My thoughts are that most of the unlocks should be allowed for 6v6 ESEA (other than for heavy and engineer. )
Engi unlocks are thrash and pretty much is "How to ensure a sentry lives forever"
Heavy unlocks, the sandwich can break things in tf2 and so can the GRU.
Other class unlocks are fine with the exception of the reserve shooter pyro combo which should be banned until nerf.
Many other unlocks like soda popper, baby face blaster are not unfair in tf2. These unlocks just change the class more than being overpowered. Like the baby face blaster increases the picking ability of the scout in exchange for the cleanup frags. Teams can counter them. Soda popper ban is kind of the ban where it was unfair when it first came out and then no one bothered to unban. Flying guillotine ban? Bonk ban? Crit a cola definitely seems overpowered but it should be given a try. Mad milk can maybe give room for a lot of dry pushes and it is a more team centred item. One vs one it is useless(takes too much time to deploy). So it takes out the scouts 1v1 ability and gives a significant team advantage. It doesnt seem that bad because unless an entire team walks through choke, if lucky you will get 2 people milked which makes an ok difference. I dont think the mad milk should be banned unless it is tried out like the quickfix. Maybe off season. Sand man ban? this is a high skill cieling weapon that makes for exciting plays. The ban only reduces the overall excitement of a game. Wrap assassin seems like an upgrade since no one melees anyway but bleed damage is not significant, considering scouts hit slow targets (Read soldier) that are probably gonna get healed anyway. If he manages to hit a scout, then props to him, well played. This ban should be revised.
I dont know why batallions backup is banned, doesnt seem too unfair. Other than shotgun or gunboats, soldiers dont run other secondaries anyway. These bans just make competitive tf2 harder for pub players to join into. ( conch, buff banner has been allowed in esea for a few seasons now and we havent seen a lot of action). I dont know why the cow mangler is banned. That weapon is simply a downgrade to the rocket launcher. There is no point in banning it. The beggars bazooka I feel hasnt even been tried. 2 scouts can shutdown a beggars soldier. Against good scouts that few seconds it takes to reload means life or death. This also makes the soldier more of a pick class and sacrifices the ability to secure position as you are vulnerable when reloading. Liberty launcher also seems like a fair trade off. A_Seagull once mentioned that he would love to see a soldier become good with directs with the liberty launcher as it would make things interesting. I too think it should be unbanned. Disciplinary action should be tried off season though it will probably get banned, but its ok when these bans are just 1 or 2 weapons. It makes the transition from pub to comp easier . When someone spends like 150 hrs with the baby face blaster, not being able to use it in comp tf2 is upsetting. There should be as less bans as possible. Most bans right now change up a class rather than making it directly overpowered. They really shouldnt be banned unless it is heavy or engi which would just break comp tf2. It makes it exciting to see a soda popper pro scout (Read : Ibby) and makes tf2 more fun to watch.
Demo suprisingly has a less number of bans. (Unless you count demoknight as a legit class) Quickfix i feel should be banned and not many people full time pub medic anyways (probably) . There should at least be revision for all current bans. What do you guys think? Can we make this happen?
Engi unlocks are thrash and pretty much is "How to ensure a sentry lives forever"
Heavy unlocks, the sandwich can break things in tf2 and so can the GRU.
Other class unlocks are fine with the exception of the reserve shooter pyro combo which should be banned until nerf.
Many other unlocks like soda popper, baby face blaster are not unfair in tf2. These unlocks just change the class more than being overpowered. Like the baby face blaster increases the picking ability of the scout in exchange for the cleanup frags. Teams can counter them. Soda popper ban is kind of the ban where it was unfair when it first came out and then no one bothered to unban. Flying guillotine ban? Bonk ban? Crit a cola definitely seems overpowered but it should be given a try. Mad milk can maybe give room for a lot of dry pushes and it is a more team centred item. One vs one it is useless(takes too much time to deploy). So it takes out the scouts 1v1 ability and gives a significant team advantage. It doesnt seem that bad because unless an entire team walks through choke, if lucky you will get 2 people milked which makes an ok difference. I dont think the mad milk should be banned unless it is tried out like the quickfix. Maybe off season. Sand man ban? this is a high skill cieling weapon that makes for exciting plays. The ban only reduces the overall excitement of a game. Wrap assassin seems like an upgrade since no one melees anyway but bleed damage is not significant, considering scouts hit slow targets (Read soldier) that are probably gonna get healed anyway. If he manages to hit a scout, then props to him, well played. This ban should be revised.
I dont know why batallions backup is banned, doesnt seem too unfair. Other than shotgun or gunboats, soldiers dont run other secondaries anyway. These bans just make competitive tf2 harder for pub players to join into. ( conch, buff banner has been allowed in esea for a few seasons now and we havent seen a lot of action). I dont know why the cow mangler is banned. That weapon is simply a downgrade to the rocket launcher. There is no point in banning it. The beggars bazooka I feel hasnt even been tried. 2 scouts can shutdown a beggars soldier. Against good scouts that few seconds it takes to reload means life or death. This also makes the soldier more of a pick class and sacrifices the ability to secure position as you are vulnerable when reloading. Liberty launcher also seems like a fair trade off. A_Seagull once mentioned that he would love to see a soldier become good with directs with the liberty launcher as it would make things interesting. I too think it should be unbanned. Disciplinary action should be tried off season though it will probably get banned, but its ok when these bans are just 1 or 2 weapons. It makes the transition from pub to comp easier . When someone spends like 150 hrs with the baby face blaster, not being able to use it in comp tf2 is upsetting. There should be as less bans as possible. Most bans right now change up a class rather than making it directly overpowered. They really shouldnt be banned unless it is heavy or engi which would just break comp tf2. It makes it exciting to see a soda popper pro scout (Read : Ibby) and makes tf2 more fun to watch.
Demo suprisingly has a less number of bans. (Unless you count demoknight as a legit class) Quickfix i feel should be banned and not many people full time pub medic anyways (probably) . There should at least be revision for all current bans. What do you guys think? Can we make this happen?
Who literally need useless weapons allowed in comp 6's? I mean, that current meta has been around there for ages (except couple unlocks were added), so why would we want to change it?
edit: dumpster please
edit: dumpster please
what you don't seem to understand is the vast majority of these HAVE been tried out and proved to be hilariously game-changing and imbalanced
blazeitIt makes the transition from pub to comp easier . When someone spends like 150 hrs with the baby face blaster, not being able to use it in comp tf2 is upsetting. There should be as less bans as possible.
And that's what highlander is for, not 6v6.
We saw the Valve showmatches. Yes, not all the unlocks were viable, but the inclusion of things like the BFB completely broke down the structure of the game and made it pretty un-enjoyable to watch and (from what I understand) play, especially as a longer-term competitive form as opposed to just a few pugs.
And that's what highlander is for, not 6v6.
We saw the Valve showmatches. Yes, not all the unlocks were viable, but the inclusion of things like the BFB completely broke down the structure of the game and made it pretty un-enjoyable to watch and (from what I understand) play, especially as a longer-term competitive form as opposed to just a few pugs.
AlkalineblazeitIt makes the transition from pub to comp easier . When someone spends like 150 hrs with the baby face blaster, not being able to use it in comp tf2 is upsetting. There should be as less bans as possible.
And that's what highlander is for, not 6v6.
We saw the Valve showmatches. Yes, not all the unlocks were viable, but the inclusion of things like the BFB completely broke down the structure of the game and made it pretty un-enjoyable to watch and (from what I understand) play, especially as a longer-term competitive form as opposed to just a few pugs.
The showmatches were absolutely hilarious to watch due to how broken BFB was.
And that's what highlander is for, not 6v6.
We saw the Valve showmatches. Yes, not all the unlocks were viable, but the inclusion of things like the BFB completely broke down the structure of the game and made it pretty un-enjoyable to watch and (from what I understand) play, especially as a longer-term competitive form as opposed to just a few pugs.[/quote]
The showmatches were absolutely hilarious to watch due to how broken BFB was.
(I tried cleaning up his points for people to read, upon further inspection I have wasted my time. I don't agree with a majority of these)
My thoughts are that most of the unlocks should be allowed for 6v6 ESEA (other than for heavy and engineer).
Engineer: Unlocks are trash and pretty much is "How to ensure a sentry lives forever"
Heavy: Unlocks, the sandwich can break things in tf2 and so can the GRU.
Pyro: Reserve shooter pyro combo which should be banned until nerf.
Scout: Many other unlocks like soda popper, baby face blaster are not unfair in tf2. These unlocks just change the class more than being overpowered.
- • The baby face blaster increases the picking ability of the scout in exchange for the cleanup frags. Teams can counter them.
• Soda popper ban is kind of the ban where it was unfair when it first came out and then no one bothered to unban.
• Crit a cola definitely seems overpowered but it should be given a try. Mad milk can maybe give room for a lot of dry pushes and it is a more team centred item. One vs one it is useless (takes too much time to deploy). So it takes out the scout’s 1v1 ability and gives a significant team advantage. It doesn’t seem that bad because unless an entire team walks through choke, if lucky you will get 2 people milked which makes an ok difference. I don’t think the mad milk should be banned unless it is tried out like the quick fix. Maybe off season.
• Sand man ban? This is a high skill ceiling weapon that makes for exciting plays. The ban only reduces the overall excitement of a game. Wrap assassin seems like an upgrade since no one melees anyway but bleed damage is not significant, considering scouts hit slow targets (Read soldier) that are probably going to get healed anyway. If he manages to hit a scout, then props to him; well played. This ban should be revised.
Soldier: I don’t know why battalions backup is banned, doesn’t seem too unfair. Other than shotgun or gunboats, soldiers don’t run other secondaries anyway. These bans just make competitive tf2 harder for pub players to join into (conch, buff banner has been allowed in ESEA for a few seasons now and we haven’t seen a lot of action).
- • Why is cow mangler banned? That weapon is simply a downgrade to the rocket launcher. There is no point in banning it.
• The beggar’s bazooka I feel hasn’t even been tried. 2 scouts can shut down a beggars soldier. Against good scouts that few seconds it takes to reload means life or death. This also makes the soldier more of a pick class and sacrifices the ability to secure position as you are vulnerable when reloading.
• Liberty launcher also seems like a fair trade off. A Seagull once mentioned that he would love to see a soldier become good with directs with the liberty launcher as it would make things interesting. I too think it should be unbanned.
• Disciplinary action should be tried off season though it will probably get banned, but its ok when these bans are just 1 or 2 weapons. It makes the transition from pub to comp easier.
Demo: surprisingly has a less number of bans. (Unless you count demo knight as a legit class). Quick fix I feel should be banned and not many people full time pub medic anyways (probably). There should at least be revision for all current bans.
When someone spends like 150 hours with the baby face blaster, not being able to use it in comp tf2 is upsetting. There should be as less bans as possible. Most bans right now change up a class rather than making it directly overpowered. They really shouldn’t be banned unless it is heavy or engineer which would just break comp tf2. It makes it exciting to see a soda popper pro scout, and makes tf2 more fun to watch. What do you guys think? Can we make this happen?
My thoughts are that most of the unlocks should be allowed for 6v6 ESEA (other than for heavy and engineer).
[b]Engineer[/b]: Unlocks are trash and pretty much is "How to ensure a sentry lives forever"
[b]Heavy[/b]: Unlocks, the sandwich can break things in tf2 and so can the GRU.
[b]Pyro[/b]: Reserve shooter pyro combo which should be banned until nerf.
[b]Scout[/b]: Many other unlocks like soda popper, baby face blaster are not unfair in tf2. These unlocks just change the class more than being overpowered.
[list]
• The baby face blaster increases the picking ability of the scout in exchange for the cleanup frags. Teams can counter them.
• Soda popper ban is kind of the ban where it was unfair when it first came out and then no one bothered to unban.
• Crit a cola definitely seems overpowered but it should be given a try. Mad milk can maybe give room for a lot of dry pushes and it is a more team centred item. One vs one it is useless (takes too much time to deploy). So it takes out the scout’s 1v1 ability and gives a significant team advantage. It doesn’t seem that bad because unless an entire team walks through choke, if lucky you will get 2 people milked which makes an ok difference. I don’t think the mad milk should be banned unless it is tried out like the quick fix. Maybe off season.
• Sand man ban? This is a high skill ceiling weapon that makes for exciting plays. The ban only reduces the overall excitement of a game. Wrap assassin seems like an upgrade since no one melees anyway but bleed damage is not significant, considering scouts hit slow targets (Read soldier) that are probably going to get healed anyway. If he manages to hit a scout, then props to him; well played. This ban should be revised.
[/list]
[b]Soldier[/b]: I don’t know why battalions backup is banned, doesn’t seem too unfair. Other than shotgun or gunboats, soldiers don’t run other secondaries anyway. These bans just make competitive tf2 harder for pub players to join into (conch, buff banner has been allowed in ESEA for a few seasons now and we haven’t seen a lot of action).
[list]
• Why is cow mangler banned? That weapon is simply a downgrade to the rocket launcher. There is no point in banning it.
• The beggar’s bazooka I feel hasn’t even been tried. 2 scouts can shut down a beggars soldier. Against good scouts that few seconds it takes to reload means life or death. This also makes the soldier more of a pick class and sacrifices the ability to secure position as you are vulnerable when reloading.
• Liberty launcher also seems like a fair trade off. A Seagull once mentioned that he would love to see a soldier become good with directs with the liberty launcher as it would make things interesting. I too think it should be unbanned.
• Disciplinary action should be tried off season though it will probably get banned, but its ok when these bans are just 1 or 2 weapons. It makes the transition from pub to comp easier.
[/list]
[b]Demo[/b]: surprisingly has a less number of bans. (Unless you count demo knight as a legit class). Quick fix I feel should be banned and not many people full time pub medic anyways (probably). There should at least be revision for all current bans.
When someone spends like 150 hours with the baby face blaster, not being able to use it in comp tf2 is upsetting. There should be as less bans as possible. Most bans right now change up a class rather than making it directly overpowered. They really shouldn’t be banned unless it is heavy or engineer which would just break comp tf2. It makes it exciting to see a soda popper pro scout, and makes tf2 more fun to watch. What do you guys think? Can we make this happen?
mnow can u fix all the dumb shit he says too
blazeitI enjoy tf2. There is nothing wrong with the current whitelist!
dont test me :^|
[quote=blazeit]I enjoy tf2. There is nothing wrong with the current whitelist! [/quote]
dont test me :^|
If something is banned in highlander it's gonna be hard to make a case for it. The beggar's and BFB proved to be OP despite counter classes (pyro, engineer) existing full time.
I don't see any value in allowing unlocks that aren't viable either, e.g. liberty launcher. Giving new players a lot of options makes it harder for them to learn. Some UGC iron logs show full time double snipers, for instance...
I don't see any value in allowing unlocks that aren't viable either, e.g. liberty launcher. Giving new players a lot of options makes it harder for them to learn. Some UGC iron logs show full time double snipers, for instance...
the liberty launcher IS allowed
i think it's viable for shotgun roamers
the problem is, if you wanna play shotgun roamer, you have to be able to aim shotgun
and if i could do that id probably play scout heh
soda popper has 2shots in .3 seconds, more dps than scattergun factoring reloads and almost the same dps not factoring reloads, and quintuple jump shits all over roamers and demos (like, even harder)
mad milk and critacola are broken as fuck, sandman is awful to play against
cm5k isnt a huge deal but removing ammo management as a concept for roamers seems kinda dumb
bazooka is ridiculously overpowered, 23 clip rocket launcher and no mini-sentries to get destroyed by at mid-range
When someone spends like 150 hours with the baby face blaster, not being able to use it in comp tf2 is upsetting.
what's upsetting is when two bfb scouts obliterate your whole team because that weapon is broken as fuck
the only things i'd add to the whitelist are tomislav (silent rev at the cost of a significant amount of dps), dalokohs (flank heavy!), and widowmaker. and iron bomber i guess. i also really want powerjack to be unbanned but it's probably definitely too good :c
i think it's viable for shotgun roamers
the problem is, if you wanna play shotgun roamer, you have to be able to aim shotgun
and if i could do that id probably play scout heh
soda popper has 2shots in .3 seconds, more dps than scattergun factoring reloads and almost the same dps not factoring reloads, and quintuple jump shits all over roamers and demos (like, even harder)
mad milk and critacola are broken as fuck, sandman is awful to play against
cm5k isnt a huge deal but removing ammo management as a concept for roamers seems kinda dumb
bazooka is ridiculously overpowered, 23 clip rocket launcher and no mini-sentries to get destroyed by at mid-range
[quote]When someone spends like 150 hours with the baby face blaster, not being able to use it in comp tf2 is upsetting.[/quote]
what's upsetting is when two bfb scouts obliterate your whole team because that weapon is broken as fuck
the only things i'd add to the whitelist are tomislav (silent rev at the cost of a significant amount of dps), dalokohs (flank heavy!), and widowmaker. and iron bomber i guess. i also really want powerjack to be unbanned but it's probably definitely too good :c
aim-http://puu.sh/g5gAJ/99d72e6787.jpg
move on
insult him for his bad ideas if you must but you don't have bully the guy
move on[/quote]
insult him for his bad ideas if you must but you don't have bully the guy
blazeitSoda popper ban is kind of the ban where it was unfair when it first came out and then no one bothered to unban.
Without even abusing the +reload reload speed, the soda popper has higher dps than the scattergun until its fifth shot. It's very close to being a direct upgrade.
Without even abusing the +reload reload speed, the soda popper has higher dps than the scattergun until its fifth shot. It's very close to being a direct upgrade.
[spoiler]
[img]http://tweakers.net/ext/f/s57SlHpEA3QiVmeLEoMlSKnA/full.png[/img][/spoiler]
baby face's blaster was banned before it was buffed
playing a single game against a team of equal or greater skill will show anyone why the BFB is banned almost immediately
playing a single game against a team of equal or greater skill will show anyone why the BFB is banned almost immediately
was the bfb really banned? i feel like it was allowed in tf2lobby or something at least, i remember my friend using it
pre-buff it was a subpar gimmick. you were really fast and has tighter spread for more mid-ranged power, but you couldn't jump and were as slow as a demo walking to mid. it was actually pretty challenging to use properly because you had to time your jumps so you could hit 1-2 meatshots right after so you didn't lose any speed. it also charged significantly slower i think. i liked the concept of jump-shooting and tighter spread on old bfb. if they brought back the old bfb and tweaked the stats to make it less shitty it would be nice.
pre-buff it was a subpar gimmick. you were really fast and has tighter spread for more mid-ranged power, but you couldn't jump and were as slow as a demo walking to mid. it was actually pretty challenging to use properly because you had to time your jumps so you could hit 1-2 meatshots right after so you didn't lose any speed. it also charged significantly slower i think. i liked the concept of jump-shooting and tighter spread on old bfb. if they brought back the old bfb and tweaked the stats to make it less shitty it would be nice.
Soda popper doesn't mini crit anymore so all you get now are those gimicky jumps, right?
4812622was the bfb really banned? i feel like it was allowed in tf2lobby or something at least, i remember my friend using it
pre-buff it was a subpar gimmick. you were really fast and has tighter spread for more mid-ranged power, but you couldn't jump and were as slow as a demo walking to mid. it was actually pretty challenging to use properly because you had to time your jumps so you could hit 1-2 meatshots right after so you didn't lose any speed. it also charged significantly slower i think. i liked the concept of jump-shooting and tighter spread on old bfb. if they brought back the old bfb and tweaked the stats to make it less shitty it would be nice.
It didn't charge "slower" the charge was completely based on your damage output, but when they buffed the damage, they didn't change how much damage charged the meter so now that it does more damage you can charge it way faster.
But yeah BFB is broken as fuck and anyone that thinks it should be allowed in any competitive format is outright bonkers.
pre-buff it was a subpar gimmick. you were really fast and has tighter spread for more mid-ranged power, but you couldn't jump and were as slow as a demo walking to mid. it was actually pretty challenging to use properly because you had to time your jumps so you could hit 1-2 meatshots right after so you didn't lose any speed. it also charged significantly slower i think. i liked the concept of jump-shooting and tighter spread on old bfb. if they brought back the old bfb and tweaked the stats to make it less shitty it would be nice.[/quote]
It didn't charge "slower" the charge was completely based on your damage output, but when they buffed the damage, they didn't change how much damage charged the meter so now that it does more damage you can charge it way faster.
But yeah BFB is broken as fuck and anyone that thinks it should be allowed in any competitive format is outright bonkers.
Dr_DjonesSoda popper doesn't mini crit anymore so all you get now are those gimicky jumps, right?
Yeah but it still does more base damage and has a faster firerate so it's still pretty OP
Yeah but it still does more base damage and has a faster firerate so it's still pretty OP
it would be OP even if you took away the minicrits and gimmicky jumps and left nothing but its damage, firing rate, and reload rate.
btw, lag compensation doesn't seem to be interpolated properly below cmdrate (this means that movements and clicks you do between input frames are rounded to the next input frame), so hitting BFB scouts is actually hard for an engine reason.
https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/blob/master/sp/src/game/shared/usercmd.h#L133
https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/blob/master/mp/src/game/server/player_lagcompensation.cpp#L385
https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/blob/master/mp/src/game/server/player_lagcompensation.cpp#L419
https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/blob/master/mp/src/game/server/player_lagcompensation.cpp#L503
https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/blob/master/sp/src/game/shared/usercmd.h#L133
https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/blob/master/mp/src/game/server/player_lagcompensation.cpp#L385
https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/blob/master/mp/src/game/server/player_lagcompensation.cpp#L419
https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/blob/master/mp/src/game/server/player_lagcompensation.cpp#L503
Thanks for formatting. I'll actually read this one.
Obi• The baby face blaster increases the picking ability of the scout in exchange for the cleanup frags. Teams can counter them.
• Soda popper ban is kind of the ban where it was unfair when it first came out and then no one bothered to unban.
• Crit a cola definitely seems overpowered but it should be given a try. Mad milk can maybe give room for a lot of dry pushes and it is a more team centred item. One vs one it is useless (takes too much time to deploy). So it takes out the scout’s 1v1 ability and gives a significant team advantage. It doesn’t seem that bad because unless an entire team walks through choke, if lucky you will get 2 people milked which makes an ok difference. I don’t think the mad milk should be banned unless it is tried out like the quick fix. Maybe off season.
• Sand man ban? This is a high skill ceiling weapon that makes for exciting plays. The ban only reduces the overall excitement of a game. Wrap assassin seems like an upgrade since no one melees anyway but bleed damage is not significant, considering scouts hit slow targets (Read soldier) that are probably going to get healed anyway. If he manages to hit a scout, then props to him; well played. This ban should be revised.
I don't feel I need to explain BFB. You don't exchange ability to cleanup frags though, because you get in so damn fast then get out just as fast. You don't need to be 'counterable' to be overpowered.
As said elsewhere in the thread, Soda popper is almost a direct upgrade. With +reload, it is 100% more dps/burst/everything. Without it, the dps is very similar, but at the same time gives you the ability to completely shit on any shotgunless soldier. You can't really touch him without hitscan.
Cola: turn a corner and 1shot a bitch. Abused the hell out of this when it was allowed in highlander. Would probably be even more effective in a format without a heavy and a sentry.
Milk is really good. Even 1v1. If you try to pull it out in the fight, you're doing it wrong. You throw it as you engage before damage is effective, and as long as you hit your shots, you can potentially swing any 1v1, or potentially 1v2 to a win. Drop it on more than one target and make a bombing soldier your worst nightmare. Throw it on people in a push, and now they can't really push outside a solo-uber. It's really really good.
Sandman should stay banned. It's a highskill weapon in theory, but in actuality, it's spam a ball through a choke every 20 seconds, and if you get a hit, your roamer gets a free kill on a combo class. Works better on some maps than others. Bean a soldier on top of snakewater mid, get a free kill for your soldier. It's really strong. If it required you to hit or always retrieve your ball it might be better, but with your ability to spam it in stalemates on cooldown it's just stupid.
Wrap assassin probably upgrade over stock, but I'd rather have the basher myself. It would only be a nuisance item, but maybe that's why it was banned in the first place.
ObiSoldier• Why is cow mangler banned? That weapon is simply a downgrade to the rocket launcher. There is no point in banning it.
• The beggar’s bazooka I feel hasn’t even been tried. 2 scouts can shut down a beggars soldier. Against good scouts that few seconds it takes to reload means life or death. This also makes the soldier more of a pick class and sacrifices the ability to secure position as you are vulnerable when reloading.
• Liberty launcher also seems like a fair trade off. A Seagull once mentioned that he would love to see a soldier become good with directs with the liberty launcher as it would make things interesting. I too think it should be unbanned.
• Disciplinary action should be tried off season though it will probably get banned, but its ok when these bans are just 1 or 2 weapons. It makes the transition from pub to comp easier.
Run launcher to mid, both meds die, swap to mangler. Outside of a push it is just a launcher with infinite ammo (which is significant, especially on maps where you have to travel far to find ammo). It also has the ability to spam a fairly high damage rocket with no fall-off that sets people on fire. It's pretty much a straight upgrade in stalemates, and the downside is only to sentries. The reload issue is only on first rocket and if you tend to die quickly (stalemate into roamer engage?) doesn't come up.
You can't honestly think turning a corner with 3 rockets and killing someone is balanced, can you? In a close up fight it's like a rocket launcher with infinite ammo in clip, and it can do some impossibly hard to stop bombs. Even highlander bans this weapon.
LL is allowed. Use it if you want it.
Whip gets heavies to mid. Lets run snipers to mid to counter him. No thanks.
ObiWhen someone spends like 150 hours with the baby face blaster, not being able to use it in comp tf2 is upsetting. There should be as less bans as possible. Most bans right now change up a class rather than making it directly overpowered. They really shouldn’t be banned unless it is heavy or engineer which would just break comp tf2. It makes it exciting to see a soda popper pro scout, and makes tf2 more fun to watch. What do you guys think? Can we make this happen?
I agree it's upsetting, but that's Valve's fault. If weapons and classes could be in a proper balance by default, it would be amazing, and make it much easier to get into competitive without a wall of information and rules. However, many weapons are just way too strong.
[quote=Obi]
[list]
• The baby face blaster increases the picking ability of the scout in exchange for the cleanup frags. Teams can counter them.
• Soda popper ban is kind of the ban where it was unfair when it first came out and then no one bothered to unban.
• Crit a cola definitely seems overpowered but it should be given a try. Mad milk can maybe give room for a lot of dry pushes and it is a more team centred item. One vs one it is useless (takes too much time to deploy). So it takes out the scout’s 1v1 ability and gives a significant team advantage. It doesn’t seem that bad because unless an entire team walks through choke, if lucky you will get 2 people milked which makes an ok difference. I don’t think the mad milk should be banned unless it is tried out like the quick fix. Maybe off season.
• Sand man ban? This is a high skill ceiling weapon that makes for exciting plays. The ban only reduces the overall excitement of a game. Wrap assassin seems like an upgrade since no one melees anyway but bleed damage is not significant, considering scouts hit slow targets (Read soldier) that are probably going to get healed anyway. If he manages to hit a scout, then props to him; well played. This ban should be revised.
[/list]
[/quote]
I don't feel I need to explain BFB. You don't exchange ability to cleanup frags though, because you get in so damn fast then get out just as fast. You don't need to be 'counterable' to be overpowered.
As said elsewhere in the thread, Soda popper is almost a direct upgrade. With +reload, it is 100% more dps/burst/everything. Without it, the dps is very similar, but at the same time gives you the ability to completely shit on any shotgunless soldier. You can't really touch him without hitscan.
Cola: turn a corner and 1shot a bitch. Abused the hell out of this when it was allowed in highlander. Would probably be even more effective in a format without a heavy and a sentry.
Milk is really good. Even 1v1. If you try to pull it out in the fight, you're doing it wrong. You throw it as you engage before damage is effective, and as long as you hit your shots, you can potentially swing any 1v1, or potentially 1v2 to a win. Drop it on more than one target and make a bombing soldier your worst nightmare. Throw it on people in a push, and now they can't really push outside a solo-uber. It's really really good.
Sandman should stay banned. It's a highskill weapon in theory, but in actuality, it's spam a ball through a choke every 20 seconds, and if you get a hit, your roamer gets a free kill on a combo class. Works better on some maps than others. Bean a soldier on top of snakewater mid, get a free kill for your soldier. It's really strong. If it required you to hit or always retrieve your ball it might be better, but with your ability to spam it in stalemates on cooldown it's just stupid.
Wrap assassin probably upgrade over stock, but I'd rather have the basher myself. It would only be a nuisance item, but maybe that's why it was banned in the first place.
[quote=Obi]
[b]Soldier[/b]
[list]
• Why is cow mangler banned? That weapon is simply a downgrade to the rocket launcher. There is no point in banning it.
• The beggar’s bazooka I feel hasn’t even been tried. 2 scouts can shut down a beggars soldier. Against good scouts that few seconds it takes to reload means life or death. This also makes the soldier more of a pick class and sacrifices the ability to secure position as you are vulnerable when reloading.
• Liberty launcher also seems like a fair trade off. A Seagull once mentioned that he would love to see a soldier become good with directs with the liberty launcher as it would make things interesting. I too think it should be unbanned.
• Disciplinary action should be tried off season though it will probably get banned, but its ok when these bans are just 1 or 2 weapons. It makes the transition from pub to comp easier.
[/list]
[/quote]
Run launcher to mid, both meds die, swap to mangler. Outside of a push it is just a launcher with infinite ammo (which is significant, especially on maps where you have to travel far to find ammo). It also has the ability to spam a fairly high damage rocket with no fall-off that sets people on fire. It's pretty much a straight upgrade in stalemates, and the downside is only to sentries. The reload issue is only on first rocket and if you tend to die quickly (stalemate into roamer engage?) doesn't come up.
You can't honestly think turning a corner with 3 rockets and killing someone is balanced, can you? In a close up fight it's like a rocket launcher with infinite ammo in clip, and it can do some impossibly hard to stop bombs. Even highlander bans this weapon.
LL is allowed. Use it if you want it.
Whip gets heavies to mid. Lets run snipers to mid to counter him. No thanks.
[quote=Obi]
When someone spends like 150 hours with the baby face blaster, not being able to use it in comp tf2 is upsetting. There should be as less bans as possible. Most bans right now change up a class rather than making it directly overpowered. They really shouldn’t be banned unless it is heavy or engineer which would just break comp tf2. It makes it exciting to see a soda popper pro scout, and makes tf2 more fun to watch. What do you guys think? Can we make this happen?[/quote]
I agree it's upsetting, but that's Valve's fault. If weapons and classes could be in a proper balance by default, it would be amazing, and make it much easier to get into competitive without a wall of information and rules. However, many weapons are just way too strong.
When it comes to "useless" weapons - I think the case for unbanning them is pretty strong.
That is, it would seem like fairly big concession to Valve if all of a sudden we opened up the whitelist with a bunch more items and might help bridge that gap a little bit at essentially no cost to the game or community.
Keep the really unbalancing/broken ones out, of course.
And to be fair to our indifferent overlords at Valve, I am pretty sure it's impossible to truly balance this game for 12 and 18 and 24 players in the game at once. It's inevitable the utility of many items are going to scale with the size/compositions of the teams.
That is, it would seem like fairly big concession to Valve if all of a sudden we opened up the whitelist with a bunch more items and might help bridge that gap a little bit at essentially no cost to the game or community.
Keep the really unbalancing/broken ones out, of course.
And to be fair to our indifferent overlords at Valve, I am pretty sure it's impossible to truly balance this game for 12 and 18 and 24 players in the game at once. It's inevitable the utility of many items are going to scale with the size/compositions of the teams.
People keep bringing up Valve, but when was the last time we as a community had any communication with them? (outside of asking for medals). I just feel like it's time to stop chasing the dev support pipe dream based on talks we had almost two years ago and go back to making competitive as good as it can be.
SAAM_People keep bringing up Valve, but when was the last time we as a community had any communication with them? (outside of asking for medals). I just feel like it's time to stop chasing the dev support pipe dream based on talks we had almost two years ago and go back to making competitive as good as it can be.
Apparently there was some upper level e-mail with the inclusion of several big community members around the time Lange quit that went plain unanswered.
I ain't chasing any pipe dream hoping for Valve support. I'm just stating lots of stuff is broken and we can't just try to be "more similar to pub play".
Apparently there was some upper level e-mail with the inclusion of several big community members around the time Lange quit that went plain unanswered.
I ain't chasing any pipe dream hoping for Valve support. I'm just stating lots of stuff is broken and we can't just try to be "more similar to pub play".