u actually completely missed the point (because you have down syndrome (which means you have too many chromosomes (which means you're a retard)))

trying to use policy from 1860 or 1960 or 2060 is pointless in a debate about policy in 2016 because we're comparing what the parties stand for now

sorry elliot did u know the democratic party didn't exist in 500 A.D. and so technically the democratic party doesn't even exist now??

We?? my original post #84 is a rebuttal of this quote

in which i cited and shown by several examples that it's not the case, on which nite wrote a nice reaction to it, and I responded back to him, and you budge in and be elliot , telling me i missed "the point"

Donald Trump companies have declared bankruptcy 6 times in the last 25 years. Don't be fooled by him saying he's worth billions. Between 1999 and 2009 he received a tax credit only available to New York's middle class that earn less than 500K a year. No wonder he doesn't want to share his tax return information. I wish people actually do some research before regurgitating the "he's a successful businessman" bullshit, there's plenty of evidence to the contrary.

actually #92 i agree with sac

belgium is a horrible country and no one should vote for anyone over there, in fact they should probably be taken over by a better group of people, because they clearly support lying to the rest of Europe that they will improve an area and not tax trade, then go back on everything, ignore living conditions, mutilated/killed people who didn't meet rubber quotas, take tons of materials from the area for Belgium, be responsible for an incalculable amount of deaths in that area, among other horrors, due to something a leader of theirs did 131 years ago which is obviously still relevant today.

That still has absolutely nothing to do with Democrats in the 1860s. Trump's rhetoric is different, and panders to different ideals than the pro-segregation or slavery democrats did. Trump mostly captures the altright and tea party republican support that has only existed in the last few years.

Outside of all of that, mentioning that democrats in the 1860s supported slavery isn't relevant because we aren't talking about democrats in the 1860s, we're talking about democrats now. You tried to say he didn't know what he was voting for by voting for the Dems.

Your argument for this paragraph is he's an 18 year old who doesn't know what the Democrats really are (lolconspiracy) because the MSM is lying about trump being a racist. Here's a nice list of things Trump said that might be racist btw :)

You then tried to explain illegal immigration as an issue not based on race, even though the GOP treats it racially. The US doesn't give a shit about illegals from anywhere but Mexico. We aren't building a wall around Europe or Asia or Canada, just Mexico. Somehow you try to turn this around by calling anyone who points this out a racist, which is pretty sad imo

I still don't see how that relates to historical democrat policy tho

honestly I think you are actually stupid, but that makes sense because last time you posted you mentioned not going to college or having a job worth a fuck. I realize not everyone can be informed or intelligent, but please dont speak if you're actually retarded, thanks!

Also trump declared bankruptcy 6 times over ~500 businesses. The national average is something like 75%. Trump is a pretty good businessman

Johnson, Byrd and Clinton the examples i gave all lived in the 1860s?

if you want to see modern day racism i'll give you this quote: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/mar/07/bernie-s/bernie-sanders-wrong-say-when-youre-white-you-dont/

http://www.salon.com/2015/12/21/the_media_needs_to_stop_telling_this_lie_about_donald_trump_im_a_sanders_supporter_and_value_honesty/

By far, most Mexicans are good people. However, since Mexico shares a large frontier with the U.S., and many Mexicans face economic hardships, most of the reported illegal immigration into the U.S. is from Mexico. Accordingly, in recent years roughly 76% of criminal unauthorized immigrants are from Mexico.

why do you even make shit up like this, come on elliot, you can do better than this and be a bit more wittier

this is a very common opinion in Belgium as well, tbh thats why they have voting mandatory.

-

https://youtu.be/buiv3_uVHSA

literally none of that justifies why 1860 policy positions are relevant tho

Coming from the perspective of a moderate independent, I instantly assume that anyone saying "but the democrats supported slavery" (or any variant) hasn't consumed unbiased news/media in years. It's straight out of "Hillary's America" or some shit. The parties swapped many positions through LBJ's leadership while passing the civil/voting rights acts. The southern dixiecrats bailed on the democratic party, and fled to the republicans. Read a book Jesus Christ

And to the people that responded to my post talking about how much better Trump will be for the working class, saying "BAD TRADE DEALS AHH!" won't change the fact that we import a ton of of stuff from countries that we don't even have trade deals with. It's just not possible for a developed, regulated country like the US to manufacture as cheaply as a developing nation. The reason we don't manufacture in America anymore isn't because of trade deals, it's because adults (and children) aren't working for pennies an hour in shithole death-machine factories all day and night.

As comforting as it may be to people when Trump says "ooooh we're gonna bring those jobs back so fast, believe me" it's not rooted in reality. To support the working class, you need to invest in infrastructure to deal with the short term and education to allow for long term growth. That is Clinton's basic plan, and it's way more sustainable than getting rid of mutually beneficial trade deals and partnerships with our allies.

Which is why you have trade tarriffs to increase the cost of exporting labour to cheaper countries, protecting your own workers.

Also these trade deals are not mutually beneficial, only the big corporations benefit. Workers in these countries get a shitty deal, it's why nobody in Europe wants the TTIP but American and European politicians will keep pushing it as it's good for large businesses.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-is-ttip-and-six-reasons-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html

"The EU has admitted that TTIP will probably cause unemployment as jobs switch to the US, where labour standards and trade union rights are lower.

Examples from other similar bi-lateral trade agreements around the world support the case for job losses. The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) between the US, Canada and Mexico caused the loss of one million US jobs over 12 years, instead of the hundreds of thousands of extra that were promised.

...

TTIP’s biggest threat to society is its inherent assault on democracy. One of the main aims of TTIP is the introduction of Investor-State Dispute Settlements (ISDS), which allow companies to sue governments if those governments’ policies cause a loss of profits. In effect it means unelected transnational corporations can dictate the policies of democratically elected governments."

It's easy to say oh yeah globalism is the future theres no other choice when you are a 20 year old college student with no responsibilities. Globalists don't offer much of a future to a 45 year old blue collar worker who's industry is being moved to some third world shithole where they work for pennies an hour. I doubt they find much comfort in being told "well thats just the way it is now, it's cheaper over there, nothing we can do". I wonder if everyone will be so sanguine in 20-30 years time when China and India are pumping out up to 100 million graduates every year who will do your job for a fraction of the price, will you expect the govt to protect your job then?

did u just ignore the part where I pointed out there's literally no way to justify costs of manufacturing in a first world country so even if they came back it'd just be robots?

I don't understand how your argument against globalism is "it's coming in the future but it sucks so we shouldn't prepare for it". Anyway, it'd be hard for the Chinese to take my job or the job that most universities pump out. Service industries depend too heavily on individuals being here to be outsourced. Office work might eventually get ported over but things like medicine, management, and retail work still require people in the stores.

And the people living in Eastern Europe would rather have NATO expansion than have the VSRF here.

Electing a president in this day and age is way more about public image than policies. It would be great if the election was strictly about policies but the sad truth is that image is more important now. I honestly wish there was a candidate this year worthy of a vote.

That said, I am not a Trump supporter but I believe many people like me are voting for him because there is no other choice. I 100% refuse to vote for Hillary Clinton because I believe her to be a liar. I watched her whole testimony on CSPAN when that was live and it was obvious to me that she was passing the blame and couldn't accept that fact that she fucked up. Essentially, she lost any chance of my vote at that moment.

Sure Trump may say a lot of crazy shit and he may even lie himself but the big difference to me is that Clinton was elected into office to speak for us all and she still lied. Trump wasn't elected into any office yet so nobody can judge him on what he may or may not do once elected.

I don't think you should tell people to read a book, if you can't even read a few paragraphs and put it into context. I mean you're right in your paragraph, but if you read post #94 you see why i posted some historical examples, and gee historical examples, happened in the past. gee what a surprise, my mentioning of it, is directed to people like Jaeg, who have probably no clue on athe history of the parties before their birthdate, so anything pre 9/11.

manufacturing isn't just a sweatshop business, and do you think there is noone around to make sure everything in order when there is robots and heavy machinery is on the work place?

It boggles my mind to see people defending the TTIP and NAFTA.

Also, i'm pretty sure it's mentioned that both candidates want to tackle your crippling infrastructure, but only one of them actually knows how to do it cost effective. Just compare, Hillary in Haiti vs this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx651fvHMPo

sac you're almost as baitable as Donald Trump...

I love how isolationism has suddenly become super popular for the alt right thinking that developed post manufacturing nations can suddenly reverse 100 years of global economic and technological trends.

That's worked out real well for plenty of others in the past not even considering the absolute insanity of the idea in today's market landscape.

In the same way the left have suddenly become free market capitalists who do whatever large corporations and banks tell them, screwing over the poorest in society in the name of higher profits. It's weird.

It's also weird how you guys are pro NAFTA and TPP when even Hillary opposes them these days and has said they were bad for American workers (after she championed them when they were being proposed).

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00FMZPM1A?ascsubtag=688d741fbafa649feb97e395f9d02605_S&pc_redir=T1

wtf are u talking about literally every Bernie delegate was shouting "NO TPP" throughout the entire DNC lmao.

Bernie isn't the democratic candidate. He didn't get enough support, Hillary did and she has consistently voted for free trade agreements (even though she now admits they were bad for Americans).

He still represents the farthest left of the party and ur claiming people from the left are in support of TPP????

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism

This is the economic policy of the left in the USA today. Sanders supporters do not represent the majority of left leaning politicians.

ur actually braindead. The mainstream democratic party isn't even to the left, they're just less to the right than republicans. Sanders supporters are the ONLY left (well besides the small green party) in the US.

I'm not sure if you're actually stupid or just pretending. Left and right are relative terms, if you are to the left of the majority of the population you are on the left.

Sure u can use them as relative terms in one country but as far as politics around the world go, democrats are firmly in the right.

I'm not going to bother trying to have a conversation with u anymore ur laughably stuck in ur own world view.

Only if the "WORLD" constitutes Europe and USA only. The USA is to the right of Europe but it is for sure left of China/Russia/The Middle East et al.

Or do you really believe China and India are to the left of the USA?

emilio go get some air boi

when Ronald Reagan got elected, people claimed he was going to blow up the earth