best banlist na

would it be a offense to switch to get forward spawn?

Nope, that's part of the reason why it's allowed. Switching classes to forward spawn is totally fine. As long as you do it for ONLY that, it's fine.

Registration is OPEN! Visit the website to sign up!

Prizes are still TBD, but we now have access to a few servers!

Oh it's this thing. And the gunslinger is still banned for HL. No thanks.

What a fucking lame tourney. Better make sure nobody tries anything creative, nice banlist.

Oh shit I forgot to add the highlander ban list

Yeah I'm allowing gunslinger but only in HL.

The banlist is also almost identical to the ESEA Ban list, with a few changes of my own preference.

The problem with the ESEA banlist is that it isn't designed for Highlander. It's designed for 6v6.

If you want people to join a tournament that has seemingly no organization or funding, you need to draw them in with good settings and reasonable prizes. I'm not against the tournament itself, but I would wait until you've discussed the banlist with a significant group of people who might be interested, organized a prize pool, and gotten at least some servers.

Look at it this way: With no prizes (I realize you said there will be some, but you should have that figured out by now) or servers coming from you, this might as well be a hub for organizing a bunch of scrims under this ruleset for teams that enter. It would effectively mean the same thing.

Basically, if you have no servers, no sponsers, an apparently unpopular banlist, and no listed prizes, you shouldn't be surprised if your tournament gets very few entries. You look like you have no idea how much work it is to organize a tournament like this.

True. I am planning on having some sort of discussion with seasoned Highlander veterans (I just can't find any yet).

I have the prizes sorted out, but I just need to get around to see if people are interested in these prizes. I'm working on sponsors, as I've asked around. I may have eXtv helping out and I have about 2 servers thus far.

CEVO & UGC also both run with few provided servers, where the teams have to organize the matches on their own servers.

The ban list is also not "apparently unpopular" as many people have stated (on NATF2) that they like the ban list. The only real complaint has been engineer, which I can understand. I am still totally up for discussion on the Ban list. I've been planning on running a tournament for a long time, so I kind of know what to expect. I understand it's a lot of work, and everytime someone mentions something that needs to be worked on, I instantly get on it.

Thanks for your input :)

P.S.

I'm still looking for help, if anyone would like to discuss the ban list, please post here! We can discuss it here.

Alright. Well, thank you for accepting the input without treating it as an insult like many might do.

Maybe I'm just used to UGC (I play for a new team that is starting in Iron but playing well against Steel teams too), but I feel like a lot of the bans are unnecessary. I'm of the mindset that an item should never be banned unless there is a very good reason that it would harm the tournament.

For example, the Vita-saw gives one side a free uber advantage when they don't deserve it, forcing the other team to use it as well to keep the balance. That makes it bad because it only prevents medics from making their own choice on which melee to use. That's why I would ban it.

However, the Short Circuit (among other weapons which I could list if necessary) does not have such a reason. It is a difficult weapon to use, and when it is used correctly it is at most a sidegrade to the pistol. The select few engineers who are good enough with it use it to support the team and lessen the spam of the enemy, and there's nothing wrong with sacrificing large amounts of metal to do so IMO.

As far as maps go, I would suggest pro_viaduct for 6v6 and koth_ashville for highlander. viaduct plays out very well in 6s and ashville is a little too soldier-friendly to work with 2 on each team, but is fine in highlander. If you still need more maps, I'm sure the HL veterans you talk to will give you plenty of advice.

Thank you for being open to discussion, and I may be interested in this if certain concerns are addressed. The support of extv would be awesome. This looks like it has potential, but just isn't quite ready yet. Good luck!

Hehe, I'm not a rude asshole :P, as I actually want the tournament to go places. Besides, what's the point of doing a tournament if the community hates it? I should take all my input from the community. Right now, the 6v6 is pretty much a solid go, but the highlander needs some work. In UGC, the ban list was pretty bad (IMO). There were a lot of weapons bans I didn't agree with (and the lacktherof). I definitely need to speak with some highlander players to figure out what THEY want.

Yeah, I agree with, actually, all of that paragraph.

Basically, as a highlander player, here are the bans that confuse me:
Scout:
Baby Face's Blaster
Shortstop
Bonk

Soldier:
Liberty Launcher
Black Box
Rocket Jumper
Cow Mangler
Righteous Bison
Concheror
Disciplinary Action

Pyro:
Manmelter
Third Degree
Neon Annihilator

Demoman:
Loch n Load
Ali Baba's Wee Booties
Sticky Jumper
Splendid Screen
Persian Persuader

Heavy:
Natascha
Brass Beast
Tomislav
Dalokohs Bar
Family Business
Warrior's Spirit
Fists of Steel
Eviction Notice

Engineer:
Short Circuit
Gunslinger
Eureka Effect

Medic:
Solemn Vow

Sniper:
Sydney Sleeper
Hitman's Heatmaker
Cozy Camper
Cleaner's Carbine

Spy:
Enforcer
Spy-cicle

A lot of these bans seem unnecessary, and some even seem to have a negative impact on the game. Could you just explain your reasoning in a sentence or two for each of them, so I can better understand your point of view?

(Phew this is gonna be long)

Baby Face's Blaster: Just came out, was immediately banned. To be totally honest, it almost seems like a whole new playstyle of scout. It doesn't actually seem all that overpowered or broken. I could consider adding this to Highlander, though I doubt many would use it (as jumping + speed are a main thing for scout)

Shortstop: This weapon, for some reason, always seems to annoy me. It seems to do extra damage as well as the slowing down effect. Weapons should hurt players, not hinder them.

Bonk: Bonk allows Scouts to escape situations that they normally would die in, and it also can be used to body block or distract sentries without wasting the valuable Ubercharge (which the Sentry is used to force).

~Continued in next post

Liberty Launcher: The liberty launcher has that increased firing speed, but the same splash damage. It changes the way you have to dodge rockets. Although yes, it does have one less rocket, a good soldier always keeps at least 1 rocket loaded. And it only takes 2 rockets to kill most targets, anyway.

Black Box: What the hell I didn't put that there what the fuck. Running black box can be detrimental to your team, but you can still run it. I have no idea why I put that in there.

Rocket Jumper/Sticky Jumper: The two of these are used exclusively for trolling, and that should be kept to a minimum. What are you going to do with a Rocket Jumper other than jump to the other side of the map and the Market Garden the other team? If you want to do that, more risk should be involved.

Cow Mangler: The cow mangler does not require ammo, that is why it is banned. Pure and simple.

Righteous Bison: See Cow Mangler

Concheror: Hmm...I don't know. Ya know what.... UNBANNED FOR HIGHLANDER

Disciplinary Action: The disciplinary action allows certain classes to get to mid faster, without them having to sacrifice anything.

~Continued

Manmelter: The Manmelter had just come out, and that's why it was banned. To be honest, it doesn't seem that bad (in comparison to the Phlog). Although it doesn't require ammo, and that's not good.

Third Degree: Can attack the medic without actually attacking the medic

Neon Annihilator: Also just came out, actually isn't that bad. Might be a little useless to Pyros. UNBANNED IN HIGHLANDER

Loch N Load: The pipes fly really fast and do extra damage, allowing one shots on targets. Due to some weird fluke they're easier to hit with than the Direct Hit.

101 Demoknights Set: These weapons aren't so bad on their own, but together they form an overpowered set.

Wee Booties: Giving the demoman extra health and free range to sticky everything doesn't sound right to me.

Natascha: It's sort of always been banned because it was overpowered for the longest time. It's pretty much just a trolling weapon these days.

Brass Beast: The damage is really massive, and it kills sentries and players too fast.

Tomislav: Used to be OP, kind of Blows now. Still silent. Will have to consider.

Dalokohs Bar: Seems okay to use in Highlander, UNBANNED

Family Business: Not bad either, UNBANNED

Warrior's Spirit: Little weird and a bit pointless for Heavy, UNBANNED

Fists of Steel: Allows the heavy to absorb too much damage

Eviction Notice: Not bad (heavies shouldn't be running around meleeing everything anyways). UNBANNED

Short Circuit: This one is a little weird for me. In 6v6 it's really bad because HALF OF THE TEAM is a projectile weapons class. But in Highlander, there are only 2. UNBANNED?

Gunslinger: The mini sentries are easier to deal with in Highlander than 6s. UNBANNED

Eureka Effect: Really, this weapon really limits the moving buildings buff, which was a very important update for Engineers. But it can be used UNBANNED

Solemn Vow: The solemn vow kind of gives the Medic too much information.

Sydney Sleeper: The point of sniper is to quickly take down targets, something that is lost by using this weapon. Also it is mostly used as a trolling weapon.

Hitman's Heatmaker: The extra focus could make it much easier to take down large classes such as the heavy... but it requires aiming to use... I'll have to think about it.

Cozy Camper: Health Regen (although it says 1 per second, it's 2 per second when not under fire)

Cleaner's Carbine: This one is weird for me, guns that give critical hits. I'm not sure. Giving the Sniper rifle a crit could cause an instant kill body shot.

Enforcer: Does extra damage with real no draw back. It fire slower and gets no random crits. We don't deal with random crits anyways and firing slower isn't a big deal.

Spy-cicle: Silent Killer & Fireproofing

Feel free to post opinions :)

I'd say unban the fists of steel as well, in hl it's a pretty fun and interesting dynamic

but whatevs

yeah, sorry it's so long.

The shortstop's slowdown effect was removed a long time ago. It's effectively -2 clip size, +X% accuracy.

For the Cow Mangler and Righteous Bison, why does no ammo matter? The two weapons are interesting sidegrades that could be used for various new ideas, and I don't see how never running out of ammo really matters. Spam? It's not that big of a deal.

If the Demoknight weps aren't bad on their own, then just add a "no set bonuses" rule.

The brass beast doesn't seem too bad to me. I've never seen anyone use it competitively to be honest.

The Tomislav is widely recognized as a downgrade, as is the Natascha. I can understand banning them, but no one who has a chance of winning would use any of these three banned miniguns anyway.

In my experience (not exactly a good sniper though), the Cleaner's Carbine does not give enough crits to justify the dps nerf. You have time for one crit shot, or maybe two if you just spam M1 as fast as possible.

The Cozy Camper doesn't have 2hp per second regen. It just shows +2hp every two seconds. I really don't think that's a big deal, because anyone who tries to kill a sniper would kill him long before the regen helped much. Also, the slowdown effect really makes this weapon difficult to use.

The Enforcer is outclassed by the Ambassador IMO. I wouldn't worry about the Enforcer at all compared to it.

The Spy-cicle is not a silent killer. The freezing sound is just as loud as a stabbing sound, and I always hear it from a mile away. Besides, when has silent killing ever prevented comms from giving them away? The Fireproofing is a long debated topic. IMO the dead ringer and spy-cicle let a spy live forever, but never actually do anything. A stock knife+watch combo is much more effective on most maps (Many Plat-level spies will agree. The only exception is probably StabbyStabby and his followers, but he's not exactly the sharpest spy around.)

Thank you for reconsidering the weapons you unbanned, this list is looking pretty good. On the ones I didn't reply to, you convinced me that the ban is ok.

Man I've been out of weapon stuff for a long time. So I guess the shortstop is okay, Righteous Bison (I'm pretty sure) penetrates multiple targets, Gonna ban Persian Persuader, allow Brass Beast, tomislav, cleaner's carbine, cozy camper, and spi cicle.

Thanks. :)

I'll talk to my team and see if they might be interested.

Alright, sounds good.

I've updated the highlander list on the website.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, I remember that the shortstop's slow was removed within a day or two, and the stat description never was changed.

Signups are still open!

don't allow the spycicle, the fireproofing alone is gamebreaking in its own right, it basically gives over-aggressive spies an extra get out of jail free card vs pyros. the dead ringer is balanced well enough, they don't need an extra, class-specific "feign" designed to counter a counter, that they can use without the downside of giving up liberal cloak usage.

aside from that the banlist looks totally solid (though I would enjoy gas jockey and medieval medic being allowed), gj.

Aside from the wrangler/vitasaw, there are very few that really break the game. Check the UGC ban list and add those. Most of them are all geared towards items that dont function when a Spy disguises them or lower FPS. Otherwise, most of these items wont be used anyways.

Have any teams signed up?
Is there a set date?

I couldnt see any information regarding the tournament from the forum without creating an account other than ban list. Any rules?

I'll have to make things public, my bad.

The rules are basically regarding signups and stuff. Nothing really too important. The set date is unconfirmed, but it is around the time of ESEA LAN, and only 1 team has officially signed up :( We need MORE REGISTRATIONS! So please, tell people!

UPDATE: I have gained access to my own server, which will be available to any user during the Tournament.

Still accepting registrations!