It'd be neat if someone with a pub server put this up.

edit: and of course one of the few posts i skip has an ip

The flank has excessive potential on this map at the moment. I believe at least two routes/doorways need to be removed, and the proposals I'm suggesting basically just remove redundant access to paths anyway.

Remove the lower entrance to house facing mid. I'm suggesting this so it's not as simple as walking right into house, you actually need to jump from the rock to the upper mid entrance. Edit: I think the lower entrance to the right in this image also needs to be closed off. If the team facing mid wants to get into house, they can use the ramp. If they want to get safely into the house and avoid sniper lines, they can wrap around and go into the back entrance of the house.

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/47604646980078895/9845A8464145A0512F7C9382A40B8BE46C7FE713/

In my opinion this doorway between battlements and sandstone tunnel is too much. It favors forward holds and flanking classes a bit too much. Flanks can run further back down the sandstone tunnel to get to the same spot, but with increased risk/difficulty. Edit: It might be interesting if this side was obstructed by something, either rubble, or wooden fence or something, so snipers in house could still get a pick on a flank class.

Edit: this change, combined with the addition of an ammo pack at the entrance of sandstone tunnel, will make this longer route attractive to flank classes. I feel like the increased risk will make the meta of the map more fun/interesting.

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/47604646980149642/10F7F0E8F483B109E7830E5F627A2A0651CBCFF3/

Here are three soldier camping spots that should probably be removed:

At spawn:

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/47604646981491500/DEE9C3F7364E963FD29C31682F03C4B8EEF3E423/

At the upper spawn battlements area:

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/47604646981493575/A092D29BE5E0E5496B7BCB2D82EDA105540F3259/

And at mid above the caves:

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/47604646981492637/DD6EF7A6AD56D70E6D0D22A159E3E73C27C2086A/

I'm not sure what the intended purpose of this extended spawn area is, but it prevents spys from taking teleporters/sapping buildings within it. I suggest either allowing opposing players to enter this area, or remove the ability to build here:

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/47604646981494326/DFB81F570126AC402D0CEA51D6C9EDA4DC141EF4/

There's an area in spawn you can build in as engineer. I've outlined the area with my buildings.

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/47604646982012053/5DD9E83E73CF837D9B91FBB8C466F8AC967EE0C5/

It was proposed to me by an engy who played the map, that you allow engineers to build on the crates.

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/47604646982481592/CDD807A3DB7AEBC62523D6F7815619D912EDBB91/

I'd like to hear other people's opinions on this though. Especially since you can already build between the crack of the crates:

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/47604646982478551/E5DBB6A0DEB15EF29B7349731E24093AB1FB3E06/

Okay, last post for a while. There is a spot on red side at mid where you can get stuck. It's a cp_gravelpit-spawn-like spot, where you can jump between two surfaces, but the elevation is slightly lower inside the spot, so you can't jump back out. You get stuck between this tree and this rock:

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/47604646982649982/3A736CCD676997817B68D9AFB6031F6C9041D4FD/

The difference with building between them and building on top of them is, building on top of them gives a prime place to put minisentries that will be very hard to hit with rockets. There's nowhere to aim for splash damage, and you need to aim directly at them from a distance or slightly to the side at close range (yes, rockets have a directional thing like the pyro airblast, but it only works at long range).

Basically, it would be really annoying for 6s. It should at least be difficult to put buildings up there, but I'm under the impression you can do it in a single easy jump from cover?

All of this feedback is really exciting, the next version is going to be amazing for you guys, but sit tight because it's going to take some time.

So, I managed to grab an a few hours of spare time, and decided to work a bit on B4.
So far i've added in the major changes, to help improve ammo and health placement and flanks along with other smaller changes to sightlines.

Here is an imgur album of all the changes, I wont spam my thread with images, each image was taken in the editor so there is no lighting and stuff. A lot of this is placeholder as I intend to remake the map for b5 (due to technical problems on my end, the layout should be the same though)

The latest version should be up in a day or two

Smaller changes I didn't note:
-Spawnrooms should have no build, I didn't test it though but I did everything right.
-Spawnroom blocks are now only on the doors
-Moved the tree slightly
-Various other bug fixes
Question, what are everyone's thoughts on me turning the cave on the side into a building? Will this mess up people calling out and stuff, since it's unique?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/v6g7c9m4vwjbl3l/koth_sandstone_pro_b4.bsp
B4 of koth_sandstone is here, this is more of a "placeholder" version as there are dozens of visual bugs that my remake should hopefully fix. b5 is going to be awesome.

Happy playing!

Great stuff! Love the changes. Maybe we can get a play test or two goin' this week, and see what people think.

Here is the highly anticipated B5, this is mostly an internal change-up that's going to streamline everything but there are also some pretty cool changes to the aesthetics to check out

http://puu.sh/bgMCE/2e46062aed.png

Changes include:
~Major update to health and ammo
~Structures have been recreated, some changes might have occured
~"House" has had 3 routes blocked off, and is dimmer in a section
~Blocked off some giant sightliens with chicken-fence
~Clipping is fixed
~Major aestethic update (Including all torches being exactly the same now, and an updated skybox)

Known bugs:
~Optimisation is a lot worse, the map may not run well on some machines especially at high player count, this is the primary focus of b6

If you guys are willing to overcome the optimization issues give it a playtest! I'd love to see what everyone thinks of all the new changes

Here is the download

Let me start off by saying, the map looks wonderful, we need more good koth maps, and quite frankly, we don't have too many, so I decided to hop on a local server and give this map a go, trying out the map a bit.

You can open the enemy spawn room, also the 'BLOCKED' signs are outside the spawn door, instead of behind the spawn door:

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/568898774538381923/CA147B99A109AAE5CFF8B7EE07BE515A21FFDEF2/

Example of a blocked sign on an official map:

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/589161283254227897/37507C6EE22A014D65DBF76D21CAE1A0FCD7A178/

A weird 'see-through' bug that I'm sure isn't supposed to be there, also the place where I'm standing on, probably shouldn't be able to stand on:

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/568898774538385051/4F0DC6B1C1EE0DDCBE7988CC2BC61572D839835C/

Don't see the point of this height advantage that promotes roaming soldiers standing on it trying to hide/get an easy bomb on the enemy medic:

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/568898774538387056/6D768E2A81A7226971ADBAA6847022FCCC7BECAE/

Another spot you can stand on, and probably shouldn't, if you walk left you can spam the enemy spawn really easily:

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/568898774538391787/23C6586EC2022418C85C38D5281CCAA93B1B7298/

And another one where you can hide on right above enemy spawn:

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/568898774538410184/51B1E15AE889E49E2F0100176D5D10F0C9F8F15F/

Another spot you can hide on, and you probably shouldn't be able to:

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/568898774538389293/71D62893F3E52CCDFA77F00D3C3DBEC11EAD6E09/

Two Sniper sightlines that you would probably need to play around with the spawn doors a bit more to get them just right, you're giving the team that has the point captured a some big sightlines that allow them to know where the enemy team is going to push them from, unlike maps like viaduct and coalplant where you would have to get into enemy territory (in coalplant the lobby area or far left, on viaduct you would have to hold quite close in order to know where are they pushing from), sandstone allows the team holding the point to know from where the other team is pushing by just holding on the point with having eyes on left and right.

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/568898774538399159/E14306D90C2A724C5DF6A71C11639D3DAA492FE9/

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/568898774538397275/B56E6D9BCE008BBC704F78AB68AFA68A2A84AD30/

A couple more spam angles that should be fixed:

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/568898774538393662/F3F15B9BF106B4310C93EEB11F3359AC908218F7/

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/568898774538395314/5E1DC27FD19133039FF1C1BA066E23DCB2A11595/

The capture point is quite large and probably should be adjusted so only ones who actually stand on the stone part of it can cap it:

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/568898774538400996/B92D80B266AF5245EA90B123104FB94A8245647A/

You can also cap while standing on the fire stand on point for some reason:

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/568898774538404018/F3E83289A4771954D69F482D75774B00AAB63730/

These stickies can kill the ones behind the net, which is kinda silly and not sure if intended:

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/568898774538406364/ACA6257C4ACFAB47ECF7D91B675F369C8C9229BB/

Weird texture bug, not sure if its from my end:

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/568898774538408356/129DE7B8E3EC6A4F0E3B92356BAE64F31CE607BC/

And this to showcase how lit is the map, which is really bright:

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/568898774538412293/A73E23C4C654FDA98F960B89A3FAF0FE44792E8A/

And that's all, I'm sorry for the wall of pics but I think this was needed in order to improve the map, gotta say, I can see this map work but it needs some more playtesting and fixing, so keep up the good work dude, really loving the style of it.

@ spawn doors:
Stock maps aren't consistent about whether the blocker is in front or behind the door. Gullywash is a community map, btw, so it's not like "how do thing".

Map has been updated to b6!
This fixes all the bugs that are displayed above, except the sniper sightline as that is both impossible to fix and impossible to get to!

This includes:

-Optimisation, the map runs as well as Viaduct now
-Fade distances are now included
-Made fences no longer possible to kill those on the other side with a sticky bomb
-Also changed the fence's texture
-Capture point zone trigger is lower, no more standing on pillars to cap
-Stairs are a lot sharper

Known bugs:

-Some skybox elements fade too early, doesn't affect gameplay AT ALL

Download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pm88abyeudfrkjd/koth_sandstone_pro_b6.bsp.bz2?dl=0

Have fun out there, be sure to send feedback

http://puu.sh/bielh/707bd2b586.png

I've been updating sandstone finally today since my other map is finally public (this map) and i've enjoyed the changes so far, however I lost my feedback notes, so if I missed anything major please comment just small notes it'll jolt my memory. (These are still untextured as well)
I posted a imgur album with the changes. The lighting will be off since it's a fast compile.
Here is the album

====NEW RELEASE=====

We're finally in b7c for the Pro version! This has a ton of changes, and i'm not exaggerating, many of these changes should change how the map fundamentally flows.
The changes were mostly added to get this going for 6v6's which is this map's primary target.

Here's a picture to prove it:

http://i.imgur.com/MAA22gj.jpg

Happy Playing!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9650y2wdq4uql3p/koth_sandstone_pro_b7c.bsp?dl=0

looks promising as hell, can't wait to test this out.
edit: i uploaded the map to serveme.tf so anyone who reserves a server can easily put the map on the current version and test it on tf2center or wherever, the guy needs your feedback, this map is looking very promising, as imo we don't have enough koth maps in 6's

Here is the changelog:
It's in imgur album form to help show the changes themselves

super hyped for a new 6s koth map, especially one which doesn't seem as chaotic and open as via

HYPE!

Here is b8, a small update to fix some of the more prominent problems, a lot more changes are coming soon to help with demoman spam and the map feeling closed.

Here they are:

Upgraded mini-health in cave to medium health
Made barrier near balcony twice as high
Made balcony easier to jump onto
Added new path into houes
Blocked the balcony close to spawn off

Download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/b72m6d7xx7qo6al/koth_sandstone_pro_b8.bsp.bz2?dl=0

Patch forecast:
Turn the double mini health packs into a singular medium depending on soldier spam
More permanent solution to demoman spam
Make the map feel more open, a common complaint is that it's too cluttered
Help move-ability towards flanks
Update the ramps for sliding improvements
Make the caves more like-a-ble

Other than that as much feedback as possible! Also if you wanna play it be sure to check out tf2pickup.net's 6v6 section and request for the map.

Looks awesome! I can't wait to play :D

Updated on TF2Pickup.net

It's pretty easy and annoying to get caught on these things when surfing up the ramp.

http://i.imgur.com/IihTuq0.jpg

Really like playing scout or roamer on it because there's so many flanks to abuse, don't imagine it's much fun for medics though.

We'll be testing this in some Highlander PUGs tomorrow night. I'll edit this post with my thoughts afterwards, though we did find some bugs from looking around the map a bit.

There's a spot on BLU side on the bridge that you can hide on, but there's no equivalent spot on RED side.

Other things of note

http://puu.sh/bNT2U/eab06e8c76.jpg

http://puu.sh/bNT3V/462b2d50e2.jpg

These are only on red side.

http://puu.sh/bNTc8/d0724b02b0.jpg

And apparently, you can get totally stuck here and be forced to kill bind to get out.

EDIT:

http://puu.sh/bNTsB/6c3979c50e.jpg

Also, this is just not on the ground on both sides for whatever reason.

Patch incoming tonight:(roughly 5 hours)

-Updating torch's colors to look like the light they emit
-Updated the standing torchs to have fire
-Updating shrine to look like the light they emit
-Updated clipping on the bridge
-Removed stairs from both balcony's
-Fixed hills being broken
-Fixed wood barrier floating
-Fixed people being able to stand on truss and not be able to move
-Fixed textures in red/blu house
-Removed beams on ramps making players unable to slide

This will be b8b since it's only bug fixes and adds nothing to gameplay, have fun!

Here is b8b: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fvwubdvwp60t6ir/koth_sandstone_pro_b8b.bsp.bz2?dl=0

B8c will be out momentarily to fix a lighting issue and a floating ladder

B8c here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e9rb4qi9brir1mf/koth_sandstone_pro_b8c.bsp.bz2?dl=0

Fixes:
Floating ladder
Lightmaps for below balcony, I thought it'd fix the slight lighting problem but it didin't, will fix in next update!