cozy camper is balanced great now, keep it unbanned

fuck the tomislav that shit is a lightning gun now that it's more accurate

edit: idk why the battallion's backups banned tho

Imo there're a lot of weapons excluded from ESEA whitelist that aren't worth being banned at all (most of them are just bad or gimmickly so they won't cause any issues). On the other hand, Cozy Camper was allowed even before it's nerf despite being OP (completely countering one of the ways of dealing with enemy sniper). Might not be worth banning anymore, not sure.

That's been over a year btw.

Something about Viaduct many seasons back?

Does iron bomber have a chance to be unbanned now?

Battalions backup was actually fucking broken and you definitely don't want to play against it

o yes i love the battalions backup i love when rockets do a max of 75 damage its my favorite

If we're banning what we don't like playing against, can we ban Scout? There's nothing wrong with any of the banners right now.

Yeah... Ever played against a Vaccinator?

Did you miss the first part of the sentence? "Battalions backup was actually fucking broken". People don't want to play against broken weapons, that's the reason a whitelist exists.

Also comparing Battalion's which you have to give up shotty or gunboats for and you can do during a stalemate with no repercussions later on isn't comparable at all to giving up Ubercharge for a chance at a desperation hold. I've never played against the Battalion's so I don't know how good it is but you made two of the most retarded arguments I've seen.

engineer

Well it's not broken anymore so I don't see the issue.
Also nothing stops you from using a banner during a stalemate when you see your enemy doing it...

BB takes just 600 damage to build, literally nothing right? I can't really understand why you're all complaining about it. How often have you played against it or are least seen it being used?

The problem is, on viaduct, how are they going to build their own battalions/whatever counter you think exists if you have it already and you have the point? You can cycle battalions and ubers and they will have a very hard time breaking it.

battalions is actually amazing and I wouldnt be surprised if it stayed banned, crit immunity, 20 extra hp, and 35% dmg reduction is op as fuck

i really dont wanna experience playing viaduct where the enemy team's soldiers are running conch and battalion's backup while theyre holding point

Idea: What if we stop treating it like a whitelist and start treating it like a blacklist?

Anyway, with that in mind http://whitelist.tf/6109. I think it would do less to invite level play than most people would initially think, and having the smallest amount of weapons banned possible is always the best solution.

Maybe I'll make a rant post talking about the problem with heavy/engineer being nearly identical classes, but as the classes stand for now allowing heavy to have lunchbox items isn't a problem.

Part of the problem here is that people are evaluating individual weapons as they stand, instead of the whitelist as a whole. Is the problem with Battalion's? Or is the problem with the counters to Battalions being banned?

I agree with alot of this whitelist, but why have panic attack banned and solemn vow unbanned?

Because I think panic attack is *just* powerful enough that it would start crowding out other options in the secondary slot. I'm not entirely against unbanning it, I just think that its powercreep over the shotgun, whereas the reserve shooter is a different playstyle necessary to utilize the weapon to its max potential.

In the solemn vow's case, its a weapon that on a team with good communication, is literally useless, and you have to give up the ubersaw to use it anyway.

Battalions backup was powerful enough to be banned before they added the +20 health. I abused the fuck out of that weapon in highlander, its ridiculously powerful.

Also most people think the panic attack is a shit weapon. If someone figures out how to use the panic attack as consistently as the shotgun, I would be shocked.

the backup is allowed everywhere except in na and i dont think i've ever seen it used

both the buff banner and the conch are much better because they can be used offensively

This might just be my inexperience at play here, but I feel like the caber could be unbanned. To my knowledge it's not that great after the nerf a little while back, I think the explosion attack does 90ish damage and you only get to use it once unless you die or resub. Even then it's still a melee attack and on the demo at that. I personally don't see it being very broken, however this might just be me being retarded and not seeing how powerful it is or something.

it would be dumb to play against, if you were a scout and you died on 90 hp when the demo is on 10 hp and had no stickies or pipes loaded you would be pretty salty.

How the fuck would a demo with no pipes or sickies loaded be in range of a scout who hasn't already killed him

Doesn't ETF2L have a tourney were they try new items and maps? Why don't we do that.

That doesn't work if nobody tries

the backup isn't broken on viaduct because you have to heal your soldier on fucking viaduct

its broken when its used like a better concheror to break stalemates because healing your soldier is what you do there anyway

The Battalion's backup was banned in the era when it built via taking damage and charged *very* quickly - you would achieve a charge far more quickly with that particular unlock than its buff banner/conch cousins. Now it's different and I feel mostly ambivalent about it.

I feel mostly ambivalent about the whitelist as it is - I don't think anything particular great would be gained by allowing any of the new items - which is why I assume nothing has changed in 2 years.

It's a shame there isn't a mechanic to *remove* items if they were found to be detrimental to the game mid-season. Then I'd be far less leery of allowing new things - mainly because I *still* feel nausea from s14 and the quick-fix.