u got me there

i honestly feel the same about this whitelist as i do when valve releases a balance or content patch
you know that feeling?

atomizer is honestly broken, as is base jumper

it said ugc agreed too so i guess yeah

i wonder what can be done to weapons like the bonk or the sandman or milk ? what nerf could these possibly get that doesn´t destroy its fundamentals? also milk is banned but jarate isnt ...

make them shit

I think a global whitelist is very much a step in the right direction, even if some of the choices might seem odd from the outset. I'm interested to see what changes happen as a result of this, and what changes will be made to it in the future.

I've suggested this once or twice before as a change, but having the lunchbox items not be rechargeable (similar to how the razorback functions) would make weapons like this a little less painful to play against. But I don't want this to turn into yet another "weapon change suggestion thread".

Winger + Atomizer Jumps:

Process:

Concrete on second to top of second point without using the little pipes on the side.
Low ground grass to sewer.
Crates by sewer to jumping over the fence on second.
Last point to nest.
Lower entrance of lobby to upper entrance of lobby.
Still have to use roof slant to get onto top of mid.
Right side grass to forward spawn roof.
Low ground IT to upper IT.
Low ground last to top of barrels.

For jarate you need to swap one of your classes to sniper while with milk you can stick with scout, I guess that's the reasoning.

Honestly, I think people are overreacting, if people abuse weapons this season they will be banned next season anyway
It's not like i58 is the next week

ok sure but adding the most aids ass whitelist 8 hours before registration closes when there is already a shortage of teams was pretty stupid

Just played a mix to test the unlocks

Loch 'N Load is insane vs scouts and on mids, with kritz if you hit it's pretty nutty. You can literally snipe their Medic as a demoman without sticks extremely easily and it just munches on scouts.

Parachute was aids but more gimmicky - if your scouts just shoot the parachuting player its a free pick, but if they don't you can do surprisingly more than I expected.

Gunslinger was frustrating to play against occassionally in scrappy fights but in general was very easy to deal with

Jarate when holding or just spamming it in then pushing is crazy good, easy to just spam it into choke and deny a push and kill everything. Makes playing without Jarate unviable from what I played - same with the old quick fix, you had to use it essentially.

Didn't really notice anything else, sandvich was kind of dumb but I noone used much else than the above. I'd assume rescue ranger would be good but haven't played vs it yet

Edit: Atomizer could theoretically be really strong since you can just dodge the soldier for long enough to kill him but I haven't played soldier vs it yet

Overall, I felt that the Jarate, Rescue Ranger and possibly the Atomizer were the only very broken unlocks. The others could be easily learnt to counter or were comparable to other weapons available - such as the direct hit and loch n load. The parachute seems strong but giving up a weapon for it makes it more of a gimmick than anything.

While on the topic of whitelists, does that idea of renaming them to blacklists still have any weight or is it dead?

i'd also like to point out the big earner because in my experience the speed boost from the stab combined with the buff to base spy speed makes chain-stabs actually possible even if players have good reaction time LOL

I just realized that this is all an elaborate plan by slin to enact revenge on the community that has forsaken him

it's all dog1's fault!!

I'm actually super concerned that no one has said anything about the Big Earner. People realize that on backstab it makes a spy faster than a scout, right? I mean I guess if a lot more broken weapons are allowed its ok, but still. Formula1 spy scares the shit out of me. He could legitimately backstab someone and move so quickly that he gets a 2nd before there's even a reaction

edit: flatline literally sniped me

atomizer unnecessarily buffs scout

yeah lol a scout with the atomizer can now follow that soldier up there

mmm yes i will devour my enemies and munch on them

/

wasn't banned for the last couple seasons
http://whitelist.tf/esea_6v6_s20

is roamer even worth playing any more? you might as well play widow/gunslinger engie/spy/jarate sniper

I've been sworn to secrecy about the specifics, but please note that this whole mess is like 95% slin's fault

The parachute us unbanned?! :(

Is this whitelist on whitelist.tf?

If demos are more powerful, then I'm happy with that. As for the atomizer, can't soldiers run shotgun (and now demos run locknload) to deal with it? Going back to shotgun changes things up a bit, but does it change them for the worse?

can we buff rocket splash now so soldiers can maybe hit scouts?

lft open engie

Winger + Atomizer Jumps:

Snakewater:

Bucket Choke to Tower is approached from left side.
Lower to shutter.
Second Pack to bats.
Shed to Bats fence.
Shed to window.
Africa to second point.
I think if you time to jump right, you can go window to pipe.
Crate to top of mid.
Left roof to Right roof.
Right roof to top roof, barely can't go to right roof.
Main to Catwalk.

That's all I could find.

it's mostly the passive spy speed buff from MYM that makes it so good now, i'm pretty sure they stack (at least that's how it feels)

Big Earner speed buff is the same one that's applied by the Conch and the Disciplinary Action and if the passive buff stacks then he would be moving at around 142% base speed after a backstab

or just make demo not shitty anymore so he can provide some counterplay to scouts again

do them both, revert sticky nerf and buff the radio splash from rockets.