work. Hope to see more from you.

Great work. Hope to see more from you.
7
#7
4 Frags +
KapowwclorgThis is a neat idea, but everything you just showed was just dependent on your raw dm abilities and I didn't really notice any "decision making" on your part. You just aimed and killed the guys, if anything it was just a frag video with you casting. Maybe if you went more in depth and talked about why/how you lost fights it would be a better learning experience.
I'm trying to avoid 10 min videos but if people would rather that, I could do it

Oh so one problem I face is finding clips. There are some where I play it well but come out with nothing to show for it but think the majority of players need to see kills for assurance. I'm trying to find a middle ground but I understand what you mean. I've mentored players that make good choices but don't come out with kills because of mediocre dm so they think they made the wrong choice.

Alright, that's understandable. I really like this idea and I hope to learn something from it.

[quote=Kapoww][quote=clorg]This is a neat idea, but everything you just showed was just dependent on your raw dm abilities and I didn't really notice any "decision making" on your part. You just aimed and killed the guys, if anything it was just a frag video with you casting. Maybe if you went more in depth and talked about why/how you lost fights it would be a better learning experience.[/quote]

I'm trying to avoid 10 min videos but if people would rather that, I could do it

Oh so one problem I face is finding clips. There are some where I play it well but come out with nothing to show for it but think the majority of players need to see kills for assurance. I'm trying to find a middle ground but I understand what you mean. I've mentored players that make good choices but don't come out with kills because of mediocre dm so they think they made the wrong choice.[/quote]

Alright, that's understandable. I really like this idea and I hope to learn something from it.
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#8
0 Frags +

This is nice insight into the decisions you make during midfights, but you dont really offer up why you make those decisions. I expected to see something more general, rather than talking about each specific situation.

This is nice insight into the decisions you make during midfights, but you dont really offer up why you make those decisions. I expected to see something more general, rather than talking about each specific situation.
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#9
5 Frags +

I would suggest structuring it similarly to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0AWckXg4w8

Keep in mind there's nothing wrong with long videos as long as the extra time is not redundant.
People will watch if they're willing to learn and all of the video time is useful.

I would suggest structuring it similarly to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0AWckXg4w8

Keep in mind there's nothing wrong with long videos as long as the extra time is not redundant.
People will watch if they're willing to learn and all of the video time is useful.
10
#10
4 Frags +
RadmanThis is nice insight into the decisions you make during midfights, but you dont really offer up why you make those decisions. I expected to see something more general, rather than talking about each specific situation.

Sure he does. In some examples on the first midfight:

"I still have a scout in and their medic is still on point so I move in to fight this."

"Our scout moves under so I circle around the right."

Some things have to be inferred. In the first example it can be inferred that he wants to fight with his teammate who is still in, and the med still being on the point means he's within killable range. In the second you can infer that he doesn't want to push the same way as his teammate to split up the enemy's focus. Since his teammate is already going under kapoww picks a different path.

This game plays too fast to be able to outline the reasons for everything you do without playing the clips at 25% speed or something. Watch the video more than once and use some critical thinking skills the second time around. It's only two minutes long.

ps thanks for the shoutout Bryan. Looking forward to seeing more videos.

[quote=Radman]This is nice insight into the decisions you make during midfights, but you dont really offer up why you make those decisions. I expected to see something more general, rather than talking about each specific situation.[/quote]

Sure he does. In some examples on the first midfight:

"I still have a scout in and their medic is still on point so I move in to fight this."

"Our scout moves under so I circle around the right."

Some things have to be inferred. In the first example it can be inferred that he wants to fight with his teammate who is still in, and the med still being on the point means he's within killable range. In the second you can infer that he doesn't want to push the same way as his teammate to split up the enemy's focus. Since his teammate is already going under kapoww picks a different path.

This game plays too fast to be able to outline the reasons for everything you do without playing the clips at 25% speed or something. Watch the video more than once and use some critical thinking skills the second time around. It's only two minutes long.

ps thanks for the shoutout Bryan. Looking forward to seeing more videos.
11
#11
6 Frags +

I agree with Benk. I thought the video was pretty good at explaining the decisions and I think its cool that your going to make resources like this.

I guess one thing you could try would be to pause the video periodically. I've been watching some of youmustmike's demo reviews and I really like how he will just take the time to pause mid fight to fully explain why he likes or dislikes certain things going on.
I understand that might change how boink & you create the videos, but it would give you more time to explain a 30 second clip.

I agree with Benk. I thought the video was pretty good at explaining the decisions and I think its cool that your going to make resources like this.

I guess one thing you could try would be to pause the video periodically. I've been watching some of youmustmike's demo reviews and I really like how he will just take the time to pause mid fight to fully explain why he likes or dislikes certain things going on.
I understand that might change how boink & you create the videos, but it would give you more time to explain a 30 second clip.
12
#12
8 Frags +

Kind of reminds me of the old MGE scout videos that clockwork/yz50 did, which is good and bad. There's a few things to be learned from this video, but for the most part it's just you saying a play-by-play of what you did.

For example, it'd be more helpful to say where you're positioned and why rather than "a soldier jumped us on the right so I killed him."

EDIT: This post came off too negative. I like the idea a lot I just think it would be better with pauses and explanations for what you're doing.

Kind of reminds me of the old MGE scout videos that clockwork/yz50 did, which is good and bad. There's a few things to be learned from this video, but for the most part it's just you saying a play-by-play of what you did.

For example, it'd be more helpful to say where you're positioned and why rather than "a soldier jumped us on the right so I killed him."

EDIT: This post came off too negative. I like the idea a lot I just think it would be better with pauses and explanations for what you're doing.
13
#13
2 Frags +

Just slowing the clip down to get the time to explain things a bit more would be nice imo. Thanks for doing this.

Just slowing the clip down to get the time to explain things a bit more would be nice imo. Thanks for doing this.
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#14
3 Frags +

I'm so proud of you Bryan

I'm so proud of you Bryan
15
#15
6 Frags +
Kapowwworking on a video series aiming to help new scouts.

I can't tell if that was intentional or not

[quote=Kapoww]working on a video series [b]aiming[/b] to help new scouts.
[/quote]
I can't tell if that was intentional or not
16
#16
7 Frags +
BenkSome things have to be inferred. In the first example it can be inferred that he wants to fight with his teammate who is still in, and the med still being on the point means he's within killable range. In the second you can infer that he doesn't want to push the same way as his teammate to split up the enemy's focus. Since his teammate is already going under kapoww picks a different path.

This game plays too fast to be able to outline the reasons for everything you do without playing the clips at 25% speed or something. Watch the video more than once and use some critical thinking skills the second time around. It's only two minutes long.

When you are trying to teach people decision making you should not expect them to already know enough to infer why you made those decisions.

[quote=Benk]Some things have to be inferred. In the first example it can be inferred that he wants to fight with his teammate who is still in, and the med still being on the point means he's within killable range. In the second you can infer that he doesn't want to push the same way as his teammate to split up the enemy's focus. Since his teammate is already going under kapoww picks a different path.

This game plays too fast to be able to outline the reasons for everything you do without playing the clips at 25% speed or something. Watch the video more than once and use some critical thinking skills the second time around. It's only two minutes long.[/quote]

When you are trying to teach people decision making you should not expect them to already know enough to infer why you made those decisions.
17
#17
1 Frags +

I like longer more informative videos, maybe you can tell us why you decided to take fights/didn't take them and aiming tips or something

I like longer more informative videos, maybe you can tell us why you decided to take fights/didn't take them and aiming tips or something
18
#18
1 Frags +

not enough motion blur

not enough motion blur
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#19
13 Frags +

Because of Kapoww's scout guidance, I lost 10 pounds in 10 days!

Thanks, Scatter School!

Because of Kapoww's scout guidance, I lost 10 pounds in 10 days!

Thanks, Scatter School!
20
#20
3 Frags +

I'm excited for this, and I don't play scout.
Kapoww is one of the most positive people in this community

I'm excited for this, and I don't play scout.
Kapoww is one of the most positive people in this community
21
#21
14 Frags +

Ok so I see that a lot of people want me go further in depth about decision making. It's not really where I was wanting to take the series but I will do some self demo reviews of a whole scrim / match and pause around and break it down to the basics. Kind of like a side branch of the series.

Ok so I see that a lot of people want me go further in depth about decision making. It's not really where I was wanting to take the series but I will do some self demo reviews of a whole scrim / match and pause around and break it down to the basics. Kind of like a side branch of the series.
22
#22
4 Frags +

what a kind soul

what a kind soul
23
#23
1 Frags +
KapowwOk so I see that a lot of people want me go further in depth about decision making. It's not really where I was wanting to take the series but I will do some self demo reviews of a whole scrim / match and pause around and break it down to the basics. Kind of like a side branch of the series.

I'd honestly prefer watching high level scouts explain things on their average mid rather than seeing them go huge with some commentary to it.
There's a lot more to be learned from watching high level scouts explain how they tackle problems they run into.

While huge plays are entertaining to watch they don't really have much you can learn from unless you plan on going huge literally every time you get into combat.

[quote=Kapoww]Ok so I see that a lot of people want me go further in depth about decision making. It's not really where I was wanting to take the series but I will do some self demo reviews of a whole scrim / match and pause around and break it down to the basics. Kind of like a side branch of the series.[/quote]
I'd honestly prefer watching high level scouts explain things on their average mid rather than seeing them go huge with some commentary to it.
There's a lot more to be learned from watching high level scouts explain how they tackle problems they run into.

While huge plays are entertaining to watch they don't really have much you can learn from unless you plan on going huge literally every time you get into combat.
24
#24
0 Frags +
KapowwclorgThis is a neat idea, but everything you just showed was just dependent on your raw dm abilities and I didn't really notice any "decision making" on your part. You just aimed and killed the guys, if anything it was just a frag video with you casting. Maybe if you went more in depth and talked about why/how you lost fights it would be a better learning experience.
I'm trying to avoid 10 min videos but if people would rather that, I could do it

Oh so one problem I face is finding clips. There are some where I play it well but come out with nothing to show for it but think the majority of players need to see kills for assurance. I'm trying to find a middle ground but I understand what you mean. I've mentored players that make good choices but don't come out with kills because of mediocre dm so they think they made the wrong choice.

Shouldn't that be part of your advice? Play to your DM ability, if you died because of mediocre DM then you made the wrong decision.

[quote=Kapoww][quote=clorg]This is a neat idea, but everything you just showed was just dependent on your raw dm abilities and I didn't really notice any "decision making" on your part. You just aimed and killed the guys, if anything it was just a frag video with you casting. Maybe if you went more in depth and talked about why/how you lost fights it would be a better learning experience.[/quote]

I'm trying to avoid 10 min videos but if people would rather that, I could do it

Oh so one problem I face is finding clips. There are some where I play it well but come out with nothing to show for it but think the majority of players need to see kills for assurance. I'm trying to find a middle ground but I understand what you mean. I've mentored players that make good choices but don't come out with kills because of mediocre dm so they think they made the wrong choice.[/quote]

Shouldn't that be part of your advice? Play to your DM ability, if you died because of mediocre DM then you made the wrong decision.
25
#25
5 Frags +
vanillaKapowwclorgThis is a neat idea, but everything you just showed was just dependent on your raw dm abilities and I didn't really notice any "decision making" on your part. You just aimed and killed the guys, if anything it was just a frag video with you casting. Maybe if you went more in depth and talked about why/how you lost fights it would be a better learning experience.
I'm trying to avoid 10 min videos but if people would rather that, I could do it

Oh so one problem I face is finding clips. There are some where I play it well but come out with nothing to show for it but think the majority of players need to see kills for assurance. I'm trying to find a middle ground but I understand what you mean. I've mentored players that make good choices but don't come out with kills because of mediocre dm so they think they made the wrong choice.

Shouldn't that be part of your advice? Play to your DM ability, if you died because of mediocre DM then you made the wrong decision.

How can you say that? 99+% players will make a decision to, lets say, kill the other team's medic. Goes behind, misses a bunch of shots for whatever reason. Just because it didn't work out doesn't mean it was necessarily the wrong decision - they just failed the execution.

In some cases, yes, you can attribute you making a decision to your skill in executing said decision. HOWEVER, making a decision to do something out of your comfort zone is what helps make you a better player.

[quote=vanilla][quote=Kapoww][quote=clorg]This is a neat idea, but everything you just showed was just dependent on your raw dm abilities and I didn't really notice any "decision making" on your part. You just aimed and killed the guys, if anything it was just a frag video with you casting. Maybe if you went more in depth and talked about why/how you lost fights it would be a better learning experience.[/quote]

I'm trying to avoid 10 min videos but if people would rather that, I could do it

Oh so one problem I face is finding clips. There are some where I play it well but come out with nothing to show for it but think the majority of players need to see kills for assurance. I'm trying to find a middle ground but I understand what you mean. I've mentored players that make good choices but don't come out with kills because of mediocre dm so they think they made the wrong choice.[/quote]

Shouldn't that be part of your advice? Play to your DM ability, if you died because of mediocre DM then you made the wrong decision.[/quote]

How can you say that? 99+% players will make a decision to, lets say, kill the other team's medic. Goes behind, misses a bunch of shots for whatever reason. Just because it didn't work out doesn't mean it was necessarily the wrong decision - they just failed the execution.

In some cases, yes, you can attribute you making a decision to your skill in executing said decision. HOWEVER, making a decision to do something out of your comfort zone is what helps make you a better player.
26
#26
2 Frags +
yuki
How can you say that? 99+% players will make a decision to, lets say, kill the other team's medic. Goes behind, misses a bunch of shots for whatever reason. Just because it didn't work out doesn't mean it was necessarily the wrong decision - they just failed the execution.

In some cases, yes, you can attribute you making a decision to your skill in executing said decision. HOWEVER, making a decision to do something out of your comfort zone is what helps make you a better player.

Fair point. I guess in my head, when I'm going to try something out of my comfort zone like that, I say to myself "I don't know if this is a good decisions, but I'm going to see if it works." Which, to me, is different from saying "it was the right decision, I'm just not good enough to have successfully pulled it off".

I think what I'm trying to say is that players should be able to distinguish between rationalizing a result with "I made the correct decision, I just didn't execute it properly" and "I made the right decision, I just don't have the DM/skill to backup what I tried to do". It'd be like a scout managing to get in and have a few shots on the medic, but missed them (using the former to rationalize why it went wrong) and a scout that tried to walk into a 2v1 or something (and saying "if I had just hit more shots I would've won that fight). In that last case, it might've been the right decision for someone like clockwork, but for someone else (like me), it'd be the wrong one.

I just got the impressions from Kapoww's comment that you shouldn't base your decisions off of your DM, because you should absolutely factor that into any of your decision making.

[quote=yuki]

How can you say that? 99+% players will make a decision to, lets say, kill the other team's medic. Goes behind, misses a bunch of shots for whatever reason. Just because it didn't work out doesn't mean it was necessarily the wrong decision - they just failed the execution.

In some cases, yes, you can attribute you making a decision to your skill in executing said decision. HOWEVER, making a decision to do something out of your comfort zone is what helps make you a better player.[/quote]

Fair point. I guess in my head, when I'm going to try something out of my comfort zone like that, I say to myself "I don't know if this is a good decisions, but I'm going to see if it works." Which, to me, is different from saying "it was the right decision, I'm just not good enough to have successfully pulled it off".

I think what I'm trying to say is that players should be able to distinguish between rationalizing a result with "I made the correct decision, I just didn't execute it properly" and "I made the right decision, I just don't have the DM/skill to backup what I tried to do". It'd be like a scout managing to get in and have a few shots on the medic, but missed them (using the former to rationalize why it went wrong) and a scout that tried to walk into a 2v1 or something (and saying "if I had just hit more shots I would've won that fight). In that last case, it might've been the right decision for someone like clockwork, but for someone else (like me), it'd be the wrong one.

I just got the impressions from Kapoww's comment that you shouldn't base your decisions off of your DM, because you should absolutely factor that into any of your decision making.
27
#27
1 Frags +

One thing I like seeing in demo reviews is when people look at the plays/mids that go wrong, and explain why things went wrong and why it was a bad decision. It just seems to stick in my head more.

I understand your point of people wanting to see the results of good decisions making tho, maybe a mix of both? just my 2cents

One thing I like seeing in demo reviews is when people look at the plays/mids that go wrong, and explain why things went wrong and why it was a bad decision. It just seems to stick in my head more.

I understand your point of people wanting to see the results of good decisions making tho, maybe a mix of both? just my 2cents
28
#28
-1 Frags +

I think it's great that it was kinda fast, you cant aply everything you learned in a 20 min video, but slow downs and A LITTLE bit of explaination could help those who are struggling with making choices.

I think it's great that it was kinda fast, you cant aply everything you learned in a 20 min video, but slow downs and A LITTLE bit of explaination could help those who are struggling with making choices.
29
#29
1 Frags +

Is school still in session?

Is school still in session?
30
#30
2 Frags +
-Mike-Is school still in session?

Hi I'm trying to get demos in. But I'll try to crank out a self demo review that's really broken down in the next couple of days. Umm you can tune into my stream for scrims if you're bored.

[quote=-Mike-]Is school still in session?[/quote]
Hi I'm trying to get demos in. But I'll try to crank out a self demo review that's really broken down in the next couple of days. Umm you can tune into my stream for scrims if you're bored.
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