Winger + Atomizer Jumps:

Viaduct:

Cliff pack to cliff just barely, have to aim for slightly lower place.
House to China.
House to Cliff.
China to that rock on cliff that soldiers stand on, blanking on its name.
Concrete to China through mid.
Concrete to China through japan.
Can't don't Concrete to China through grass.

Machina + Jarate is allowed now? oh lord

The other nice benefit of a unified whitelist is whereas before 30% of the weapons were banned in 60% of the leagues and 20% were banned in 8%, Valve just sits there and rolls there eyes, but now with only twenty weapons banned in any and all league, Valve might think "Hey, you know, maybe snipers shouldn't be headshot proof."

Seriously, how long has that Dalokoh bug been around?

So.... same whitelist, but not same map pool or same ruleset?

Are faceit likely to follow this?

And to repeat someone else, if it is decided that this whitelist needs to change, who now changes it?

I think we can all agree though, even with it's imperfections, a global whitelist is a good step forward

I definitely think that there should have been more input from many more people in all the regions of the community realistically. Having been in the mumble (not participating in the talks though) I think the pool was quite small and its not a judgement call only a select few should make. I think this whole thing might've done a lot better if publicized more and input was more open-ended. Like blaze I was also completely unaware of such a transaction until the "day of".

However on the basic principle of the whole idea, I'm all for it. This is the FASTEST way to get certain items nerfed and or buffed. Having the highest caliber of players experimenting with these items and trying to abuse them is much more efficient than relying on a lower level matchmaking pool to dictate what is OP and what isn't. Just think that a better dialogue with more players in the scene and even some of the public sphere would have been better. :)

I'm pretty sure the Wrap Assassin recharges in like 15 seconds and does way less damage than the Cleaver. No one is going to use it when they can just use Atomizer tho.

Gunslinger unbanned? Wow

while a unified whitelist is certainly a step for competitive tf2 to have understanding across every league (or until valve balances every weapon or a well-liked promod of this game is created), i think a better step to precede this one is to create a unifying ruleset of time/rounds/etc and THEN move onto unlocks

I personally think having the Solemn Vow would've been okay.
Gives medics a more active role in calling targets. giving up the ubersaw for a passive ability that requires teamwork is fine imo

Atomizer unban will be "interesting" to say the least

Most unbans are fine though. I've been hoping for a whitelist blacklist like this for a while. Even if it only lasts a season at least we'll have tried.

Any reason for the Steak to remain banned? Don't want medics to get the small hp pack or is there some bug like the dalokah's bar?

we should enforce clas limit 1

we played 3 scrims against full time jarate sniper last night and got hit by it like 3 times

Winger + Atomizer Jumps:

Gullywash:

Lower ground mid to high ground mid without using the wooden beam.
Can get into the Big Door hiding spot easily.
Choke to wooden planks on upper.
From the very back corner of second to the top of second point.
Lower ground on last to Balcony.

Double jump gets you to most places on this map, atomizer isn't really a big deal here.

Sorry, was under the impression that it was completely universal.

So it's just a global 6s whitelist then, okay. Not as big of a deal as if it were a global TF2 whitelist. Without that Valve won't care much.

Keep in mind it was a fairly safe assumption because "6s" and "6v6" weren't mentioned anywhere in the post, and it would explain some shit like the Rescue Ranger

I think it's important as we go forward with TF2 that we loosen up the whitelist, and set a standard for all regions. This new whitelist is pretty crazy though, I never expected to see stuff like Atomizer, Natascha, Rescue Ranger and Jarate unbanned without getting nerfed first.

I like these unexpected unbans though. A questionable whitelist is not what's going to kill TF2, refusing change might.

this is the mindset that has resulted in tf2 becoming more of a ridiculous clusterfuck over the years:

people who see the key to better gameplay and a diverse metagame as being the shiny new toys that valve gives us rather than from the minds of competitive players themselves

it's the same reason cs has become so bullshit with the smgs and pistols being 85% as good as rifles, thus fucking up the entire money system that made it more strategic than most similar games

if your idea of "strats" is "random coin flip of which team chose the right op laser weapon thingy to counter the other team's op doohicky" then you should just play a shitty fps like overwatch (incidentally, that's the reason valve is doing all this desperate shit right now anyways)

I can't wait to push into last with a revved up, buffed Natascha Heavy and a Level 3 that's getting pumped by a Rescue Ranger.

But Valve doesn't care about HL or 4's right now; they're focusing on 6's.

ETF2L allowed it last season already. It was used like once and nobody cared. It was also allowed at i58 I think? It wasn't worth giving up the Boston Basher for back then and it won't be worth giving up the Atomizer for now

what.... the sun on the stick is unbanned? Screw the atomizer, incoming full time pyro.

heh

this one has so many obvious mistakes,... wait for the non obvious to surface ...

you've hinted at the bigger problem here

valve takes YEARS to fix anything, and when they do they end up breaking 3 things for every 1 thing they fix in any given update

having hope that this will change when tf2 is being maintained by the lowest level shitters at valve at this point, and even csgo (one of the 3 biggest esports in the world by any measure) can't receive updates to fix ground floor-level issues, is delusional

hey man like theres always asiafortress if you dont want these yeah?

http://orig08.deviantart.net/ef92/f/2012/021/f/5/tf2___the_third_degree_by_megaman196-d4n4r46.jpg

in depth (and very quiet) opinions

We played with what was essentially this whitelist last night in scrims, so I think I can provide an interesting perspective on the whitelist. :)

I think it's because of speed buff, eat it in spawn, go fast to mid and when there it will recharge and have a medium health pack to throw.

Winger + Atomizer Jumps:

Sunshine:

Last point to pipe.
Can jump over the right grate thing on last, from the lower ground.
Lower to far left entrance on second without using stairs.
Lower to small pack on second.
Can't get onto the top of the entrance into flowers.
Lower ground to second point.
Can jump onto the fence at choke.
Can use fence to get onto the wooden fence thing at choke.
Can get wooden fench from using high ground in choke.
Cafe to Tower pack.
Mid to top of tetris.
Shed to top of tetris.
Shed to cafe roof.
If you do a little twirl you can go cafe to roof of cafe.

I think thats it.

Question.

Since this is a "universal" banlist, does this apply to HL as well? Or does it only apply to 6's?

inb4 double 185 hp scout bombs at mids , who the fuck needs soldiers

It still does less damage per shot.