lets be real here, stoning adulterers and gay people, punishing apostasy by death, condoning slavery, and fucking over women, is not cool.

its an alligator

http://i.imgur.com/gRWoNNK.jpg

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=93d_1384239379

THINK OF THE GOATS AND SHEEP

Four lions is a fuckin hilarious movie, everyone needs to watch it

i cant tell whether ur talking about Christianity or Islam lmfao

well considering the only country with a christian state religion is the vatican and that they don't do any of that means that you're being edgy

mfw christians XD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyNzSW7I4qw

Argentina, Norway, Greece, England from the top of my head

You only further reinforce his point though, none of those countries do that anymore.

Yeah I know anymore could be used as a keyword here, but honestly same shit happened with the USSR and 1950s China with religious figures being exterminated or put into prison camps (and were made basically slaves), they also punished gay people, but they usually did a lot for equally treating women. My point in the last bit here religion isn't to be blamed assholes are in every major group/idea/belief.

It's funny because in the article he says he wants to fight for the laws of allah and he wants to be a martyr for his cause. Yeah nice try dumbass

and it even says the friend of the guy converted to Islam then went on to join ISIS

You guys are retarded if you think Islam has nothing to do with ISIS. You're just blatantly wrong.

From the article " “I’m happy for you and you are always in my prayer. I don’t want you getting in trouble so ima wrap this up real quick. Just a few things! Be careful who you kill, don’t neglect salah, recite qur’an and make tones of dua for guidance. And then trust in Allah. Don’t curse ppl you don’t know stuff about. And just take care, always."

"On August 11, 2014, S.R.G told Khan he was now fighting with ISIS, and Khan told him to make sure they weren’t “doing everything according to Islam …"

If you think Islam has nothing to do with it I'm not sure what does. If it had nothing to do with it then the whole organization would have religions of all kinds.

muslims killed jesus and framed the jews

Maybe islam is related to terrorism cause the middle east is a troubled area, and islam just happens to be the religion there lol. Also it's not like everyone there is a terrorist

ever since i reverted i've found a lot more personal peace

reading the qur'an was one of the most inspirational things i ever did

Here's the issue. All religions' holy books have various passages and interpretations that can be completely at odds with each other. The Quaran has very specific rules about how to "morally" engage in warfare (a precursor to the Geneva Convention), and ISIS quite blatantly violates every single one of those rules. Would that be grounds for saying ISIS is unIslamic? Up until the late 1980s, people were convinced that Catholic nations were authoritarian. It was a convincing argument, like 90% of majority Catholic nations were ruled by dictators and it's pretty easy to find quotes and traditions from Catholicism that would seem to support authoritarian rulers. But now of course we realize that the reason Latin America was undemocratic had very little to do with religion.

Same thing with Protestantism. The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism was a groundbreaking book by Max Weber, possibly the most important work in the history of sociology. Its core theory was that Protestant teachings were uniquely capitalist in a way that no other religion was or could be. It was an airtight argument, bringing in teachings from Luther and Calvin and applying them to the development of capitalism in West Europe, and it worked perfectly. Unfortunately for Weber, the 20th Century largely disproved his theory.

What I'm trying to get at is that saying "Islam made him do it" is a useless statement. Islam encompasses 3/4 of the Earth and something like 10 billion people over the course of 1,300 years. What would be a better idea is taking a look at what ideals, traditions, and teachings he valued within Islam, which ones he ignored, then honestly trying to figure out why some were seen as important and others were left by the wayside. Which schools of thought he adhered to, how they arose, what they were influenced by, what they responded to, and how they developed. You'll get actionable information out of the latter analysis, if you honestly believe "Islam" as a whole is an issue (or any religion as a whole is an issue) then you start to rely on the argument that "the only thing they understand is force." And that hasn't worked out.

I got a pretty good laugh out of the "join hamas" story lol. There *are* ways to get into Gaza, but it's pretty difficult to do - basically if you don't have family living there (and sometimes that's even an impossibility if you don't carry the right kind of passports) unless you're from a religious organization, charity, or a journalist. It *is* possible, but it takes a lot of work. It's also not hard to join "hamas" if you can vote for them (ie be Palestinian) - I assume he meant to join the Al Qassam which is the military wing of Hamas - but they don't even have weapons or supplies for all of their own members (being as unemployment in Gaza is so high tons of people have the spare time to join a militia and march around).

The problem is certainly *not* Islam in an of itself, because most of the "bad stuff" that people point out as being present in the Qur'ran *are also* present in some form in the Old Testament (and in some cases the new if you'll review Timothy). It's simply that the whole region has had to find some outlet for its dissatisfaction. In the 30's many of the nationalist groups, or pan-Arab groups toyed with the idea of joining the Axis or sent feelers to Hitler to see if there was any potential for them to gain independence from French and British hegemony with the aid of the Axis. Of course, that route didn't turn out so well, and a lot of people got shot.

So, West Asia, and its independence movements, turned broadly left, and started to court aid from the Soviet Union, or in many cases, both sides, with aid from the Soviet Union serving to ignite fear in the West and to cause them to give aid as well in increasing quantites. Ultimately, this didn't turn out well either - because Western nations generally stepped in and had all of the more pro-Soviet elements shot to re-secure economic hegemony. But they came back, so the "West" broadly speaking, chose to back Islamic radicals *and* traditional power bases willy-nilly.

Just for some examples. Iraq had a royal family, they were exceedingly corrupt and were overthrown by a series of military governments who purported to be broadly "Marxist" in approach, we fixed that problem by backing the "socialist" ba'ath party of Saddam Hussein. He was wildly popular and the US is still rightly regarded as having made an excellent decision here.

The US didn't like Nasser in Egypt because he was heavily courting aid from the USSR, so initially we backed Islamic "radicals" called the muslim brotherhood to get rid of him, but eventually he died of his own accord, and the guy after him ended up being a little bit more pro-US, and then he was shot by our *original* friends the Muslim Brotherhood and replaced by an exclusively pro-US guy Mubarak, our support for whom still makes us incredibly popular and well liked in the region. He was generally considered a great guy.

Afghanistan was once one of the most progressive countries in the whole of Western Asia, women didn't wear traditional "religious" head-gear, held prominent positions in government, and several government initiatives had aimed to make Afghanistan a viable agricultural exporter by constructing one of the largest dams and irrigation works in the region. But they were just a bit too far left, and when "radicals" started to rebel against the progressive policies of the government, who outwardly declared that it was Communist and pro-Soviet. The US chose to back this organization, I don't know if you've heard of it, called Al-Queda, lead by a really nice guy called Osama Bin Laden. Luckily for us, he won, and the Soviets chose to withdraw. Then that big farm project was switched over to opium production to make *real* money too, so it was really a win win for everybody involved, and we're still hugely popular for this decision, because like I said, they were such great guys who also happened to love freedom.

Basically *any* country you pick in the whole of Western Asia has a narrative that could loosely fit this form, but I'll present those cases alone with a heavy dose of sarcasm to help get my point across.

The point is, the reason "Islam" is so bound up with "terrorism" that is to say that those who feel that the best political tactics they have in hand are terroristic ones, tend to use Islam as a justification for those tactics, is because everybody else who mayhaps wouldn't have used Islam as a justification for their political acts, have already been killed, and their organizations completely destroyed. There simply are no organized liberals, or socialists, or social-democrats, their organizations have all been shattered time and again, and the only groups that are sufficiently organized to carry out political actions with clear goals in mind, are the radical religious groups that the "West' made such a habit of backing for years and years.

I also wouldn't be inclined to jump to conclusions about going to Turkey - of course the US government will because they're incredibly afraid that somebody would come back from there with ill intentions, but he could also have been meaning to join the US backed FSA or one of its subsidiaries, which does take foreign fighters, or perhaps the PKK (Communist Party of Kurdistan) who also takes foreign volunteers (a group of German bikers recently joined them and they've been blogging about their experiences lol) or the Kurdish Democratic Party (the nominal governing party of the Kurdish Regional Government) who also takes on foreign fighters. Or maybe he just really wanted to smoke some shisha and look at some old buildings like most people who go to Turkey before this all started lol.

me, chunkey, and geknaiir watched four lions together. best movie ever
mashallah brother

TF TV + politics

no

I think we can all agree there are extremists behind every cause/religion. However, extremists aren't the majority and therefore we shouldn't base our opinions on the others because of them.

not sure why it went to

yolo ISIS to fuck religion in general

but i agree

im sorry fam i thought he was talking about the past <|(:*O)

One day I want to talk to a member of ISIS and see what he was thinking when he joined it, as an Arab I am deeply disgusted by a decision like this, it's strange because almost all Muslim people I know personally are some of the most open-minded human beings I've seen, it's strange and sometimes frightening to know that only a few hundred kilometers away from me lie people convinced by their horrible and inhumane beliefs.

http://i.gyazo.com/e0e59388eb0468f74541a7ff37a377c6.png

Can't you guys think for a second and let this thread die?

this is not nice thread

Fuck I'm a muslim and this kind of shit makes me sad, a seemingly good kid throwing away his life to join a fucking terroist organization. Almost everything ISIS is preaching about regarding Islam is not true, sure some of it is true to SOME EXTENT for example you have a non-muslim friend, you can try and make the person muslim by telling him how Islam is and good words but not by force or fucking threatening to kill the person.

ISIS is a fucking terrorist organization and a disgrace to Islam, it's these kind of retarded extremist "islamic" terror organizations that make Islam look bad and everyone to believe all islams are like this, when they really aren't. I can only wish for ISIS to die a slow and painful death.

do you think mohamed spread islam with smiles and handshakes?

Also worth pointing out that there are many branches of Islam? Alawite, Shia, Sunni and a movement which you may refer to when blaming Islam for terrorism Wahhabism.
Are you even aware that Alawites observe Christmas as their holiday?

Personally I believe that religion has nothing to do with it and it's rather many years of oppression people of those countries faced from the western world which now makes them vulnerable as many of them blame west and are filled with sorrow and odium which makes them easy to steer by their leaders.
Should I mention that Iran almost became western-style democracy before CIA overthrown Mosaddegh to secure British oil money and let them regain control over what's now called BP?
It's what you get for interventionism and colonialism. Same goes for Egypt, Libya and Afghanistan.
Even what became ISIS later has been foreseen as poor and opressed in 2013 by the media.

We need to protect ourselves from terrorism, it does us harm to us and I understand it, but I also understand that it's the faith we or your parents brought over to ourselves.

EDIT: Are Iraqi, Syrian, Kurdish and Jordanian soldiers fighting IS way harder than west also terrorist? I don't get it.
And is Turkey which officially does not have a state religion really doing it's best to stop flow of money and fighters to the Islamic State?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajsNJtnUb7c

@56

Some of the Kurdish groups are officially considered, by the US, to be terrorist groups. So we use third parties to provide them with aid, since it'd technically be illegal to give direct aid to groups the US has declared to be terroristic, but giving support to their *friends* who would then give support to them, that's not illegal :D

This thread got hijacked faster than Flight 93.

As a person living in a country where muslims are the majority and as a person who has read the quran, I can safely say that islam as a religion is disgusting.

Not disgusting as in unethical or filthy, disgusting as in how hypocritical it is and how xenophobic the religion is overall. I bet none of the people posting here has read a single page of quran so they are just talking out of their ass while the only info they have is mainstream media.

Just /close thread admins pls. This doesn't belong in tftv