eeeNo one is going to say "don't invest" that's dumb. Financial analysts were aware that the market would eventually collapse but they were trying to make money and support it as long as possible, so of course they're not going to publicly mention the likelihood of a global recession. They got nobel prizes because the net benefit of propping up housing loans was still positive. People made money, people had homes, and overall, the recession didn't outpace the money everyone made.
That's different than now because they're looking at an event that hurts their bottom line and flat out saying its a bad idea.
The anti-intellectualism is kind of appalling in that quote. If people are so tired of experts, they should remove all licensing for things like lawyers and doctors then.
The problem with that analysis is that it's in direct contradiction of the nature of the products that were at fault. Packaging toxic debts in a way to make them acceptably risk free is the very antithesis of the idea that you'll have overall grown your economies even if the bubble bursts, which would be an incredible risk. They were rated AAA, that's equivalent to gold, it's the same as money. Greek debt was rated AAA. There was no enjoying the party until the bubble burst, all these international bodies and firms are complicit in that. Of course you say don't invest if they're not rated AAA, that's what the ratings are for. It's just a total failure of the bodies who were charged with rating risk. The nobel prize winners watched the funds that pioneered their techniques go bust. I don't really want to argue about it but these weren't ordinary investment decisions, they were either a criminal con (which is why a load of US bankers landed in jail) or total incompetence.
These specifics don't run through the vast majority of voter's minds of course - I know I am weird for knowing about them - but the background noise and the fact that the average lower income voter has seen their living standards continue to decline make it easy to dismiss their advice now. "Everybody knows" that they're just self serving arseholes.
To put the anti-intellectualism in context, Johnson and Gove both have a background in journalism or effectively propaganda. They've gone into politics and are exceptionally cynical propagandists, and that's just an example of it. There wasn't a single voice they wouldn't smear in the most idiotic terms - Obama was against Britain because one of his ancestors is Kenyan and there's imperial history there. Gove is the mouthpiece of Lord Rothermere who hates Cameron. Their motives are mostly about Tory infighting and they're fucking the country while they're doing it.
[quote=eee]No one is going to say "don't invest" that's dumb. Financial analysts were aware that the market would eventually collapse but they were trying to make money and support it as long as possible, so of course they're not going to publicly mention the likelihood of a global recession. They got nobel prizes because the net benefit of propping up housing loans was still positive. People made money, people had homes, and overall, the recession didn't outpace the money everyone made.
That's different than now because they're looking at an event that hurts their bottom line and flat out saying its a bad idea.
The anti-intellectualism is kind of appalling in that quote. If people are so tired of experts, they should remove all licensing for things like lawyers and doctors then.[/quote]
The problem with that analysis is that it's in direct contradiction of the nature of the products that were at fault. Packaging toxic debts in a way to make them acceptably risk free is the very antithesis of the idea that you'll have overall grown your economies even if the bubble bursts, which would be an incredible risk. They were rated AAA, that's equivalent to gold, it's the same as money. Greek debt was rated AAA. There was no enjoying the party until the bubble burst, all these international bodies and firms are complicit in that. Of course you say don't invest if they're not rated AAA, that's what the ratings are for. It's just a total failure of the bodies who were charged with rating risk. The nobel prize winners watched the funds that pioneered their techniques go bust. I don't really want to argue about it but these weren't ordinary investment decisions, they were either a criminal con (which is why a load of US bankers landed in jail) or total incompetence.
These specifics don't run through the vast majority of voter's minds of course - I know I am weird for knowing about them - but the background noise and the fact that the average lower income voter has seen their living standards continue to decline make it easy to dismiss their advice now. "Everybody knows" that they're just self serving arseholes.
To put the anti-intellectualism in context, Johnson and Gove both have a background in journalism or effectively propaganda. They've gone into politics and are exceptionally cynical propagandists, and that's just an example of it. There wasn't a single voice they wouldn't smear in the most idiotic terms - Obama was against Britain because one of his ancestors is Kenyan and there's imperial history there. Gove is the mouthpiece of Lord Rothermere who hates Cameron. Their motives are mostly about Tory infighting and they're fucking the country while they're doing it.
PermzillaI honestly think that if there was another referendum that remain would win, but I don't think there will be another one.
There's a fantasy scenario where the Tories call a general election before starting the process because of infighting and an effective labour leader emerges on a platform of calling a second referendum. Won't happen, the Tories will never call another one, although it would amuse me to see Cameron try in order to fuck people that have stabbed him in the back one last time.
[quote=Permzilla]I honestly think that [b]if[/b] there was another referendum that remain would win, but I don't think there will be another one.[/quote]
There's a fantasy scenario where the Tories call a general election before starting the process because of infighting and an effective labour leader emerges on a platform of calling a second referendum. Won't happen, the Tories will never call another one, although it would amuse me to see Cameron try in order to fuck people that have stabbed him in the back one last time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziXpbR3SoTw
[youtube]https://youtu.be/SEtL7qzLUA0[/youtube]
They call the leavers stupid, yet only 34% of young remainers were actually smart enough to show up and vote. lmao tbh
They call the leavers stupid, yet only 34% of young remainers were actually [i]smart[/i] enough to show up and vote. lmao tbh
I believe in less government and less handouts so in principal I agree with Brexit. It will be interesting to see what the short term consequences will be and I'm sure that is going to be the focal point of the bought and payed for manipulative media for the next few months. My feeling is that this will give the UK more economic freedom and leverage in the long run. The EU could try a trade war but that's to their own demise.
I believe in less government and less handouts so in principal I agree with Brexit. It will be interesting to see what the short term consequences will be and I'm sure that is going to be the focal point of the bought and payed for manipulative media for the next few months. My feeling is that this will give the UK more economic freedom and leverage in the long run. The EU could try a trade war but that's to their own demise.
pine_beetleI believe in less government and less handouts so in principal I agree with Brexit. It will be interesting to see what the short term consequences will be and I'm sure that is going to be the focal point of the bought and payed for manipulative media for the next few months. My feeling is that this will give the UK more economic freedom and leverage in the long run. The EU could try a trade war but that's to their own demise.
its going to end up the same way everything has always ended up when someone went for smaller government and privatization:
bad for anyone who doesn't own a large business
[quote=pine_beetle]I believe in less government and less handouts so in principal I agree with Brexit. It will be interesting to see what the short term consequences will be and I'm sure that is going to be the focal point of the bought and payed for manipulative media for the next few months. My feeling is that this will give the UK more economic freedom and leverage in the long run. The EU could try a trade war but that's to their own demise.[/quote]
its going to end up the same way everything has always ended up when someone went for smaller government and privatization:
bad for anyone who doesn't own a large business
eeepine_beetleI believe in less government and less handouts so in principal I agree with Brexit. It will be interesting to see what the short term consequences will be and I'm sure that is going to be the focal point of the bought and payed for manipulative media for the next few months. My feeling is that this will give the UK more economic freedom and leverage in the long run. The EU could try a trade war but that's to their own demise.
its going to end up the same way everything has always ended up when someone went for smaller government and privatization:
bad for anyone who doesn't own a large business
I don't understand your point. My experience has been that the more government gets involved and the bigger it is, the less effective it is overall. A lot of the time big governments hurt small business owners because they don't have the capability or the funds to meet ever growing or changing regulations. You may have different experience and that's fine, I'm giving my 2 cents bro. Brexit is not going to affect me at all in any way shape or form.
[quote=eee][quote=pine_beetle]I believe in less government and less handouts so in principal I agree with Brexit. It will be interesting to see what the short term consequences will be and I'm sure that is going to be the focal point of the bought and payed for manipulative media for the next few months. My feeling is that this will give the UK more economic freedom and leverage in the long run. The EU could try a trade war but that's to their own demise.[/quote]
its going to end up the same way everything has always ended up when someone went for smaller government and privatization:
bad for anyone who doesn't own a large business[/quote]
I don't understand your point. My experience has been that the more government gets involved and the bigger it is, the less effective it is overall. A lot of the time big governments hurt small business owners because they don't have the capability or the funds to meet ever growing or changing regulations. You may have different experience and that's fine, I'm giving my 2 cents bro. Brexit is not going to affect me at all in any way shape or form.
They're not moving to less government, they're just moving to one that has less control over taxes and international policy.
and brexit is going to affect you
They're not moving to less government, they're just moving to one that has less control over taxes and international policy.
and brexit is going to affect you
The EU is a another layer of government on top of federal government, which UK was represented disproportionately. 1 vote for a representative one country could be 5-10 votes for another. You don't know anything about me or my lifestyle so I don't understand how you can assume brexit will affect me in any meaningful way at all. I have shitloads of money and land and resources so I just don't care at all. If costs go up whatever... I'll be fine. It's really not something I care about at all. It's more of interesting world event. I understand if you feel differently about Brexit and that's okay. Obviously there's a large divide on this issue. TF.tv tends to be very left leaning populist and that's also fine. But that doesn't mean reasonable dialog can't take place. You're just giving me assumptions without any reasoning at all.
The EU is a another layer of government on top of federal government, which UK was represented disproportionately. 1 vote for a representative one country could be 5-10 votes for another. You don't know anything about me or my lifestyle so I don't understand how you can assume brexit will affect me in any meaningful way at all. I have shitloads of money and land and resources so I just don't care at all. If costs go up whatever... I'll be fine. It's really not something I care about at all. It's more of interesting world event. I understand if you feel differently about Brexit and that's okay. Obviously there's a large divide on this issue. TF.tv tends to be very left leaning populist and that's also fine. But that doesn't mean reasonable dialog can't take place. You're just giving me assumptions without any reasoning at all.
pine_beetleI don't understand your point. My experience has been that the more government gets involved and the bigger it is, the less effective it is overall.
yeah, just look at how stephen harper's government promoted as lean and small worked out for us!
...wait
[quote=pine_beetle]I don't understand your point. My experience has been that the more government gets involved and the bigger it is, the less effective it is overall.[/quote]
yeah, just look at how stephen harper's government promoted as lean and small worked out for us!
...wait
Giving up the EU hasn't reduced the amount of government at all, since the UK still needs to interact and comply with the EU. All they've done is reduced the amount of say they have in the control of the EU.
And even if you have lots of resources, global economic recessions still affect you
Giving up the EU hasn't reduced the amount of government at all, since the UK still needs to interact and comply with the EU. All they've done is reduced the amount of say they have in the control of the EU.
And even if you have lots of resources, global economic recessions still affect you
I find this opinion on how johnson's future is fucked interesting...
https://www.facebook.com/tom.short.351/posts/10155134392909152?pnref=story
trashpine_beetleI don't understand your point. My experience has been that the more government gets involved and the bigger it is, the less effective it is overall.
yeah, just look at how stephen harper's government promoted as lean and small worked out for us!
...wait
Really random implied assumption on something I never said.... Maybe we can have a real discussion? give me a counter argument or something or at least keep it on topic. Explain why you think Brexit is a bad thing and the reasons for it, or why you think bigger government is better maybe provide an example of one that worked. Because there's plenty of examples of large governments becoming desperate power hungry abusive dictatorships. The EU as a concept was being called a failure over the Greece debt ordeal, and that's still an ongoing problem and it's just a big mess.
[quote=trash][quote=pine_beetle]I don't understand your point. My experience has been that the more government gets involved and the bigger it is, the less effective it is overall.[/quote]
yeah, just look at how stephen harper's government promoted as lean and small worked out for us!
...wait[/quote]
Really random implied assumption on something I never said.... Maybe we can have a real discussion? give me a counter argument or something or at least keep it on topic. Explain why you think Brexit is a bad thing and the reasons for it, or why you think bigger government is better maybe provide an example of one that worked. Because there's plenty of examples of large governments becoming desperate power hungry abusive dictatorships. The EU as a concept was being called a failure over the Greece debt ordeal, and that's still an ongoing problem and it's just a big mess.
eeeGiving up the EU hasn't reduced the amount of government at all, since the UK still needs to interact and comply with the EU. All they've done is reduced the amount of say they have in the control of the EU.
And even if you have lots of resources, global economic recessions still affect you
No you don't have a clue what my situation is at all and it's silly to think that you somehow know better than I do about my own life. I don't know anything about yours maybe you're affected maybe you're not but I'm not going to pretend like I know what you are going through.
It's greatly reduced the amount of government. That's all going to have to be renegotiated and most likely united kingdom has the leverage. That has yet to be seen as the process hasn't even started.
[quote=eee]Giving up the EU hasn't reduced the amount of government at all, since the UK still needs to interact and comply with the EU. All they've done is reduced the amount of say they have in the control of the EU.
And even if you have lots of resources, global economic recessions still affect you[/quote]
No you don't have a clue what my situation is at all and it's silly to think that you somehow know better than I do about my own life. I don't know anything about yours maybe you're affected maybe you're not but I'm not going to pretend like I know what you are going through.
It's greatly reduced the amount of government. That's all going to have to be renegotiated and most likely united kingdom has the leverage. That has yet to be seen as the process hasn't even started.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9cLwoTkWes[/youtube]
PankeymanAs of now British are the only Europeans that don't disgust me since they actually have a pair of balls to go against their Eurocrat overlords. British are now officially part of the cool kid's table with America as opposed to the rest of you commie pieces of garbage.
Where do you see communism in Europe or Earth in general? Do you even live in the same planet dude?
Do you actually believe that the rest of Europe is communist holy fuck
[quote=Pankeyman]As of now British are the only Europeans that don't disgust me since they actually have a pair of balls to go against their Eurocrat overlords. British are now officially part of the cool kid's table with America as opposed to the rest of you commie pieces of garbage.[/quote]
Where do you see communism in Europe or Earth in general? Do you even live in the same planet dude?
Do you actually believe that the rest of Europe is communist holy fuck
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77wKp3eywzg[/youtube]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb7ePqtOIMQ
http://www.perc.org.uk/project_posts/thoughts-on-the-sociology-of-brexit/
Some interesting stuff in this article.
WillDaviesBy the same token, it seems unlikely that those in these regions (or Cornwall or other economically peripheral spaces) would feel ‘grateful’ to the EU for subsidies. Knowing that your business, farm, family or region is dependent on the beneficence of wealthy liberals is unlikely to be a recipe for satisfaction (see James Meek’s recent essay in the London Review of Books on Europhobic farmers who receive vast subsidies from the EU). More bizarrely, it has since emerged that regions with the closest economic ties to the EU in general (and not just of the subsidised variety) were most likely to vote Leave.
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
WillDaviesCrucially, they observed that – in strong contrast to the Scottish ‘Yes’ movement – Brexit was not fuelled by hope for a different future. On the contrary, many Leavers believed that withdrawing from the EU wouldn’t really change things one way or the other, but they still wanted to do it. I’ve long suspected that, on some unconscious level, things could be even stranger than this: the self-harm inflicted by Brexit could potentially be part of its appeal. It is now being reported that many Leave voters are aghast at what they’ve done, as if they never really intended for their actions to yield results.
...but it seems clear that – beyond the rhetoric of ‘Great Britain’ and ‘democracy’ – Brexit was never really articulated as a viable policy, and only ever as a destructive urge, which some no doubt now feel guilty for giving way to.
Thatcher and Reagan rode to power by promising a brighter future, which never quite materialised other than for a minority with access to elite education and capital assets. The contemporary populist promise to make Britain or American ‘great again’ is not made in the same way. It is not a pledge or a policy platform; it’s not to be measured in terms of results. When made by the likes of Boris Johnson, it’s not even clear if it’s meant seriously or not. It’s more an offer of a collective real-time halucination, that can be indulged in like a video game.
And some more stuff on leave voters regretting their decision - and why they might have voted that way despite regretting it now.
http://www.perc.org.uk/project_posts/thoughts-on-the-sociology-of-brexit/
Some interesting stuff in this article.
[quote=WillDavies]By the same token, it seems unlikely that those in these regions (or Cornwall or other economically peripheral spaces) would feel ‘grateful’ to the EU for subsidies. Knowing that your business, farm, family or region is dependent on the beneficence of wealthy liberals is unlikely to be a recipe for satisfaction (see James Meek’s recent essay in the London Review of Books on Europhobic farmers who receive vast subsidies from the EU). More bizarrely, it has since emerged that regions with the closest economic ties to the EU in general (and not just of the subsidised variety) were most likely to vote Leave.[/quote]
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
[quote=WillDavies]Crucially, they observed that – in strong contrast to the Scottish ‘Yes’ movement – Brexit was not fuelled by hope for a different future. On the contrary, many Leavers believed that withdrawing from the EU wouldn’t really change things one way or the other, but they still wanted to do it. I’ve long suspected that, on some unconscious level, things could be even stranger than this: the self-harm inflicted by Brexit could potentially be part of its appeal. It is now being reported that many Leave voters are aghast at what they’ve done, as if they never really intended for their actions to yield results.
...but it seems clear that – beyond the rhetoric of ‘Great Britain’ and ‘democracy’ – Brexit was never really articulated as a viable policy, and only ever as a destructive urge, which some no doubt now feel guilty for giving way to.
Thatcher and Reagan rode to power by promising a brighter future, which never quite materialised other than for a minority with access to elite education and capital assets. The contemporary populist promise to make Britain or American ‘great again’ is not made in the same way. It is not a pledge or a policy platform; it’s not to be measured in terms of results. When made by the likes of Boris Johnson, it’s not even clear if it’s meant seriously or not. It’s more an offer of a collective real-time halucination, that can be indulged in like a video game.[/quote]
And some more stuff on leave voters regretting their decision - and why they might have voted that way despite regretting it now.
whymeohttp://www.perc.org.uk/project_posts/thoughts-on-the-sociology-of-brexit/
Some interesting stuff in this article.
WillDaviesBy the same token, it seems unlikely that those in these regions (or Cornwall or other economically peripheral spaces) would feel ‘grateful’ to the EU for subsidies. Knowing that your business, farm, family or region is dependent on the beneficence of wealthy liberals is unlikely to be a recipe for satisfaction (see James Meek’s recent essay in the London Review of Books on Europhobic farmers who receive vast subsidies from the EU). More bizarrely, it has since emerged that regions with the closest economic ties to the EU in general (and not just of the subsidised variety) were most likely to vote Leave.
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
Yeah but EU quotas and policies destroyed a lot of industry in those regions in the first place.
http://www.cornishguardian.co.uk/looe-fisherman-slams-eu-quotas-spotting-french/story-28618220-detail/story.html
https://www.businesscornwall.co.uk/news-by-location/penzance-business-news/2014/12/eu-fishing-quotas-reaction/
http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk/fishermen-south-west-braced-damaging-cut-eu/story-24766610-detail/story.html
"Deep cuts to fish quotas by Brussels could devastate the South West fishing industry by removing as much as 12% of the total annual catch, experts have claimed."
...
"A furious Looe skipper has branded EU haddock fishing quotas "ridiculous" after French vessels were seen fishing for the species in British waters, while his crew were stuck in port."
...
"French boats, which under the Common Fisheries Policy (CFP) are able to take 2,000kg of haddock each day, whereas British vessels are restricted to 250kg - a month."
...
“Therefore simple economics means once again, fishermen will be worse off – and in some cases, possibly forced out of the industry or face having to reduce the number of their crew to stay viable.”
There will be plenty of fisherman in Cornwall who'll do much better once we've left the EU.
[quote=whymeo]http://www.perc.org.uk/project_posts/thoughts-on-the-sociology-of-brexit/
Some interesting stuff in this article.
[quote=WillDavies]By the same token, it seems unlikely that those in these regions (or Cornwall or other economically peripheral spaces) would feel ‘grateful’ to the EU for subsidies. Knowing that your business, farm, family or region is dependent on the beneficence of wealthy liberals is unlikely to be a recipe for satisfaction (see James Meek’s recent essay in the London Review of Books on Europhobic farmers who receive vast subsidies from the EU). More bizarrely, it has since emerged that regions with the closest economic ties to the EU in general (and not just of the subsidised variety) were most likely to vote Leave.[/quote]
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
[/quote]
Yeah but EU quotas and policies destroyed a lot of industry in those regions in the first place.
http://www.cornishguardian.co.uk/looe-fisherman-slams-eu-quotas-spotting-french/story-28618220-detail/story.html
https://www.businesscornwall.co.uk/news-by-location/penzance-business-news/2014/12/eu-fishing-quotas-reaction/
http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk/fishermen-south-west-braced-damaging-cut-eu/story-24766610-detail/story.html
"Deep cuts to fish quotas by Brussels could devastate the South West fishing industry by removing as much as 12% of the total annual catch, experts have claimed."
...
"A furious Looe skipper has branded EU haddock fishing quotas "ridiculous" after French vessels were seen fishing for the species in British waters, while his crew were stuck in port."
...
"French boats, which under the Common Fisheries Policy (CFP) are able to take 2,000kg of haddock each day, whereas British vessels are restricted to 250kg - a month."
...
“Therefore simple economics means once again, fishermen will be worse off – and in some cases, possibly forced out of the industry or face having to reduce the number of their crew to stay viable.”
There will be plenty of fisherman in Cornwall who'll do much better once we've left the EU.
Just dropping in to say that it's nice to see people value democracy in this day and age. This will be a historic success for the UK when EU crumbles and dies eventually.
Just dropping in to say that it's nice to see people value democracy in this day and age. This will be a historic success for the UK when EU crumbles and dies eventually.
PankeymanAs of now British are the only Europeans that don't disgust me since they actually have a pair of balls to go against their Eurocrat overlords. British are now officially part of the cool kid's table with America as opposed to the rest of you commie pieces of garbage.
Where do these opinions towards EU come from?
Like, do you know what EU does or is for?
I hope you were being a memelord.
[quote=Pankeyman]As of now British are the only Europeans that don't disgust me since they actually have a pair of balls to go against their Eurocrat overlords. British are now officially part of the cool kid's table with America as opposed to the rest of you commie pieces of garbage.[/quote]
Where do these opinions towards EU come from?
Like, do you know what EU does or is for?
I hope you were being a memelord.
biskuitPankeymanAs of now British are the only Europeans that don't disgust me since they actually have a pair of balls to go against their Eurocrat overlords. British are now officially part of the cool kid's table with America as opposed to the rest of you commie pieces of garbage.
Where do you see communism in Europe or Earth in general? Do you even live in the same planet dude?
Do you actually believe that the rest of Europe is communist holy fuck
Let's see where the EU is in a few years if this referendum hasn't begun the chain reaction to its self-destruction (which it hopefully has). You might not officially be under a communist rule, but all the signs are pointing to it. Being from Greece, surely you know just how much leverage your country has at the moment.
[quote=biskuit][quote=Pankeyman]As of now British are the only Europeans that don't disgust me since they actually have a pair of balls to go against their Eurocrat overlords. British are now officially part of the cool kid's table with America as opposed to the rest of you commie pieces of garbage.[/quote]
Where do you see communism in Europe or Earth in general? Do you even live in the same planet dude?
Do you actually believe that the rest of Europe is communist holy fuck[/quote]
Let's see where the EU is in a few years if this referendum hasn't begun the chain reaction to its self-destruction (which it hopefully has). You might not officially be under a communist rule, but all the signs are pointing to it. Being from Greece, surely you know just how much leverage your country has at the moment.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/746272130992644096
scotland voted to remain -.-
EmilioEstevezfish
How is leaving the EU going to affect quotas? You do realize why there are fishing limits right? All you've done is remove yourself from the governing body that was imposing those limits, you haven't removed the need for fishing limits. If you start fishing more as a "fuck you" to the EU, you'll just overfish the channel and shoot yourself in the foot (which seems to be a common theme here). If the fishing limits were so unfair, why is your idea to say "fuck fishing limits" instead of trying to change the EU or negotiate with France? The level of subtlety and political insight in your posting is pathetic, you think like a literal child. I don't even mean that to be rude, I'm being 100% serious when I say your understanding and interpretation of the situation is so shallow that it genuinely feels like a child trying to wrestle with it.
[quote=EmilioEstevez]fish[/quote]
How is leaving the EU going to affect quotas? You do realize why there are fishing limits right? All you've done is remove yourself from the governing body that was imposing those limits, you haven't removed the need for fishing limits. If you start fishing more as a "fuck you" to the EU, you'll just overfish the channel and shoot yourself in the foot (which seems to be a common theme here). If the fishing limits were so unfair, why is your idea to say "fuck fishing limits" instead of trying to change the EU or negotiate with France? The level of subtlety and political insight in your posting is pathetic, you think like a literal child. I don't even mean that to be rude, I'm being 100% serious when I say your understanding and interpretation of the situation is so shallow that it genuinely feels like a child trying to wrestle with it.
The fisherman will do better but the fish won't. Hence the points those quotas exist.
Refer to the aforementioned "big government is stifling business!!!1111!!" as all the business interests try to destroy regulation
The fisherman will do better but the fish won't. Hence the points those quotas exist.
Refer to the aforementioned "big government is stifling business!!!1111!!" as all the business interests try to destroy regulation
eeeHow is leaving the EU going to affect quotas? You do realize why there are fishing limits right? All you've done is remove yourself from the governing body that was imposing those limits, you haven't removed the need for fishing limits. If you start fishing more as a "fuck you" to the EU, you'll just overfish the channel and shoot yourself in the foot (which seems to be a common theme here). If the fishing limits were so unfair, why is your idea to say "fuck fishing limits" instead of trying to change the EU or negotiate with France? The level of subtlety and political insight in your posting is pathetic, you think like a literal child. I don't even mean that to be rude, I'm being 100% serious when I say your understanding and interpretation of the situation is so shallow that it genuinely feels like a child trying to wrestle with it.
Or maybe he just thinks that the british fishermen should be the ones fishing in the british seas, and not frenchmen and spaniards? It's ridiculous, they don't let us mine the swedes ores because we don't have any.
[quote=eee]
How is leaving the EU going to affect quotas? You do realize why there are fishing limits right? All you've done is remove yourself from the governing body that was imposing those limits, you haven't removed the need for fishing limits. If you start fishing more as a "fuck you" to the EU, you'll just overfish the channel and shoot yourself in the foot (which seems to be a common theme here). If the fishing limits were so unfair, why is your idea to say "fuck fishing limits" instead of trying to change the EU or negotiate with France? The level of subtlety and political insight in your posting is pathetic, you think like a literal child. I don't even mean that to be rude, I'm being 100% serious when I say your understanding and interpretation of the situation is so shallow that it genuinely feels like a child trying to wrestle with it.[/quote]
Or maybe he just thinks that the british fishermen should be the ones fishing in the british seas, and not frenchmen and spaniards? It's ridiculous, they don't let us mine the swedes ores because we don't have any.
eeeEmilioEstevezfish
How is leaving the EU going to affect quotas? You do realize why there are fishing limits right?
Do you even know why the quotas are set where they are? Why the French get a bigger quota of haddock in the English channel than the English?
Do you know that in order to meet their quotas on specific species English fisherman have to throw back the majority of their catch (most of which die anyway) defeating the point of the quota in the first place?
The idea of having sustainable fishing isn't the issue, the issue is that the way the EU has structured it has destroyed much of the fishing industry in Cornwall because it wasn't seen as a priority by London based politicians. They were happy to give the French most of the catch in that area because they didn't want to spend political capital on getting a better deal for English fishermen.
You don't know anything about English politics or culture, you are just an opinionated American college student.
[quote=eee][quote=EmilioEstevez]fish[/quote]
How is leaving the EU going to affect quotas? You do realize why there are fishing limits right? [/quote]
Do you even know why the quotas are set where they are? Why the French get a bigger quota of haddock in the English channel than the English?
Do you know that in order to meet their quotas on specific species English fisherman have to throw back the majority of their catch (most of which die anyway) defeating the point of the quota in the first place?
The idea of having sustainable fishing isn't the issue, the issue is that the way the EU has structured it has destroyed much of the fishing industry in Cornwall because it wasn't seen as a priority by London based politicians. They were happy to give the French most of the catch in that area because they didn't want to spend political capital on getting a better deal for English fishermen.
You don't know anything about English politics or culture, you are just an opinionated American college student.
ScissorseeeHow is leaving the EU going to affect quotas? You do realize why there are fishing limits right? All you've done is remove yourself from the governing body that was imposing those limits, you haven't removed the need for fishing limits. If you start fishing more as a "fuck you" to the EU, you'll just overfish the channel and shoot yourself in the foot (which seems to be a common theme here). If the fishing limits were so unfair, why is your idea to say "fuck fishing limits" instead of trying to change the EU or negotiate with France? The level of subtlety and political insight in your posting is pathetic, you think like a literal child. I don't even mean that to be rude, I'm being 100% serious when I say your understanding and interpretation of the situation is so shallow that it genuinely feels like a child trying to wrestle with it.
Or maybe he just thinks that the british fishermen should be the ones fishing in the british seas, and not frenchmen and spaniards? It's ridiculous, they don't let us mine the swedes ores because we don't have any.
All EU members have exclusive fishing rights within a 12 mile radius from their coastline. It's just in the open waters between EU members that countries can both fish. If a country, in this case France, is fishing within the protected zone they are breaking the treaty/law.
Example:
http://britishseafishing.co.uk/scallop-conflict/
Most of the quotas in place exist not just for general areas but for specific regions, in this case scallop fisheries closer to the British Isles rather than the French coastline due to differences in spawning rates.
So in the scallop example, UK scallop fishers get a better deal. While in the other examples other types of French fisherman might get a better deal due to specifics of the location of certain spawning grounds and some politicking.
So without these EU quotas the UK loses access to some areas they might not be able to fish anyways along with certain preferential treatment in them compared to French fishers, but they also earn some disadvantages in other areas. It's an economic yin-yang whose subtlety is generally lost because people focus on their immediate situation instead of the net gain/loss.
[quote=Scissors][quote=eee]
How is leaving the EU going to affect quotas? You do realize why there are fishing limits right? All you've done is remove yourself from the governing body that was imposing those limits, you haven't removed the need for fishing limits. If you start fishing more as a "fuck you" to the EU, you'll just overfish the channel and shoot yourself in the foot (which seems to be a common theme here). If the fishing limits were so unfair, why is your idea to say "fuck fishing limits" instead of trying to change the EU or negotiate with France? The level of subtlety and political insight in your posting is pathetic, you think like a literal child. I don't even mean that to be rude, I'm being 100% serious when I say your understanding and interpretation of the situation is so shallow that it genuinely feels like a child trying to wrestle with it.[/quote]
Or maybe he just thinks that the british fishermen should be the ones fishing in the british seas, and not frenchmen and spaniards? It's ridiculous, they don't let us mine the swedes ores because we don't have any.[/quote]
All EU members have exclusive fishing rights within a 12 mile radius from their coastline. It's just in the open waters between EU members that countries can both fish. If a country, in this case France, is fishing within the protected zone they are breaking the treaty/law.
Example:
http://britishseafishing.co.uk/scallop-conflict/
Most of the quotas in place exist not just for general areas but for specific regions, in this case scallop fisheries closer to the British Isles rather than the French coastline due to differences in spawning rates.
So in the scallop example, UK scallop fishers get a better deal. While in the other examples other types of French fisherman might get a better deal due to specifics of the location of certain spawning grounds and some politicking.
So without these EU quotas the UK loses access to some areas they might not be able to fish anyways along with certain preferential treatment in them compared to French fishers, but they also earn some disadvantages in other areas. It's an economic yin-yang whose subtlety is generally lost because people focus on their immediate situation instead of the net gain/loss.