- (To my knowledge) There has been no initial explanation from comp.tf for the new advertisements
- If for some reason it is being considered, please do not feature this on backcap
Hi, I’m ‘Garlic’ on comp.tf and the wiki’s 5th top contributor. Over the past 10 days comp.tf was locked for edits as it was “transferring server”, but when I logged on today the first thing I noticed were 3 new AdSense advertisements:
http://imgur.com/3LXF19G.jpg
The first ad replaces the old EVL Gaming advert on the left sidebar, however the 2 new adverts are placed at the tops and bottoms of each and every comp.tf page.
The main problem with these ads is their placement on the page; specifically the topmost advertisement at the top of every page hovering directly below the page title (example: [1]). Having “Dating Women from China: MAKE YOUR EASTERN DREAMS COME TRUE” or alternatively a picture of one of the MyLittlePony characters giving birth to a miniature version of itself as the first thing a user reads, aside from it being obnoxious and obstructive, I feel as though really detracts from the professionalism of the site and personally for me it is rather disappointing (and yes those are real examples: [2] and [3]). A comparable example to having an advertisement as the first thing readable object on a webpage would be this ([4]) block of text at the top of every page on Wikipedia.org.
I understand if these additional advertisements are needed to uphold the costs of servers, the problem is not the addition of adverts but their placement and to a degree the content of the advert. I am more than willing to co-operate with Kaneco (founder of comp.tf) to make sure these ads better complement the website either by moving them to different areas or by other means. I also understand that this is Kaneco’s website and he is free to add as many advertisements in whichever places he wants, but I am saying this not for a ‘personal disapproval/annoyance’ of the changes but rather for the betterment of comp.tf so it can avoid the problems outlined above and retain its professionalism as one of the most important websites for the Competitive TF2 Community.
Though the inclusion of 3 advertisements can seem very minuscule and unimportant, I hope you can understand for yourself how much these advertisements, through their obstructive placement and irrelevant content, are impacting the image of comp.tf. My goal is obviously to change how these advertisements are being implemented to comp.tf for the good of the site, if you share this opinion please be vocal by replying or upvoting; thank you. In some cases I hope I have gone over the top and this is something like a trial period and the ads are not permanent, but the last thing I want to see is these advertisements discouraging someone from contributing to the comp.tf wikipedia.
Edit: Fixing links
[list]
[*] (To my knowledge) There has been no initial explanation from comp.tf for the new advertisements
[*] If for some reason it is being considered, please do not feature this on [i]backcap[/i]
[/list]
Hi, I’m ‘Garlic’ on comp.tf and the wiki’s 5th top contributor. Over the past 10 days comp.tf was locked for edits as it was “transferring server”, but when I logged on today the first thing I noticed were [b]3 new AdSense advertisements[/b]:
[img]http://imgur.com/3LXF19G.jpg[/img]
The first ad replaces the old EVL Gaming advert on the left sidebar, however the 2 new adverts are placed at the tops and bottoms of each and every comp.tf page.
The main problem with these ads is their placement on the page; specifically the topmost advertisement at the top of every page hovering directly below the page title (example: [url=http://imgur.com/gH1zj6R.jpg][1][/url]). Having “[b]Dating Women from China: MAKE YOUR EASTERN DREAMS COME TRUE[/b]” or alternatively a picture of one of the [b]MyLittlePony characters giving birth to a miniature version of itself[/b] as the first thing a user reads, aside from it being obnoxious and obstructive, I feel as though really detracts from the professionalism of the site and personally for me it is rather disappointing (and yes those are real examples: [url=http://i.imgur.com/4JREJpT.png][2][/url] and [url=http://i.imgur.com/U7O6T6E.png][3][/url]). A comparable example to having an advertisement as the first thing readable object on a webpage would be this ([url=http://i.imgur.com/YlfqbqQ.png][4][/url]) block of text at the top of every page on Wikipedia.org.
I understand if these additional advertisements are needed to uphold the costs of servers, the problem is not the addition of adverts but their placement and to a degree the content of the advert. I am more than willing to co-operate with Kaneco (founder of comp.tf) to make sure these ads better complement the website either by moving them to different areas or by other means. I also understand that this is Kaneco’s website and he is free to add as many advertisements in whichever places he wants, but I am saying this not for a ‘personal disapproval/annoyance’ of the changes but rather for the betterment of comp.tf so it can avoid the problems outlined above and retain its professionalism as one of the most important websites for the Competitive TF2 Community.
Though the inclusion of 3 advertisements can seem very minuscule and unimportant, I hope you can understand for yourself how much these advertisements, through their obstructive placement and irrelevant content, are impacting the image of comp.tf. My goal is obviously to change how these advertisements are being implemented to comp.tf for the good of the site, if you share this opinion please be vocal by replying or upvoting; thank you. In some cases I hope I have gone over the top and this is something like a trial period and the ads are not permanent, but the last thing I want to see is these advertisements discouraging someone from contributing to the comp.tf wikipedia.
Edit: Fixing links
Dating Women from China: MAKE YOUR EASTERN DREAMS COME TRUE
[b]Dating Women from China: MAKE YOUR EASTERN DREAMS COME TRUE[/b]
If you are accessing a website for free, you are the product.
If you are accessing a website for free, you are the product.
Backcap is completely separate from Comp.tf FYI
Backcap is completely separate from Comp.tf FYI
GetawhaleBackcap is completely separate from Comp.tf FYI
Yes I know. Often TFTV threads are featured in the "Tomfoolery Hub" section of the show and I'd rather this not be.
[quote=Getawhale]Backcap is completely separate from Comp.tf FYI[/quote]
Yes I know. Often TFTV threads are featured in the "Tomfoolery Hub" section of the show and I'd rather this not be.
you can rent a server big enough to host a wiki for $5/month or less and the domain is $12/year
there's absolutely no need for these ads
you can rent a server big enough to host a wiki for $5/month or less and the domain is $12/year
there's absolutely no need for these ads
mikejsyou can rent a server big enough to host a wiki for $5/month or less and the domain is $12/year
there's absolutely no need for these ads
he also doesn't need to host the website at all
[quote=mikejs]you can rent a server big enough to host a wiki for $5/month or less and the domain is $12/year
there's absolutely no need for these ads[/quote]
he also doesn't need to host the website at all
I don't think ads are that big a deal, as long as they don't get in the way of the content being viewed. I try to make sure I turn adblock off for TF2 community sites, but if that's the case for comp.tf, they're coming off.
The ad on the left is fine, because it's unobtrusive. But the other two on the content are just awful, remove that shit.
I don't think ads are that big a deal, as long as they don't get in the way of the content being viewed. I try to make sure I turn adblock off for TF2 community sites, but if that's the case for comp.tf, they're coming off.
The ad on the left is fine, because it's unobtrusive. But the other two on the content are just awful, remove that shit.
Geel9mikejsyou can rent a server big enough to host a wiki for $5/month or less and the domain is $12/year
there's absolutely no need for these ads
he also doesn't need to host the website at all
i agree but inserting ads (which will never earn enough to pay for the time it took to add them in the first place) isn't going to make it worth it
[quote=Geel9][quote=mikejs]you can rent a server big enough to host a wiki for $5/month or less and the domain is $12/year
there's absolutely no need for these ads[/quote]
he also doesn't need to host the website at all[/quote]
i agree but inserting ads (which will never earn enough to pay for the time it took to add them in the first place) isn't going to make it worth it
mikejsyou can rent a server big enough to host a wiki for $5/month or less and the domain is $12/year
there's absolutely no need for these ads
no, you can rent a server big enough to host a wiki with little to no bandwidth whatsoever for five dollars a month
the actual issue you can have here is placement (especially with that top one, pls move that to above all the other stuff at least), and online ads themselves have a wholly questionable financial future (over a third of all ad clicks online are from bots, and there's a chance the entire damn industry is imploding soon), but don't downplay how much shit can cost, especially when it ignores that you're not just paying for a server, you're also paying for all the effort you put into what's contained within it, which in a normal-ass job results in at least some money
[quote=mikejs]you can rent a server big enough to host a wiki for $5/month or less and the domain is $12/year
there's absolutely no need for these ads[/quote]
no, you can rent a server big enough to host a wiki with little to no bandwidth whatsoever for five dollars a month
the actual issue you can have here is placement (especially with that top one, pls move that to above all the other stuff at least), and online ads themselves have a wholly questionable financial future ([url=http://fortune.com/2015/07/01/online-advertising-fraud/]over a third of all ad clicks online are from bots[/url], and [url=http://idlewords.com/2015/11/the_advertising_bubble.htm]there's a chance the entire damn industry is imploding soon[/url]), but don't downplay how much shit can cost, especially when it ignores that you're not just paying for a server, you're also paying for all the effort you put into what's contained within it, which in a normal-ass job results in at least some money
mikejsGeel9mikejsyou can rent a server big enough to host a wiki for $5/month or less and the domain is $12/year
there's absolutely no need for these ads
he also doesn't need to host the website at all
i agree but inserting ads (which will never earn enough to pay for the time it took to add them in the first place) isn't going to make it worth it
So would you like to volunteer to pay for this server?
[quote=mikejs][quote=Geel9][quote=mikejs]you can rent a server big enough to host a wiki for $5/month or less and the domain is $12/year
there's absolutely no need for these ads[/quote]
he also doesn't need to host the website at all[/quote]
i agree but inserting ads (which will never earn enough to pay for the time it took to add them in the first place) isn't going to make it worth it[/quote]
So would you like to volunteer to pay for this server?
Are the adverts not based on your search history? I don't know about you guys but I'm just getting adverts for clothing companies and car auctions, which completely makes sense in my case...
Are the adverts not based on your search history? I don't know about you guys but I'm just getting adverts for clothing companies and car auctions, which completely makes sense in my case...
JojomikejsGeel9mikejsyou can rent a server big enough to host a wiki for $5/month or less and the domain is $12/year
there's absolutely no need for these ads
he also doesn't need to host the website at all
i agree but inserting ads (which will never earn enough to pay for the time it took to add them in the first place) isn't going to make it worth it
So would you like to volunteer to pay for this server?
I'll be more than happy to. Who can I talk to?
[quote=Jojo][quote=mikejs][quote=Geel9][quote=mikejs]you can rent a server big enough to host a wiki for $5/month or less and the domain is $12/year
there's absolutely no need for these ads[/quote]
he also doesn't need to host the website at all[/quote]
i agree but inserting ads (which will never earn enough to pay for the time it took to add them in the first place) isn't going to make it worth it[/quote]
So would you like to volunteer to pay for this server?[/quote]
I'll be more than happy to. Who can I talk to?
HobNobsAre the adverts not based on your search history? I don't know about you guys but I'm just getting adverts for clothing companies and car auctions, which completely makes sense in my case...
unless you explicitly tell google otherwise (which you can do over yonder, btw), yes
[quote=HobNobs]Are the adverts not based on your search history? I don't know about you guys but I'm just getting adverts for clothing companies and car auctions, which completely makes sense in my case...[/quote]
unless you explicitly tell google otherwise ([url=https://www.google.com/settings/u/0/ads/authenticated]which you can do over yonder, btw[/url]), yes
tragicJojoSo would you like to volunteer to pay for this server?
I'll be more than happy to. Who can I talk to?
I'm also interested.
[quote=tragic][quote=Jojo]
So would you like to volunteer to pay for this server?[/quote]
I'll be more than happy to. Who can I talk to?[/quote]
I'm also interested.
I knew Kaneco made a Patreon (or whatever it's called), if now we are seeing ads on comp.tf I think he didn't manage to gather enough money to keep the site up on its own.
I knew Kaneco made a Patreon (or whatever it's called), if now we are seeing ads on comp.tf I think he didn't manage to gather enough money to keep the site up on its own.
cirloI knew Kaneco made a Patreon (or whatever it's called), if now we are seeing ads on comp.tf I think he didn't manage to gather enough money to keep the site up on its own.
A patreon with a ceiling of $6 a month? I can't imagine that not being met.
[quote=cirlo]I knew Kaneco made a Patreon (or whatever it's called), if now we are seeing ads on comp.tf I think he didn't manage to gather enough money to keep the site up on its own.[/quote] A patreon with a ceiling of $6 a month? I can't imagine that not being met.
The raw cost of hosting servers is not necessarily a fair financial goal.
The raw cost of hosting servers is not necessarily a fair financial goal.
not everyone goes into supporting a community with personal profit in mind the entire time lol
not everyone goes into supporting a community with personal profit in mind the entire time lol
tragicI'll be more than happy to. Who can I talk to?
CrasianI'm also interested.
I think the best way to donate to the wiki would be to contact the owner Kaneco through his Steam. I know omnibombulator, KevinIsPwn and Teapot have donated in the past, so maybe you could ask them too.
[quote=tragic]
I'll be more than happy to. Who can I talk to?[/quote]
[quote=Crasian]
I'm also interested.[/quote]
I think the best way to donate to the wiki would be to contact the owner Kaneco through his [url=http://steamcommunity.com/id/Kaneco]Steam[/url]. I know omnibombulator, KevinIsPwn and Teapot have donated in the past, so maybe you could ask them too.
Also:
I really doubt that these ads are being used for personal gain; this would mean Kaneco is profiting from the edits/additions from thousands of other contributors, which seems wrong.
Also:
I really doubt that these ads are being used for personal gain; this would mean Kaneco is profiting from the edits/additions from thousands of other contributors, which seems wrong.
Foxnot everyone goes into supporting a community with personal profit in mind the entire time lol
Speaking as someone who has sunk ridiculous time into community stuff for nothing, if the comp scene were big enough to make projects significantly profitable there would be far better facilities because people would be able to make building and maintaining them their jobs. The trading scene has a lot of long term high quality services because they are profitable.
However I don't think this will produce any kind of significant cash for comp.tf, the ads just won't produce high value clicks.
[quote=Fox]not everyone goes into supporting a community with personal profit in mind the entire time lol[/quote]
Speaking as someone who has sunk ridiculous time into community stuff for nothing, if the comp scene were big enough to make projects significantly profitable there would be far better facilities because people would be able to make building and maintaining them their jobs. The trading scene has a lot of long term high quality services because they are profitable.
However I don't think this will produce any kind of significant cash for comp.tf, the ads just won't produce high value clicks.
Ok ok ok... Lots of drama... I'll try to address these issues and give a bit of context to the situation.
First of all I launched my patreon a few weeks ago because I was simply not able to juggle between IRL responsabilities which included a part time job and university with managing the site and the youtube channel and I wanted if possible pump out more tf2 content in a sustainable way. The reception to the campaign was decent but the overall outcome wasn't.
Also, before you start spreading rumors with little or no information no you can't host the wiki on a 5$/month host, well most the time it will do decently but in high traffic events like challengers cup, lan finals, and other cups/events that is not enough nor a sustainable situation. Insomnia lans and other events have brought more than 300 concurrent users to the wiki at times and there's no way it can handle that load on a shitty $5 shared hosting. Just to give an idea, before this insomnia the site was already in a 2GB ram VPS and we actually had to move it to an upgraded VPS server (courtesy of EVL) for the week of insomnia lan because not even that VPS could handle the traffic.
I hosted the site for more than 1 year paying out of pocket back when it started, then after that we were lucky to get in contact with Hypernia (who were also hosting ETF2L) through Canfo and they offered us a sponsorship which unfortunately was terminated with very little warning early this year after some internal restructuring on their part which included dropping all sponsored projects (including ETF2L). We had to move after that and EVL and a couple generous people stepped up with resources and donations.
Unfortunately last month I was informed by EVL's Jeer that our partnership wasn't working out and they had to either downscale our host (which would leave the site very vulnerable in high traffic events), or move out by the end of November. By the way this is a completely understandable decision on their part and I dont blame them in the least, I actually am very thankful for all the help Jeer provided me over all these months. Point is, I had to make a decision by the end of November.
At the same time I actually got in contact and reached out to liquipedia (thanks to tsc for linking me a tweet) for the possible merge of a tf2 wiki. I had very interesting talks with the liquipedia head admins and they were very receptive about merging our wiki, unfortunately, not all conditions were ideal and we were not able finalize it in time by the end of November (it is still pending tho and I haven't made a full decision on that).
Anyway, after some talks with ffc (which by the way is the most amazing person ever and has been the heart and soul of the wiki lately) and some close tf2 friends I decided to buy a VPS for the month of December and January and test if the wiki would be financially sustainable with ads, before a possible merge with liquipedia (because you know, that merge would include ads to the wiki anyway).
Through last week I've been swamped with IRL stuff and I also had to set up the host move (which I had a lot of problems with corrupted backups, setting up the vps, etc...) hence why the wiki was locked for 1 week. If you check my steam profile I haven't actually played tf2 in like 2 weeks, I dont think in the last 3 years I've been this long without playing the game. Last thing I opened on steam was SFM and was to work on a comp.tf video.
So, Im currently testing ads on the wiki to test how it works and how it performs, nothings permanent, it's just that yesterday I was in a hurry for a friends birthday and I ended up setting up the ads you see currently without much afterthought, my jacket actually got stolen with my home keys later on and I just got home to this shitstorm, but I'm looking at the feedback and I promise I'll look into it and adapt. My intention is to have similar ad placement than liquipedia to test how it performs but I wasn't able to get it done yesterday on time (I also think they might have a custom inhouse extension for that which I couldn't find anywhere).
If you wanna help out I'm also selling my backpack, and that should help covering a bunch of server costs (and a new jacket ;___;) My life changed drastically this semester and I have currently very little time for the game right now and if it wasn't for the wiki and the youtube channel or the i55 fragmovie (which I still intend on doing) I would have probably just quit.
Ok ok ok... Lots of drama... I'll try to address these issues and give a bit of context to the situation.
First of all I launched my patreon a few weeks ago because I was simply not able to juggle between IRL responsabilities which included a part time job and university with managing the site and the youtube channel and I wanted if possible pump out more tf2 content in a sustainable way. The reception to the campaign was decent but the overall outcome wasn't.
Also, before you start spreading rumors with little or no information no you can't host the wiki on a 5$/month host, well most the time it will do decently but in high traffic events like challengers cup, lan finals, and other cups/events that is not enough nor a sustainable situation. Insomnia lans and other events have brought more than 300 concurrent users to the wiki at times and there's no way it can handle that load on a shitty $5 shared hosting. Just to give an idea, before this insomnia the site was already in a 2GB ram VPS and we actually had to move it to an upgraded VPS server (courtesy of EVL) for the week of insomnia lan because not even that VPS could handle the traffic.
I hosted the site for more than 1 year paying out of pocket back when it started, then after that we were lucky to get in contact with Hypernia (who were also hosting ETF2L) through Canfo and they offered us a sponsorship which unfortunately was terminated with very little warning early this year after some internal restructuring on their part which included dropping all sponsored projects (including ETF2L). We had to move after that and EVL and a couple generous people stepped up with resources and donations.
Unfortunately last month I was informed by EVL's Jeer that our partnership wasn't working out and they had to either downscale our host (which would leave the site very vulnerable in high traffic events), or move out by the end of November. By the way this is a completely understandable decision on their part and I dont blame them in the least, I actually am very thankful for all the help Jeer provided me over all these months. Point is, I had to make a decision by the end of November.
At the same time I actually got in contact and reached out to liquipedia (thanks to tsc for linking me a tweet) for the possible merge of a tf2 wiki. I had very interesting talks with the liquipedia head admins and they were very receptive about merging our wiki, unfortunately, not all conditions were ideal and we were not able finalize it in time by the end of November (it is still pending tho and I haven't made a full decision on that).
Anyway, after some talks with ffc (which by the way is the most amazing person ever and has been the heart and soul of the wiki lately) and some close tf2 friends I decided to buy a VPS for the month of December and January and test if the wiki would be financially sustainable with ads, before a possible merge with liquipedia (because you know, that merge would include ads to the wiki anyway).
Through last week I've been swamped with IRL stuff and I also had to set up the host move (which I had a lot of problems with corrupted backups, setting up the vps, etc...) hence why the wiki was locked for 1 week. If you check my steam profile I haven't actually played tf2 in like 2 weeks, I dont think in the last 3 years I've been this long without playing the game. Last thing I opened on steam was SFM and was to work on a comp.tf video.
So, Im currently testing ads on the wiki to test how it works and how it performs, nothings permanent, it's just that yesterday I was in a hurry for a friends birthday and I ended up setting up the ads you see currently without much afterthought, my jacket actually got stolen with my home keys later on and I just got home to this shitstorm, but I'm looking at the feedback and I promise I'll look into it and adapt. My intention is to have similar ad placement than liquipedia to test how it performs but I wasn't able to get it done yesterday on time (I also think they might have a custom inhouse extension for that which I couldn't find anywhere).
If you wanna help out I'm also [url=http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/167059-TF2-Backpack-450-value]selling my backpack[/url], and that should help covering a bunch of server costs (and a new jacket ;___;) My life changed drastically this semester and I have currently very little time for the game right now and if it wasn't for the wiki and the youtube channel or the i55 fragmovie (which I still intend on doing) I would have probably just quit.
I see a possible merge with liquipedia as a really great news. It shows everyone outside of tf2 (but still in the comp scene) that there's us too!
(Anyway those ads doesn't bother me at all... I fully understand the need of using them)
I see a possible merge with liquipedia as a really great news. It shows everyone outside of tf2 (but still in the comp scene) that there's us too!
(Anyway those ads doesn't bother me at all... I fully understand the need of using them)
Having ads on the site is by no means a bad thing, just the positioning of them is bad. Sort that out and no one will complain about it. Good job with everything thus far though, Kaneco.
Having ads on the site is by no means a bad thing, just the positioning of them is bad. Sort that out and no one will complain about it. Good job with everything thus far though, Kaneco.
how much does it cost each month to host
how much does it cost each month to host
Thank you all for the offers, really appreciate it, but I have already bought host for 2 months and my intention now is to test how sustainable it can be with ads. So I will stay here at least for the period I have paid up and then I'll think better on what to do (merge with liquipedia, move to another host, or stay on the same host). Of course I also appreciate if you can unblock the wiki on your adblocker (if you use one).
I've also tweaked ad placement so they appear before the page title and after the page content, avoiding the ugly placement before which was also a bit misleading mixed within the content. It's now very similar to liquipedia placement.
I've also tweaked ad types and most if not all dating ads should be disabled for now.
Just need to adapt the old infobox templates so they can support ads below them like I did to the new player and team infoboxes and I want to change the mainpage top ad to integrate inside the banner as well as it doesnt look good aesthetically right now., I'll look into it when I have some time again.
Thank you all for the offers, really appreciate it, but I have already bought host for 2 months and my intention now is to test how sustainable it can be with ads. So I will stay here at least for the period I have paid up and then I'll think better on what to do (merge with liquipedia, move to another host, or stay on the same host). Of course I also appreciate if you can unblock the wiki on your adblocker (if you use one).
I've also tweaked ad placement so they appear before the page title and after the page content, avoiding the ugly placement before which was also a bit misleading mixed within the content. It's now very similar to liquipedia placement.
I've also tweaked ad types and most if not all dating ads should be disabled for now.
Just need to adapt the old infobox templates so they can support ads below them like I did to the new player and team infoboxes and I want to change the mainpage top ad to integrate inside the banner as well as it doesnt look good aesthetically right now., I'll look into it when I have some time again.
Thanks so much for being so receptive Kaneco, the new ad placements look a lot more fitting/seamless.
About your first post, it seems like you've got a shitload on your plate. This community is so responsive; hell, in this thread alone two people have already put their hand up to donate. I'm sure there are countless people that could help you (and the wiki) out if you just ask.
Thank you for everything you've done for comp.tf and the community so far, it's gonna be sad if you leave.
Thanks so much for being so receptive Kaneco, the new ad placements look a lot more fitting/seamless.
About your first post, it seems like you've got a shitload on your plate. This community is so responsive; hell, in this thread alone two people have already put their hand up to donate. I'm sure there are countless people that could help you (and the wiki) out if you just ask.
Thank you for everything you've done for comp.tf and the community so far, it's gonna be sad if you leave.