Get aggressive on mid.

Jump both soldiers to initiate. Have the rest follow up immediately while playing on the point. Scouts job to either follow up on the damage already dealt or deny picks on your demo/medic.

Keep doing this until you win.

don't give him advice

Find a team that plays aggressively on mid and get them to agree to do mid fights with you. Use the mid fight trainer stuff that exists now or just reset rounds manually and play mid fights against that team over and over again resetting after a team "wins" mid until both teams are winning about evenly. Try new things every round while you're doing that until you find something that works for your teams style of play. Let every player on the team offer suggestions; Don't just rely on the caller to change it up between rounds everyone has their own perspective of the fight.

Sometimes it helps to play really passive and focus the first person that overextends into your team. After you get that kill instantly go super aggressive.

I think the only reason that works is that some teams like to do a single soldier bomb with their pocket sitting back and spamming and being useless, and that, DM of both teams being roughly even, doing a double soldier bomb with immediate follow-up from the rest of the team should wreck a passive strat

either do the same thing to their demo so that he doesnt get free reign to spam stickies while your demo is defending himself or get your scouts to play closer to your demo and pick the scout up

Scouts should be shooting the jumpers which would nullify most of the bomb. Assuming the passive team isn't clumped together. And you kill them once they land if they dont die in the air from the scouts/other focus fire (ex. airshots or airstickies).

But just like almost every other mid strat if you run it every round the other team will eventually counter it.

If their demo is doing the whole "follow my W+M1 scout across the point at mid" strat then you need to keep your demo somewhat passive on your side and put one of your scouts on your shack.

Keeping your demo closer to your side forces their team to cover too much ground to focus him. It also gives him a much better angle to deal with their bombing soldiers later in the fight. Your demo can spend most of the fight comfortably spamming long range stickies as their team blindly tries to walk into you.

Putting your scout on the shack basically tells their scout "you wont get to my demo without taking at least 100 dmg first." It also forces their demo to choose between targeting your scout or your demo, whereas if you just have your scouts standing next to your demo you will all eat the same damage.

Dealing with mindless aggression at mid is all about taking up better positions than your opponent and letting them walk into you.

You can also have one of your scouts roll out through kitchen which is a good ambush against teams that send two bombing soldiers.

aggressive teams tend to leave the flanks free (like in this case, where the scouts are rushing your demo
tell the demo to play passive and use 1 scout to potshot their scouts and the other one to pick one side and kill the demo

What also could be happening is that you could have too many people focusing their attention on the enemy bombers instead of applying pressure at midfights. If one soldier is jumping you, then only one person should address it. Anything more, and you'll be giving them ground AND man advantage as the remaining 2-3 people will have to fight everyone else.

I disagree. That's just hoping you win a 1v1. If you have 2-3 people focus him then he'll die almost immediately leaving you with a numbers advantage to engage the rest of their team.

depends, if the roamer bombs aggressively attempting to land on your demo's head and hit point blank 100dmg rockets to trade then yes you need to focus him and he will die fast

if hes doing 50 gunboat jumps around in the skybox so that you're hitting him for 15 damage while hes 500 feet above you then you will get crushed if 4 people waste their time shooting at him while the rest of the enemies are fucking upon your team

If you have 2-3 people focusing him then he's already done his job

yes i was assuming bombing demo/combo, not just jumping around to distract

if he's bombing your combo/demo and 2-3 people focus him he should die before he lands or immediately upon landing in which case he has not done his job (takes so short a time to kill him that it shouldn't largely affect positioning, and he shouldn't be able to do more than 100-150 damage that fast). if it takes the 2-3 people longer than that to kill him then yes, but it shouldn't

im an open shitty though so idk

you can shoot one or two rockets while jumping and one right as you land, the more people they have "dealing with you" the more people you're damaging with your bomb

if you can hit sick middies you only need one person to deal with him

if they're clumped together which should be avoided. One rocket in air for 50 and then another when landing for 100. Maybe a second one in air for another 50, I suppose so 200.

But if the roamer jumps on your demo and nobody else deals with him he will win that fight unless the demo has sick air pipes and that is not a good trade, correct?

I think (now correct me if I'm wrong Khai) that Khai is not so much trying to say, leave the demo to himself. But that if a large portion of your team diverts their attention to that soldier, if even for a little while, the rest of the enemy team is still there able to act.

You gotta realize during the seconds the soldier is bombing, there are other things happening around you. A couple seconds of having 3 or more players look and take down one guy is more than enough time for an enemy demo to capitalize and start getting aggression with the rest of his team.

You need to kill the soldier, yes, however focusing EVERYTHING on him is exactly what he wants if even only for a couple seconds. Because like stated earlier, an ACTUAL coordinated team will take advantage of that small opening and crush you during the midfight.

As for plus forwarding scouts, I find them to be incredibly easy to shutdown once you figure out where they are coming from. Having your scout have presence within the path the enemy scout is taking can sometimes just scare him off from going into your demo in the first place, if not force the scout to confront your player and take him out with ease given the right help ie: rocket/sticky spam.

At least that's how I look at it.

That's kind of what I meant. I actually realized after my post that 2-3 players could just mean the scouts and demo, which is totally fine. However I still believe that you need to deal with the bomber in a smart way. Both scouts and the demo dealing with the soldier jump is alright but the scouts need to makes sure they dont get hit by the bomb if its targeting the demo/medic combo. If you bomb and hit 2 rockets on 3 players your team is in a pretty good position in my opinion (supposing the rest of your team doesn't miss everything). Also if the scouts just tunnel vision on shooting the bomber and the other teams scouts just rush in and clean up, then the roamer did his job (which is more what I was trying to say).

Okay then we're basically in agreement. If the roamer is bombing the demo I would assume the 2-3 players would be the demo himself, a scout, and maybe another scout or one rocket from the pocket.

That was a joke btw, we're playing eachother in semifinals tomorrow. :] Should be on GTV for you guys, tune in.

Should send one of your scouts to do the same thing to their demo. Even try sending both. They'll think twice about being so aggressive when their demo is dead at that start of every round( unless theirs sucks and yours is good)

ukm you have a way with words

run heavy to mid

.

Haha, thanks for the input guys, will try it out tonight!

This :)