Not true.

Matchmaking would benefit from using the current 6v6 meta as it has been pretty much proven to be the best and most balanced way to play the gamemode. Having class limits at 1 will have a little experimentation at the start but then there would become a meta just like in 6v6. Have certain classes role out to mid, have certain classes defend and push last.

I don't know but you posted an ignorant tweet. I don't mean to insult you but I want you to understand that you don't have that much knowledge of how 6v6 works. I don't mean to say it in a mean way but it's true.

I think people are mad that you posted a very ignorant opinion to your fans, who will believe anything you say. Sorry if I offended you though.

Long ago, when I was a young man first starting out in the land of six verses six Team Fortress Two. I would play Lobbies on the popular website Tf2lobby.com. You would play full time spy in half of my lobbies and ruin the fun for everyone, I view this as an unforgivable offense and I hope you go fukc yoursefl youf ckuign dixk.

Again, I was making a suggestion for *match making*, not esea. I know just as much about that as anyone. The point is I want something fresh and more inclusive...fun for people that 6's doesn't appeal to in its current rigid form; we already have 6's.

1) it's still fresh because roamer and demo fast rollouts are cool, every class is mobile, you need a medic, you have a flank, and you need a combo. I can't think of any class that can permanently replace the composition already there without impacting the game negatively. many maps such as sunshine process etc are designed with normal 6s in mind. uif you ran different class composition you would take away the midfight meta, can you imagine one team showing up to mid super early and the other coming after mid is half capped because pyro spy and sniper are just slower classes? also you're never going to be able to expect what the other team is running, and that would bascally make scrimming pointless since fuck knows who's going to run what. and even then the meta will develop again and people will realize that the current meta works best, plus prolander was already tried and failed.

it's a stupid comparison but in really old cs people had limits on how many guns you could run like you weren't allowed to run 4xAK or whatever and then valve made MM without the restrictions and there's a new meta and it's "stale" again. it's not a perfect analogy but a new meta will evolve and people like you will say it's stale again. i'm not really sure if this makes sense as a comparison, though.

2) there's nothing stopping people from running whatever classes they want in MM, I mean it's already goofy enough that adding class limits might be ok but people are going to get mad that they can't play whatever class that they want and abandon which causes the whole lobby to end.

So in order to be inclusive to everyone, you restrict classes so that if someone else joined soldier I can't play it anymore.

Why in the hell do you call 6s rigid while your suggestion is to apply more restriction than the current 6s scene does?

Why does Tf2lobby.com have a takedown notice from the department of homeland security?

How is class limit 1 less stale than class limit 2 lol

it think it was a joke or something

the main point that you're missing though is that you can play full-time pyro/spy/engie/heavy whatever in 6v6. But there's a reason that people don't. FORCING people to use at least two of these classes is more restrictive.

also congrats on being added to the list of reasons that 6s players think highlander is a joke.

First of all, in hl you mainly play around the sniper, and usually that is the meta. If your team has the better sniper, you have a huge advantage. Its boring, one could say it is "Stale" , it is literally bodyguarding your sniper to get picks so that you can push. In 6s, all classes are contributing and the way the game is played alternates depending on the situation. For example, if you wanted to push into the enemy team, you uber in a scout and he gets aggressive and gets frags. However, if you are holding last the scout stays passive and spams, waiting for an opportunity to get a pick. You are never doing the same thing over and over again unless it is a lopsided match. It is the complete opposite in hl, you dont change your style that much, you are always tanking the sniper hoping he gets a pick. If you need to push up, you wait for your sniper to get a pick. If you are holding last, you wait for your sniper to get picks. IMO sixes is much fresher then hl.

maybe this would have fit better

http://3.images.southparkstudios.com/blogs/southparkstudios.com/files/2014/04/0803-montage.jpg?quality=0.8

edit: really guys? maybe for those of you who don't understand the context, you might need a little backstory:

the entire episode was about how somebody intentionally handicapped themselves in order to compete with people who weren't up to snuff, and then definitively said that they were better because they won

how does that not perfectly relate to the situation

Man, this thread got big in a hurry. The guy posted his opinion; no need to trash him for it. Everyone has an opinion. Here's mine.

TF2 is 8 years old. You will never again see anything that is "fresh". Slight evolutions based around new items as they appear, maybe, but competitive 6v6 will not have a different 'standard rollout composition' unless leagues modify their rules heavily or one of the core classes gets nerfed into the dirt. Every composition has been tried. You think 2/2/1/1 is stale and that's because it is. 1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1 in highlander is stale as well. You limit classes to 1 in matchmaking and you'll see different compositions, you are correct. What you'll see is some really boring-to-watch rollouts of a scout, a heavy, a pyro, a soldier, a demo, and a medic where your mid fights will come down to 'who couldn't focus the heavy fast enough' or 'which pyro got a reflect earlier'. We've all seen what a spy is capable of doing situationally in 6v6. The same for a sniper. On the other hand, we've all seen what running one of them too long does. I'm sorry, but not only do I not want to watch full time heavies, pyros, spies, and engineers, I sure as hell wouldn't want to play that game.

The reason you see a core class composition is because other things have been tried and this one is quite literally the best in terms of mobility and skill ceilings while simultaneously not grinding the game to a complete halt (short of uber standoffs, which would exist with any composition).

Also, while I'm thinking about it, let's stop overusing the prefix 'meta' to describe everything anyone does. It's a silly prefix (not even a word by itself) that has been overused to the point of meaninglessness. :-O

I get what you're trying to say here, but I'd disagree in that you don't often see hitscan classes spamming entrances like in cs. If you're holding badlands last it's not like you're going to try to spam scattergun shots at lower left like a soldier if you don't see anyone peeking it. There is such a thing as spamming to ruin crit heals but as I understand it a scouts main job is just to watch entrances not to spam.

In general I think that implementing a 6s class limit would be helpful for mm, if nothing else just to prevent people from running shit like two medic/demo/scout combos

Stabby, with all due respect, what you don't get is that there is absolutely nothing stopping people from running different class combinations. The reason 2 scouts 2 soldiers demo med is the meta isn't because of rigidity or being forced into it, it's because that's genuinely the most effective.

Feel free to play spy all the time in 6s, but don't be surprised when your team loses every game... even if there were limits of 1 per class.

i dont think there should be a 6s class limit but there definitely should be some limit. class limit of 2 each would be a reasonable compromise

cmon

whoa dude lets not go that far

There absolutely is plenty stopping people from running different class combinations.

I was on a CEVO team that ran fulltime pyro/heavy/spy/scout/demo/medic...and it worked--very well even, we didn't lose a round. Problem was: people got really really angry. Nasty forum posts, accusations of "trolling", and I'm not sure a single team we played in neither scrims nor matches stuck around till the end; they just quit. We literally couldn't play, despite (or because) the experimental composition was effective.

Ya got me on that one :d

Your argument is literally "gimp the total skill ceiling available to a team to create 'variety'"

Stop using your stomping in CEVO as an example it holds little weight to us

It worked because you were playing against bad players/teams most likely. There is no way that would work against good teams otherwise you would see it in ESEA. There is nothing stopping people from running that set up you listed other than the fact that it is bad most of the time.

This is like when Star ran Demoknight in Open or IM what ever it was, it worked because he was carried by 1 Invite player and 2-ex invite players. If Demoknight was more effective than Demoman than you would see top level teams like Ronin, 20b and Froyotech using it

Did you ever actually come up against good players?

I brought it up to illustrate the point that there is indeed major barriers to creativity and experimentation in class composition. Show me an invite team that has run something other than the old standard + a dash of offclassing, please.

havent you been talking about matchmaking and not esea for the entirety of this thread? people aren't going to refuse to play you in matchmaking like they would in a scrim

that doesnt happen because the standard is the most efficient (as many people have said)

what are you not getting here stabby

The tweet was about match making. This thread has become about both 6's and match making.

And yes, true. Your teammates will probably yell at you for "off-classing" at higher rankings and I just kinda fear due to the "it's the best class composition" dogma will hamper what MM could be, though. I dunno man, I think I'm about done here. Kinda shocked a tweet turned into this. It was 4am and I had an idea...I guess it was at least conversation-inducing.

People run the current set up because it is the most effective and efficient for winning. The 2 Scouts, 2 Soldiers, 1 Demo and 1 Medic didn't just appear out of thin air one day.

There is literally nothing stopping players from running 2 Snipers, 1 Spy, 1 Pyro, a Heavy and a Engineer.

the actual reason we weren't scrimming your team is because you were playing in a way that wasn't conducive for practice

open teams want to get better, not get stomped by Invite players using strats that no one else does

I think teams refusing to play you prevents players from playing.

True, my bad. But overall that is not the point :P