But that's not what tf2 is all about

All I'm saying is you can't force strict rules and whitelists on pubs to make them balanced. It has been attempted a millions times already. People will just move on to some other place. Community pubs are as close to balanced pubs as you can get. It's the players themselves that make a (un)balanced game, not the server.

I think this is because of the type of person who is playing TF2 these days. Back when the [352nd] and Team Interrobang were things, I know we all hung out in Teamspeak before Mumble was a thing and just futzed around in the community pubs but there were still people worth talking to in the server who didn't have TS/our TS info. Some members just wouldn't join TS because we were all in the server already, so they saw no point in using TS and just used VOIP.

But let's be real, miwo, do you want to associate with purely pubstars, Highlander kids, actual underage kids who shouldn't be on because they just don't have the cognitive skills yet, bronies, weeaboos, and other social rejects who dump untold hundreds monthly into item trading? You think a MGElord has anything worthwhile to say? Could you actually hold a conversation with a brony without him willingly revealing that he's been diagnosed with high-functioning autism? I know for a fact that prepubescent kids sure as hell don't have any good stories about work or other game communities. We shared stories, got kills, won rounds, sang songs (at least TI did), got into fights, made jokes, made up after those fights (sometimes), made friends, and eventually played other games with those we knew and those we met. It's all about the type of person on both sides of the conversation and that's why I loved and always talk about my time in T:A; after the Shazbowl, I met so many different and interesting people who actually gave a fuck about playing the game they enjoyed but knew when to chill the fuck out. I haven't had that experience since, even with 6s. Even this place has changed for the worse, imo.

It's not really presenting a solution to any of it but it's just how things have changed. I still think that bringing back what made TF2 pubs good is possible with effort considering some of the good people we still have here, would just require a shit-ton of effort and self-control from other people, mainly lying in mannerisms.

I wouldn't make it a 24/7 Badwater server, either.

i wish i could play on the teek nowadays without it being fun friday all the TIME

That place is still around?

Yes. I have the same experience, a lively pub community with a few hundred members. There were less cognitive failures playing tf2 then (because the game cost money), and I was younger as well.

I don't really enjoy pubbing anymore, because it seems like I've grown out of the game, and the game has grown out of me.

I'm posting with a wistful glow! -- not bitterness or a delusion that things could return to their former state.

old school vanilla tf2 pubs were great

also generation z is killing tf2

So the conversation has really shifted to this: it's less the game (with class composition and weapon balance) but the players themselves that make a pub balanced. The reason? Good communication and teamplay makes for a balanced game.

TBH this just seems like an idealisitc way of looking at it. Yeah, it'd be wonderful if we could have a set of good people occupying each and every slot on the server, with no major social issues, communicating and working as a team to make the game fun. But here's the problem: is such an expectation realistic?

Can such a server exist today (and by exist I mean be consistently full)? If so, how?

Thinking in absolutes is an awful way to go about designing something. I would say that having good people (not just in skill but personality) goes hand in hand with people agreeing to having class limits and weapon bans.

Somewhat. There's always gonna be "that guy". It's also a pub server. When the majority of people are good people, a minority can exist so long as the minority understands and respects the customs and game beliefs held by the majority. When they don't, that's what admin bus is for. When my circlejerk transitioned into pubbing NS2, we had ways of culling the employees of No Fun and Associates, LLC even without resorting to stacking kick votes.

Not as much as I'd like to believe. The biggest problem lies in having the server be full without attracting a majority of undesirables and 6s players who just want to warm up their DM and then leave after a few minutes. Another wall in this path are the circlejerks and miniscule grudges that people still bear/can't fucking talk about and work through (some being years old) that separate our community from having a relaxed but focused pub server. Just look at how quickly certain posters can bring threads to a screeching halt or a catastrophic derailment on here.

It would take people dropping lots of superiority beliefs and just letting the fuck go of statuses for an hour or what-have-you, and asking people to change because pubs are garbage is a tall order on par with asking western civilization to stop giving money to Apple.

FWIW, TF2 has had CELT voice for years now. Set sv_steam_voice 1.