i didnt mean this thread to be about tf2. i was talking real life stuff like school, sports, work, ect. i like what you guys said though. i think hardwork can be applied to all aspects of life.
Upvote
Upvoted
1
Downvote
Downvoted
talent vs hardwork
posted in
TF2 General Discussion
i didnt mean this thread to be about tf2. i was talking real life stuff like school, sports, work, ect. i like what you guys said though. i think hardwork can be applied to all aspects of life.
@ #29
Assuming that 2 games aren't very similiar, aim would be the only thing that directly translates from one game to the other. That would be the only reason a highly skilled quake player would be considered "good" if they just transferred to TF2, because their aim was above average. They still have to learn the meta just like everyone else has to.
@ #29
Assuming that 2 games aren't very similiar, aim would be the only thing that directly translates from one game to the other. That would be the only reason a highly skilled quake player would be considered "good" if they just transferred to TF2, because their aim was above average. They still have to learn the meta just like everyone else has to.
Assuming that 2 games aren't very similiar, aim would be the only thing that directly translates from one game to the other. That would be the only reason a highly skilled quake player would be considered "good" if they just transferred to TF2, because their aim was above average. They still have to learn the meta just like everyone else has to.
understanding of pressure and map control is pretty universal
understanding of pressure and map control is pretty universal
A quote from one of my heroes,
"No, frankly, I think the ideal chessplayer is born.
Of course, I look upon chess as an art, and just as you cannot make a
great painter or a musician, unless the gifts of painting or music are
innate in a person, so also I believe that for anyone to become
outstanding at chess the ability must be born with the player. There is
something much more in championship chess than just following the
somewhat limited rules of the game." - Alexander Alekhine
I agree, and I believe the same is true for most anything. Being in the elite category for anything certainly takes practice, but part of it is just nature.
A quote from one of my heroes,
"No, frankly, I think the ideal chessplayer is born.
Of course, I look upon chess as an art, and just as you cannot make a
great painter or a musician, unless the gifts of painting or music are
innate in a person, so also I believe that for anyone to become
outstanding at chess the ability must be born with the player. There is
something much more in championship chess than just following the
somewhat limited rules of the game." - Alexander Alekhine
I agree, and I believe the same is true for most anything. Being in the elite category for anything certainly takes practice, but part of it is just nature.
"No, frankly, I think the ideal chessplayer is born.
Of course, I look upon chess as an art, and just as you cannot make a
great painter or a musician, unless the gifts of painting or music are
innate in a person, so also I believe that for anyone to become
outstanding at chess the ability must be born with the player. There is
something much more in championship chess than just following the
somewhat limited rules of the game." - Alexander Alekhine
I agree, and I believe the same is true for most anything. Being in the elite category for anything certainly takes practice, but part of it is just nature.
I have been in the same room looking over Carnage's shoulder as he played both tf2 and quake. While he does have about a decade of experience in competitive FPS, it seems like his aim and his ability to think quickly are genuine gifts. I think if you're at that level of anything, talent is going to play a large role.
I have been in the same room looking over Carnage's shoulder as he played both tf2 and quake. While he does have about a decade of experience in competitive FPS, it seems like his aim and his ability to think quickly are genuine gifts. I think if you're at that level of anything, talent is going to play a large role.
talent makes you have to practice less to be elite and gives you starter ground
people keep saying "well you need practice to be good" but like only one post the entire thread objected to that
??????????
talent makes you have to practice less to be elite and gives you starter ground
people keep saying "well you need practice to be good" but like only one post the entire thread objected to that
??????????
people keep saying "well you need practice to be good" but like only one post the entire thread objected to that
??????????
gamers: aiming, movement, gamesense, etc are all skills; anyone can acquire 'skills.' skills are first learned then improved as someone keeps an open (and hopefully optimistic) attitude while practicing and playing.
all in all:
"whether you think you can or can't... you are right."
gamers: aiming, movement, gamesense, etc are all skills; anyone can acquire 'skills.' skills are first learned then improved as someone keeps an open (and hopefully optimistic) attitude while practicing and playing.
all in all:
"whether you think you can or can't... you are right."
all in all:
"whether you think you can or can't... you are right."
you're saying that talent has no effect on skill level when really the example you brought up only shows that practice alone can bring people to skill mastery
which only one person in the thread objected to, and NOT the person you responded to.
you're saying that talent has no effect on skill level when really the example you brought up only shows that practice alone can bring people to skill mastery
which only one person in the thread objected to, and NOT the person you responded to.
which only one person in the thread objected to, and NOT the person you responded to.
#32
Learning the meta arguably takes the least time of all skills in this game and other sports. Many sport fans have a firm grasp on the rules, regulations, and strategies behind the sport. Does that mean that the same observer can be a professional athlete with minimal effort? Fuck no.
There's a reason that the top players have pumped hours upon hours of death-matching ability over multiple games and continue to do so. Players who are washed up after playing for years aren't that way because they forgot how to play the game, they're washed up because they're out of practice with the actual mechanics and DM. Movement and aim aren't exclusive to TF2. They're in every FPS.
The overall point I'm getting at is that learning how to play the game, at least at a basic level, takes much less effort than getting good aim/movement/mechanics.
#32
Learning the meta arguably takes the least time of all skills in this game and other sports. Many sport fans have a firm grasp on the rules, regulations, and strategies behind the sport. Does that mean that the same observer can be a professional athlete with minimal effort? Fuck no.
There's a reason that the top players have pumped hours upon hours of death-matching ability over multiple games and continue to do so. Players who are washed up after playing for years aren't that way because they forgot how to play the game, they're washed up because they're out of practice with the actual mechanics and DM. Movement and aim aren't exclusive to TF2. They're in every FPS.
The overall point I'm getting at is that learning how to play the game, at least at a basic level, takes much less effort than getting good aim/movement/mechanics.
Learning the meta arguably takes the least time of all skills in this game and other sports. Many sport fans have a firm grasp on the rules, regulations, and strategies behind the sport. Does that mean that the same observer can be a professional athlete with minimal effort? Fuck no.
There's a reason that the top players have pumped hours upon hours of death-matching ability over multiple games and continue to do so. Players who are washed up after playing for years aren't that way because they forgot how to play the game, they're washed up because they're out of practice with the actual mechanics and DM. Movement and aim aren't exclusive to TF2. They're in every FPS.
The overall point I'm getting at is that learning how to play the game, at least at a basic level, takes much less effort than getting good aim/movement/mechanics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=_R2Ep6L5gIA#t=1954s
both are important, talent is a spark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=_R2Ep6L5gIA#t=1954s
both are important, talent is a spark.
both are important, talent is a spark.
Don't ever leave your home until you reach invite. Practice, Practice, Practice
Don't ever leave your home until you reach invite. Practice, Practice, Practice
termohard work beats talent
Yes and no
Rapha = big example of "hard work" (more-so than talent)
Cypher = big example of talent (more-so than hard work)
Greyhunter = 60000000 hours of soldier (lol)
TBH this whole discussion is kind of pointless, subjective at best.
[quote=termo]hard work beats talent[/quote]
Yes and no
Rapha = big example of "hard work" (more-so than talent)
Cypher = big example of talent (more-so than hard work)
Greyhunter = 60000000 hours of soldier (lol)
TBH this whole discussion is kind of pointless, subjective at best.
Yes and no
Rapha = big example of "hard work" (more-so than talent)
Cypher = big example of talent (more-so than hard work)
Greyhunter = 60000000 hours of soldier (lol)
TBH this whole discussion is kind of pointless, subjective at best.
cypher would have practiced a lot back in the day just to become an average player in the belarusian duel scene
apparently spent a few years in net cafes, traveled to moscow to play pros, literally was obsessed
yukiGreyhunter = 60000000 hours of soldier (lol)
cypher would have practiced a lot back in the day just to become an average player in the belarusian duel scene
apparently spent a few years in net cafes, traveled to moscow to play pros, literally was obsessed
[quote=yuki]Greyhunter = 60000000 hours of soldier (lol)[/quote]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VECe-cwG7do
apparently spent a few years in net cafes, traveled to moscow to play pros, literally was obsessed
[quote=yuki]Greyhunter = 60000000 hours of soldier (lol)[/quote]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VECe-cwG7do
squid
actually, this man: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3_Polg%C3%A1r
raised two grandmaster chess players as children in an attempt to prove that a grandmaster is taught, and not innately more talented
as far as tf2 goes, i think it is extremely obvious that practice has made the best players who they are today, and that talent probably doesnt play a very large role
Yessssss
An Invite player said something similar to what I said so everyone agreed :D
[quote=squid]
actually, this man: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3_Polg%C3%A1r
raised two grandmaster chess players as children in an attempt to prove that a grandmaster is taught, and not innately more talented
as far as tf2 goes, i think it is extremely obvious that practice has made the best players who they are today, and that talent probably doesnt play a very large role[/quote]
Yessssss
An Invite player said something similar to what I said so everyone agreed :D
actually, this man: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3_Polg%C3%A1r
raised two grandmaster chess players as children in an attempt to prove that a grandmaster is taught, and not innately more talented
as far as tf2 goes, i think it is extremely obvious that practice has made the best players who they are today, and that talent probably doesnt play a very large role[/quote]
Yessssss
An Invite player said something similar to what I said so everyone agreed :D
Talent changes your skill ceiling more than your actual performance. Just because someone is capable of hitting every meatshot, scoring every goal, or answering everything right, doesn't mean they will.
.1 percentage points above failing my English class
Perfect score on the California State Test in English.
come at me no child left behind.
Talent changes your skill ceiling more than your actual performance. Just because someone is capable of hitting every meatshot, scoring every goal, or answering everything right, doesn't mean they will.
.1 percentage points above failing my English class
Perfect score on the California State Test in English.
come at me no child left behind.
.1 percentage points above failing my English class
Perfect score on the California State Test in English.
come at me no child left behind.
passed latin 1 with a rounded-up 60 here
got a magna cum laude on the national latin exam
oh highschool I don't miss you at all
IMO, along the lines of "just because someone is capable of hitting every meatshot...", talent effects where within your skill range you normally play, and your experience ("hard work") defines its boundries. Talent does of course affect how much hard work you need to hit a certain point, but someone with a lot of hard work and no talent will beat someone with a full level's worth less of hard work and all the talent in the world, because the talented person just won't have the experience or skill to stand up to what the person with the more experience. On the same level of experience and skill, the person with more talent wins out. This is why the "ideal" chessplayer must be "born" (or somehow other have the same personal talent as a born one). Anyone can be a grandmaster, though.
passed latin 1 with a rounded-up 60 here
got a magna cum laude on the national latin exam
oh highschool I don't miss you at all
IMO, along the lines of "just because someone is capable of hitting every meatshot...", talent effects where within your skill range you normally play, and your experience ("hard work") defines its boundries. Talent does of course affect how much hard work you need to hit a certain point, but someone with a lot of hard work and no talent will beat someone with a full level's worth less of hard work and all the talent in the world, because the talented person just won't have the experience or skill to stand up to what the person with the more experience. On the same level of experience and skill, the person with more talent wins out. This is why the "ideal" chessplayer must be "born" (or somehow other have the same personal talent as a born one). Anyone can be a grandmaster, though.
got a magna cum laude on the national latin exam
oh highschool I don't miss you at all
IMO, along the lines of "just because someone is capable of hitting every meatshot...", talent effects where within your skill range you normally play, and your experience ("hard work") defines its boundries. Talent does of course affect how much hard work you need to hit a certain point, but someone with a lot of hard work and no talent will beat someone with a full level's worth less of hard work and all the talent in the world, because the talented person just won't have the experience or skill to stand up to what the person with the more experience. On the same level of experience and skill, the person with more talent wins out. This is why the "ideal" chessplayer must be "born" (or somehow other have the same personal talent as a born one). Anyone can be a grandmaster, though.
I can't tell if that's supposed to be self-deprecating or not.
I can't tell if that's supposed to be self-deprecating or not.
As the old saying goes: If you want to be the best, you have to beat the best.
Practicing on lotusclan servers all day will not really help skill. You will peak after so long. But you throw that same person into pugs and MGE, they will quickly start seeing new techniques, practice them, and proceed onto a higher plateau.
I learned this in grade school with ping pong, and finally in college I was playing a one time Romanian national champ. He was incredible and hardly missed shots. But the more I played him, the more consistent I got. It works in TF2 just the same. I would say I'm a decent Soldier and hold my own. If I MGE'd vs Ruwin or Platinum or TLR constantly for a while it would change my performance much more than if I played random pubbies in MGE.
As the old saying goes: If you want to be the best, you have to beat the best.
Practicing on lotusclan servers all day will not really help skill. You will peak after so long. But you throw that same person into pugs and MGE, they will quickly start seeing new techniques, practice them, and proceed onto a higher plateau.
I learned this in grade school with ping pong, and finally in college I was playing a one time Romanian national champ. He was incredible and hardly missed shots. But the more I played him, the more consistent I got. It works in TF2 just the same. I would say I'm a decent Soldier and hold my own. If I MGE'd vs Ruwin or Platinum or TLR constantly for a while it would change my performance much more than if I played random pubbies in MGE.
Practicing on lotusclan servers all day will not really help skill. You will peak after so long. But you throw that same person into pugs and MGE, they will quickly start seeing new techniques, practice them, and proceed onto a higher plateau.
I learned this in grade school with ping pong, and finally in college I was playing a one time Romanian national champ. He was incredible and hardly missed shots. But the more I played him, the more consistent I got. It works in TF2 just the same. I would say I'm a decent Soldier and hold my own. If I MGE'd vs Ruwin or Platinum or TLR constantly for a while it would change my performance much more than if I played random pubbies in MGE.
Please
sign in through STEAM
to post a comment.