kirbyI really wish we had a dedicated map maker (or more than one would work) that fixed a lot of older maps. So much lost potential.
ummm the problem is not if you can get a mapper, but if the mapper can get decent feedback.
Bring back cp_yukon for ESEA s18!
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TF2 General Discussion
[quote=kirby]I really wish we had a dedicated map maker (or more than one would work) that fixed a lot of older maps. So much lost potential.[/quote]
ummm the problem is not if you can get a mapper, but if the mapper can get decent feedback.
ummm the problem is not if you can get a mapper, but if the mapper can get decent feedback.
Do new maps and existing edits of older maps not get decent feedback already?
Do new maps and existing edits of older maps not get decent feedback already?
kirbyDo new maps and existing edits of older maps not get decent feedback already?
getting them some solid playtime is an issue most of the time
[quote=kirby]Do new maps and existing edits of older maps not get decent feedback already?[/quote]
getting them some solid playtime is an issue most of the time
getting them some solid playtime is an issue most of the time
The main problem that was going on when stalin was running new map pugs is that it was hard to get people that actually wanted to test new maps. Sure we could get 12 in a server but they'd either just fuck around the entire pug or they just never gave any actual feedback and kept asking if we could play the "good" maps instead (which at the time was sunshine). Imo if people want to get GOOD NEW maps into the rotation there needs to be a group of higher level players... like IM+ at least taking a few hours out of their nights on pug.na or whatever to just play some new maps and give actual feedback to the map makers. This would also help with the problem of people just voting in whatever without actually knowing what the map is like at all.
The main problem that was going on when stalin was running new map pugs is that it was hard to get people that actually wanted to test new maps. Sure we could get 12 in a server but they'd either just fuck around the entire pug or they just never gave any actual feedback and kept asking if we could play the "good" maps instead (which at the time was sunshine). Imo if people want to get GOOD NEW maps into the rotation there needs to be a group of higher level players... like IM+ at least taking a few hours out of their nights on pug.na or whatever to just play some new maps and give actual feedback to the map makers. This would also help with the problem of people just voting in whatever without actually knowing what the map is like at all.
MunchThe main problem that was going on when stalin was running new map pugs is that it was hard to get people that actually wanted to test new maps. Sure we could get 12 in a server but they'd either just fuck around the entire pug or they just never gave any actual feedback and kept asking if we could play the "good" maps instead (which at the time was sunshine). Imo if people want to get GOOD NEW maps into the rotation there needs to be a group of higher level players... like IM+ at least taking a few hours out of their nights on pug.na or whatever to just play some new maps and give actual feedback to the map makers. This would also help with the problem of people just voting in whatever without actually knowing what the map is like at all.
someone needs to start an OLD MAP PUGS group
week 1: yukon, waste, freight, mainline, prolane, junction, broma
lets go
[quote=Munch]The main problem that was going on when stalin was running new map pugs is that it was hard to get people that actually wanted to test new maps. Sure we could get 12 in a server but they'd either just fuck around the entire pug or they just never gave any actual feedback and kept asking if we could play the "good" maps instead (which at the time was sunshine). Imo if people want to get GOOD NEW maps into the rotation there needs to be a group of higher level players... like IM+ at least taking a few hours out of their nights on pug.na or whatever to just play some new maps and give actual feedback to the map makers. This would also help with the problem of people just voting in whatever without actually knowing what the map is like at all.[/quote]
someone needs to start an OLD MAP PUGS group
week 1: yukon, waste, freight, mainline, prolane, junction, broma
lets go
someone needs to start an OLD MAP PUGS group
week 1: yukon, waste, freight, mainline, prolane, junction, broma
lets go
MunchThe main problem that was going on when stalin was running new map pugs is that it was hard to get people that actually wanted to test new maps. Sure we could get 12 in a server but they'd either just fuck around the entire pug or they just never gave any actual feedback and kept asking if we could play the "good" maps instead (which at the time was sunshine). Imo if people want to get GOOD NEW maps into the rotation there needs to be a group of higher level players... like IM+ at least taking a few hours out of their nights on pug.na or whatever to just play some new maps and give actual feedback to the map makers. This would also help with the problem of people just voting in whatever without actually knowing what the map is like at all.
I feel like a big part of whether people wanted to play a map was if it looked and played fun the first time around. Sunshine a1 was simple and had a lot of good ideas in it. Process a1 has a lot of the cool qualities that the final version has. It's not fun to play an incredibly broken and underdeveloped map and give feedback as to how it could be made in the first place. Otherwise we get another gullywash.
It really helps a map succeed and make people want to test it if there's some semblance of thoughtful design put into the map geometry in a1. In the past year, the only maps on this forum I can think of that showed this kind of determination are koth_grizzly, cp_craneway, cp_convolve, and of course cp_sunshine.
[quote=Munch]The main problem that was going on when stalin was running new map pugs is that it was hard to get people that actually wanted to test new maps. Sure we could get 12 in a server but they'd either just fuck around the entire pug or they just never gave any actual feedback and kept asking if we could play the "good" maps instead (which at the time was sunshine). Imo if people want to get GOOD NEW maps into the rotation there needs to be a group of higher level players... like IM+ at least taking a few hours out of their nights on pug.na or whatever to just play some new maps and give actual feedback to the map makers. This would also help with the problem of people just voting in whatever without actually knowing what the map is like at all.[/quote]
I feel like a big part of whether people wanted to play a map was if it looked and played fun the first time around. Sunshine a1 was simple and had a lot of good ideas in it. Process a1 has a lot of the cool qualities that the final version has. It's not fun to play an incredibly broken and underdeveloped map and give feedback as to how it could be made in the first place. Otherwise we get another gullywash.
It really helps a map succeed and make people want to test it if there's some semblance of thoughtful design put into the map geometry in a1. In the past year, the only maps on this forum I can think of that showed this kind of determination are koth_grizzly, cp_craneway, cp_convolve, and of course cp_sunshine.
I feel like a big part of whether people wanted to play a map was if it looked and played fun the first time around. Sunshine a1 was simple and had a lot of good ideas in it. Process a1 has a lot of the cool qualities that the final version has. It's not fun to play an incredibly broken and underdeveloped map and give feedback as to how it could be made in the first place. Otherwise we get another gullywash.
It really helps a map succeed and make people want to test it if there's some semblance of thoughtful design put into the map geometry in a1. In the past year, the only maps on this forum I can think of that showed this kind of determination are koth_grizzly, cp_craneway, cp_convolve, and of course cp_sunshine.
4812622I think there's this attitude among mappers where you have to have the original creator's permission to change their map
And the maker of yukon is mia
Source: haven't touched hammer but teammate loved to rant about mapping
as long as it's an official map it doesn't really matter except for awkward social reasons, valve owns them intellectually speaking and they explicitly let people mod their stuff
that said: aside from bad clipping, anybody have any specific changes for yukon? i'm willing to make adjustments for testing like I said but I need some specific ideas
second note: according to phi and hyce and others, comp players are actually really good at leaving good feedback for 5cp maps compared to other groups like tf2maps.net. the last feedback i got from over there was literally "We wiped on 2nd and didn't respawn in time to defend last" with less than 8 people on each team. so yeah even if you feel like it's a useless thought please give it!
[quote=4812622]I think there's this attitude among mappers where you have to have the original creator's permission to change their map
And the maker of yukon is mia
Source: haven't touched hammer but teammate loved to rant about mapping[/quote]
as long as it's an official map it doesn't really matter except for awkward social reasons, valve owns them intellectually speaking and they explicitly let people mod their stuff
that said: aside from bad clipping, anybody have any specific changes for yukon? i'm willing to make adjustments for testing like I said but I need some specific ideas
second note: according to phi and hyce and others, comp players are actually really good at leaving good feedback for 5cp maps compared to other groups like tf2maps.net. the last feedback i got from over there was literally "We wiped on 2nd and didn't respawn in time to defend last" with less than 8 people on each team. so yeah even if you feel like it's a useless thought [i]please give it[/i]!
And the maker of yukon is mia
Source: haven't touched hammer but teammate loved to rant about mapping[/quote]
as long as it's an official map it doesn't really matter except for awkward social reasons, valve owns them intellectually speaking and they explicitly let people mod their stuff
that said: aside from bad clipping, anybody have any specific changes for yukon? i'm willing to make adjustments for testing like I said but I need some specific ideas
second note: according to phi and hyce and others, comp players are actually really good at leaving good feedback for 5cp maps compared to other groups like tf2maps.net. the last feedback i got from over there was literally "We wiped on 2nd and didn't respawn in time to defend last" with less than 8 people on each team. so yeah even if you feel like it's a useless thought [i]please give it[/i]!
wareya4812622I think there's this attitude among mappers where you have to have the original creator's permission to change their mapas long as it's an official map it doesn't really matter except for awkward social reasons, valve owns them intellectually speaking and they explicitly let people mod their stuff
And the maker of yukon is mia
Source: haven't touched hammer but teammate loved to rant about mapping
that said: aside from bad clipping, anybody have any specific changes for yukon? i'm willing to make adjustments for testing like I said but I need some specific ideas
second note: according to phi and hyce and others, comp players are actually really good at leaving good feedback for 5cp maps compared to other groups like tf2maps.net. the last feedback i got from over there was literally "We wiped on 2nd and didn't respawn in time to defend last" with less than 8 people on each team. so yeah even if you feel like it's a useless thought please give it!
i dont really know if this falls under bad clipping, but i found a few sneaky beaky spots, i can post pictures of them tomorrow when i get home.
[quote=wareya][quote=4812622]I think there's this attitude among mappers where you have to have the original creator's permission to change their map
And the maker of yukon is mia
Source: haven't touched hammer but teammate loved to rant about mapping[/quote]
as long as it's an official map it doesn't really matter except for awkward social reasons, valve owns them intellectually speaking and they explicitly let people mod their stuff
that said: aside from bad clipping, anybody have any specific changes for yukon? i'm willing to make adjustments for testing like I said but I need some specific ideas
second note: according to phi and hyce and others, comp players are actually really good at leaving good feedback for 5cp maps compared to other groups like tf2maps.net. the last feedback i got from over there was literally "We wiped on 2nd and didn't respawn in time to defend last" with less than 8 people on each team. so yeah even if you feel like it's a useless thought [i]please give it[/i]![/quote]
i dont really know if this falls under bad clipping, but i found a few sneaky beaky spots, i can post pictures of them tomorrow when i get home.
And the maker of yukon is mia
Source: haven't touched hammer but teammate loved to rant about mapping[/quote]
as long as it's an official map it doesn't really matter except for awkward social reasons, valve owns them intellectually speaking and they explicitly let people mod their stuff
that said: aside from bad clipping, anybody have any specific changes for yukon? i'm willing to make adjustments for testing like I said but I need some specific ideas
second note: according to phi and hyce and others, comp players are actually really good at leaving good feedback for 5cp maps compared to other groups like tf2maps.net. the last feedback i got from over there was literally "We wiped on 2nd and didn't respawn in time to defend last" with less than 8 people on each team. so yeah even if you feel like it's a useless thought [i]please give it[/i]![/quote]
i dont really know if this falls under bad clipping, but i found a few sneaky beaky spots, i can post pictures of them tomorrow when i get home.
http://imgur.com/a/xtWeC#0
sneaky beaky spots that should probably get fixed...
http://imgur.com/a/xtWeC#0
sneaky beaky spots that should probably get fixed...
sneaky beaky spots that should probably get fixed...
mustardoverlordMunchThe main problem that was going on when stalin was running new map pugs is that it was hard to get people that actually wanted to test new maps. Sure we could get 12 in a server but they'd either just fuck around the entire pug or they just never gave any actual feedback and kept asking if we could play the "good" maps instead (which at the time was sunshine). Imo if people want to get GOOD NEW maps into the rotation there needs to be a group of higher level players... like IM+ at least taking a few hours out of their nights on pug.na or whatever to just play some new maps and give actual feedback to the map makers. This would also help with the problem of people just voting in whatever without actually knowing what the map is like at all.
someone needs to start an OLD MAP PUGS group
week 1: yukon, waste, freight, mainline, prolane, junction, broma
lets go
that sounds painful
[quote=mustardoverlord][quote=Munch]The main problem that was going on when stalin was running new map pugs is that it was hard to get people that actually wanted to test new maps. Sure we could get 12 in a server but they'd either just fuck around the entire pug or they just never gave any actual feedback and kept asking if we could play the "good" maps instead (which at the time was sunshine). Imo if people want to get GOOD NEW maps into the rotation there needs to be a group of higher level players... like IM+ at least taking a few hours out of their nights on pug.na or whatever to just play some new maps and give actual feedback to the map makers. This would also help with the problem of people just voting in whatever without actually knowing what the map is like at all.[/quote]
someone needs to start an OLD MAP PUGS group
week 1: yukon, waste, freight, mainline, prolane, junction, broma
lets go[/quote]
that sounds painful
someone needs to start an OLD MAP PUGS group
week 1: yukon, waste, freight, mainline, prolane, junction, broma
lets go[/quote]
that sounds painful
I fully agree that the issue is not getting mappers it is getting the mappers good feedback.
Intermodal got fucked because the only feedback I was getting was from players similar to my caliber at the time- less than open. We didn't really know what was up or why things worked or they didn't.
Logjam worked out great because when I re-designed it for a10 and handed it to ETF2L to test they really liked it, and their premiership guys would doublemix it frequently and give feedback. ETF2L put it in their Nations Cup, they made their biggest single map cup ever on it with 144 teams, and they put it in their 19th season to help me out.
CEVO put it in preseason which was a nice thought but like 4 people played it and didn't say anything.
tl;dr NA TF2 for the most part doesn't really give any good feedback to maps (love you mangachu and b4nny)
I fully agree that the issue is not getting mappers it is getting the mappers good feedback.
Intermodal got fucked because the only feedback I was getting was from players similar to my caliber at the time- less than open. We didn't really know what was up or why things worked or they didn't.
Logjam worked out great because when I re-designed it for a10 and handed it to ETF2L to test they really liked it, and their premiership guys would doublemix it frequently and give feedback. ETF2L put it in their Nations Cup, they made their biggest single map cup ever on it with 144 teams, and they put it in their 19th season to help me out.
CEVO put it in preseason which was a nice thought but like 4 people played it and didn't say anything.
tl;dr NA TF2 for the most part doesn't really give any good feedback to maps (love you mangachu and b4nny)
Intermodal got fucked because the only feedback I was getting was from players similar to my caliber at the time- less than open. We didn't really know what was up or why things worked or they didn't.
Logjam worked out great because when I re-designed it for a10 and handed it to ETF2L to test they really liked it, and their premiership guys would doublemix it frequently and give feedback. ETF2L put it in their Nations Cup, they made their biggest single map cup ever on it with 144 teams, and they put it in their 19th season to help me out.
CEVO put it in preseason which was a nice thought but like 4 people played it and didn't say anything.
tl;dr NA TF2 for the most part doesn't really give any good feedback to maps (love you mangachu and b4nny)
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