I'd like to take froyotech to i61 still. The tournament announcement came just in time for it to be feasible. We will be making the decision this week most likely, but a couple loose ends need to be tied up. You'll know when we know.
That being said, shade's sentiments in the clips above are still probably right anyways. In almost all respects, Rewind is a far superior LAN for the TF2 community (PCs provided, production provided, stage provided, free live spectating, cheap travel to LAX, etc). Because we've had nothing except Insomnia for our annual international LANs people have naturally become quite attached, but I think we would be just fine if we had to replace it with an annual international Rewind type LAN. It's kind of similar to the ESEA discussions lately, except in this case there is an actual viable alternative available. Of course, the more the merrier and the healthier our scene is if we can sustain them both, so I'm still hoping we can make them both successful.
I'd like to take froyotech to i61 still. The tournament announcement came just in time for it to be feasible. We will be making the decision this week most likely, but a couple loose ends need to be tied up. You'll know when we know.
That being said, shade's sentiments in the clips above are still probably right anyways. In almost all respects, Rewind is a far superior LAN for the TF2 community (PCs provided, production provided, stage provided, free live spectating, cheap travel to LAX, etc). Because we've had nothing except Insomnia for our annual international LANs people have naturally become quite attached, but I think we would be just fine if we had to replace it with an annual international Rewind type LAN. It's kind of similar to the ESEA discussions lately, except in this case there is an actual viable alternative available. Of course, the more the merrier and the healthier our scene is if we can sustain them both, so I'm still hoping we can make them both successful.
haven't froyo put up their fundraiser late for the past 2 years anyway and still got funded fine
haven't froyo put up their fundraiser late for the past 2 years anyway and still got funded fine
gemmhaven't froyo put up their fundraiser late for the past 2 years anyway and still got funded fine
iirc the fundraiser is for reimbursment, not actually purchasing anything. as such, they can have a late fundraiser as they arent waiting super long for purchases.
[quote=gemm]haven't froyo put up their fundraiser late for the past 2 years anyway and still got funded fine[/quote]
iirc the fundraiser is for reimbursment, not actually purchasing anything. as such, they can have a late fundraiser as they arent waiting super long for purchases.
Thing is many NA teams are trash by froyo standards, as trash as EU teams are by se7en standards.
EU or NA, you'll always have 2 teams max/continent able to compete at the very top. EU had epsi/broder, seven/full tilt, NA had mixup/Froyo and EVL/Froyo.
So of course people will advocate going to the closest/cheapest event. Too bad neither se7en nor froyotech reached their goals of 'self sustaining orgs'. Maybe delivering t shirts in time would have helped?
Thing is many NA teams are trash by froyo standards, as trash as EU teams are by se7en standards.
EU or NA, you'll always have 2 teams max/continent able to compete at the very top. EU had epsi/broder, seven/full tilt, NA had mixup/Froyo and EVL/Froyo.
So of course people will advocate going to the closest/cheapest event. Too bad neither se7en nor froyotech reached their goals of 'self sustaining orgs'. Maybe delivering t shirts in time would have helped?
Twiggy
So of course people will advocate going to the closest/cheapest event. Too bad neither se7en nor froyotech reached their goals of 'self sustaining orgs'. Maybe delivering t shirts in time would have helped?
maybe announcing the prizepool to an intercontinental event would have helped shitcunt
[quote=Twiggy]
So of course people will advocate going to the closest/cheapest event. Too bad neither se7en nor froyotech reached their goals of 'self sustaining orgs'. Maybe delivering t shirts in time would have helped?[/quote]
maybe announcing the prizepool to an intercontinental event would have helped shitcunt
killing the big international eu lan is probably not a good idea until we have a replacement for it though
killing the big international eu lan is probably not a good idea until we have a replacement for it though
b4nnyI'd like to take froyotech to i61 still. The tournament announcement came just in time for it to be feasible. We will be making the decision this week most likely, but a couple loose ends need to be tied up. You'll know when we know.
That being said, shade's sentiments in the clips above are still probably right anyways. In almost all respects, Rewind is a far superior LAN for the TF2 community (PCs provided, production provided, stage provided, free live spectating, cheap travel to LAX, etc). Because we've had nothing except Insomnia for our annual international LANs people have naturally become quite attached, but I think we would be just fine if we had to replace it with an annual international Rewind type LAN. It's kind of similar to the ESEA discussions lately, except in this case there is an actual viable alternative available. Of course, the more the merrier and the healthier our scene is if we can sustain them both, so I'm still hoping we can make them both successful.
Until ESA can front up the prizepool that Multiplay have in the past maybe hold off on the ambitions of replacing it as the go to international LAN.
[quote=b4nny]I'd like to take froyotech to i61 still. The tournament announcement came just in time for it to be feasible. We will be making the decision this week most likely, but a couple loose ends need to be tied up. You'll know when we know.
That being said, shade's sentiments in the clips above are still probably right anyways. In almost all respects, Rewind is a far superior LAN for the TF2 community (PCs provided, production provided, stage provided, free live spectating, cheap travel to LAX, etc). Because we've had nothing except Insomnia for our annual international LANs people have naturally become quite attached, but I think we would be just fine if we had to replace it with an annual international Rewind type LAN. It's kind of similar to the ESEA discussions lately, except in this case there is an actual viable alternative available. Of course, the more the merrier and the healthier our scene is if we can sustain them both, so I'm still hoping we can make them both successful.[/quote]
Until ESA can front up the prizepool that Multiplay have in the past maybe hold off on the ambitions of replacing it as the go to international LAN.
b4nnyIn almost all respects, Rewind is a far superior LAN for the TF2 community (PCs provided, production provided, stage provided, free live spectating, cheap travel to LAX, etc). Because we've had nothing except Insomnia for our annual international LANs people have naturally become quite attached, but I think we would be just fine if we had to replace it with an annual international Rewind type LAN. [...] Of course, the more the merrier and the healthier our scene is if we can sustain them both, so I'm still hoping we can make them both successful.
Rewind was great overall and I agree for the most part, but I would like to point out that it was by no means problem free. Yes, there were provided PCs, but ironically, the esports arena was only able to provide PCs with 60hz monitors for the entirety of the open group (aside from those few locals who were able to bring a monitor with them). IIRC, even a few of the invite teams had to scrim on 60hz for the first day because there weren't enough proper monitors. My open team had to play on 60hz up until the grand finals when we decided to just poach monitors from invite teams that had been knocked out before.
That's not even to mention the headache that was having to shuffle from table to table like a game of musical chairs since there weren't enough computers/seats for everyone. And it was near impossible to save demos because in addition to the constant switching of computers, the PCs for some reason wiped all of your data after being restarted.
At i58, the PC rentals provided everyone with proper 144hz monitors & PCs that didn't randomly wipe your data, and there was assigned seating so nobody had to shuffle their stuff from place to place. That's not to say there aren't drawbacks, like the fact that there was no tf2 on the main stage and and the much higher travel costs (also ofc birmingham is no sunny socal), but I think you may be a bit biased since the venue for rewind was literally like 20 minutes away from where you live.
[quote=b4nny]In almost all respects, Rewind is a far superior LAN for the TF2 community ([b]PCs provided[/b], production provided, stage provided, free live spectating, cheap travel to LAX, etc). Because we've had nothing except Insomnia for our annual international LANs people have naturally become quite attached, but I think we would be just fine if we had to replace it with an annual international Rewind type LAN. [...] Of course, the more the merrier and the healthier our scene is if we can sustain them both, so I'm still hoping we can make them both successful. [/quote]
Rewind was great overall and I agree for the most part, but I would like to point out that it was by no means problem free. Yes, there were provided PCs, but ironically, the esports arena was only able to provide PCs with 60hz monitors for the entirety of the open group (aside from those few locals who were able to bring a monitor with them). IIRC, even a few of the invite teams had to scrim on 60hz for the first day because there weren't enough proper monitors. My open team had to play on 60hz up until the grand finals when we decided to just poach monitors from invite teams that had been knocked out before.
That's not even to mention the headache that was having to shuffle from table to table like a game of musical chairs since there weren't enough computers/seats for everyone. And it was near impossible to save demos because in addition to the constant switching of computers, the PCs for some reason wiped all of your data after being restarted.
At i58, the PC rentals provided everyone with proper 144hz monitors & PCs that didn't randomly wipe your data, and there was assigned seating so nobody had to shuffle their stuff from place to place. That's not to say there aren't drawbacks, like the fact that there was no tf2 on the main stage and and the much higher travel costs (also ofc birmingham is no sunny socal), but I think you may be a bit biased since the venue for rewind was literally like 20 minutes away from where you live.
how many times have eu teams came to na compared to how many times na teams go to eu.
http://et-38d7.kxcdn.com/twitter-svg/1f914.svg
i think its time to ditch iseries tbh. euros can come here for a change (yes i know its happened before but like 1 or two teams total and it was last year right?) also its quite a bit cheaper for them to come to the us than the other way around
how many times have eu teams came to na compared to how many times na teams go to eu.[img]http://et-38d7.kxcdn.com/twitter-svg/1f914.svg[/img] i think its time to ditch iseries tbh. euros can come here for a change (yes i know its happened before but like 1 or two teams total and it was last year right?) also its quite a bit cheaper for them to come to the us than the other way around
this doesnt need to turn into an eu vs na thing lol, both continents have 1 lan a year and we can keep it like that
this doesnt need to turn into an eu vs na thing lol, both continents have 1 lan a year and we can keep it like that
BumFreezethis doesnt need to turn into an eu vs na thing lol, both continents have 1 lan a year and we can keep it like that
i agree but you dont think i have a valid argument? na teams have went to europe way more times than the other way around. should we not try to make it fair??
[quote=BumFreeze]this doesnt need to turn into an eu vs na thing lol, both continents have 1 lan a year and we can keep it like that[/quote]
i agree but you dont think i have a valid argument? na teams have went to europe way more times than the other way around. should we not try to make it fair??
Speaking only from an open bracket pov the tournament at rewind was pretty fucking terrible. We waited 3 hours for 1 player who had several technical issues which included having to switch pcs and reinstall tf2 more than once. The monitors were an obvious issue and many of the tables were wobbly. Musical chairs was a major pain as well.
All that said I'm not sure how much of this applies to the invite bracket and also please keep doing esa because I can't go to Europe lol.
Speaking only from an open bracket pov the tournament at rewind was pretty fucking terrible. We waited 3 hours for 1 player who had several technical issues which included having to switch pcs and reinstall tf2 more than once. The monitors were an obvious issue and many of the tables were wobbly. Musical chairs was a major pain as well.
All that said I'm not sure how much of this applies to the invite bracket and also please keep doing esa because I can't go to Europe lol.
No, you don't.
I'm pretty sure you need flights both ways either way so the direction doesn't matter.
Is it cheaper for europeans to go to england or for americans to go to California?
Also price pools matter a lot for the cost.
It should be about which is the better LAN, not what you think is fair.
No, you don't.
I'm pretty sure you need flights both ways either way so the direction doesn't matter.
Is it cheaper for europeans to go to england or for americans to go to California?
Also price pools matter a lot for the cost.
It should be about which is the better LAN, not what you think is fair.
guess im wrong... getting minus fragged to hell lmao
http://i.imgur.com/Divi9yo.png?1
guess im wrong... getting minus fragged to hell lmao [img]http://i.imgur.com/Divi9yo.png?1[/img]
idk, just my opinion and I know other people have feelings towards money etc but don't the big NA teams get majorly funded by the community anyway?
If that can happen and its not too big of a loss out of pocket for americans to come here why not? I go to LAN for the experience and for meeting people not for monetary reasons; like the loss of a few 100 quid for me is a fair trade off for the time at LAN and experience with people. And I'm sure this monetary loss for big NA teams is somewhat similar to a few 100 quid (4-500?) If they're majorly funded anyway.
Then again I don't actually know the loss that the Americans experience even with community support and this is just my opinion towards money, others may feel a bit more attached to it/cant afford to spend that amount.
Feelings are especially the case if its unknown if the game will even be that alive for rewind
idk, just my opinion and I know other people have feelings towards money etc but don't the big NA teams get majorly funded by the community anyway?
If that can happen and its not too big of a loss out of pocket for americans to come here why not? I go to LAN for the experience and for meeting people not for monetary reasons; like the loss of a few 100 quid for me is a fair trade off for the time at LAN and experience with people. And I'm sure this monetary loss for big NA teams is somewhat similar to a few 100 quid (4-500?) If they're majorly funded anyway.
Then again I don't actually know the loss that the Americans experience even with community support and this is just my opinion towards money, others may feel a bit more attached to it/cant afford to spend that amount.
Feelings are especially the case if its unknown if the game will even be that alive for rewind
You have 1/2 na teams come over to an eu heavy lan and you also have 1/2 eu teams come over to an na heavy lan. Seems fair to me tbh like i series is a lot more than just the top teams and rewind is also a lot more than just the top teams.
You have 1/2 na teams come over to an eu heavy lan and you also have 1/2 eu teams come over to an na heavy lan. Seems fair to me tbh like i series is a lot more than just the top teams and rewind is also a lot more than just the top teams.
I will preface this again by saying I hope we can sustain more LANs in the scene and we are still hopeful for attending i61. So that said, there's no denying that Rewind had some issues so hopefully we will have someone from ESA confirm how those will be addressed for future events. If those were fixed, though, I could not see any reason why Rewind wouldn't be considered the best LAN in the world for TF2. Furthermore, I feel like dealing with ESA is a little bit more straightforward and community based compared to what you see at Multiplay (unless your community is the comment section of a Minecraft YouTube video). After the last TF2 admins left Multiplay it seems there's a huge barrier of communication which has contributed to the situation we are in right now with attendance being uncertain. Plus, the prizes offered for i58 and Rewind were nearly identical, so I don't see that being an issue. We tend to find a way to make the events we care about big. Prizes aside, from my understanding, one of ESA's priorities is to make their events worth attending for top level teams which could come in the form of other travel accommodations instead of prizes, which is just as valuable in my opinion. Bottom line is we should have a solid TF2 LAN to rely on either way as long as we maintain our relationships with Multiplay and ESA, which is a good position to be in.
I will preface this again by saying I hope we can sustain more LANs in the scene and we are still hopeful for attending i61. So that said, there's no denying that Rewind had some issues so hopefully we will have someone from ESA confirm how those will be addressed for future events. If those were fixed, though, I could not see any reason why Rewind wouldn't be considered the best LAN in the world for TF2. Furthermore, I feel like dealing with ESA is a little bit more straightforward and community based compared to what you see at Multiplay (unless your community is the comment section of a Minecraft YouTube video). After the last TF2 admins left Multiplay it seems there's a huge barrier of communication which has contributed to the situation we are in right now with attendance being uncertain. Plus, the prizes offered for i58 and Rewind were nearly identical, so I don't see that being an issue. We tend to find a way to make the events we care about big. Prizes aside, from my understanding, one of ESA's priorities is to make their events worth attending for top level teams which could come in the form of other travel accommodations instead of prizes, which is just as valuable in my opinion. Bottom line is we should have a solid TF2 LAN to rely on either way as long as we maintain our relationships with Multiplay and ESA, which is a good position to be in.
-protoBumFreezethis doesnt need to turn into an eu vs na thing lol, both continents have 1 lan a year and we can keep it like that
i agree but you dont think i have a valid argument? na teams have went to europe way more times than the other way around. should we not try to make it fair??
Point of a LAN is for the community to meet up. NA / AU players are a luxury at I-series, the event is better with them but survived without them. Most of the people come go for the social aspect not for the TF2 aspect. The opportunity for the best NA team to play the best 6 EU teams is what this LAN is about, and Rewind gives the best EU team a chance to play the 4 best NA teams. You never see Mid Prem EU teams play Mid Invite NA teams due to logistics.
[quote=-proto][quote=BumFreeze]this doesnt need to turn into an eu vs na thing lol, both continents have 1 lan a year and we can keep it like that[/quote]
i agree but you dont think i have a valid argument? na teams have went to europe way more times than the other way around. should we not try to make it fair??[/quote]
Point of a LAN is for the community to meet up. NA / AU players are a luxury at I-series, the event is better with them but survived without them. Most of the people come go for the social aspect not for the TF2 aspect. The opportunity for the best NA team to play the best 6 EU teams is what this LAN is about, and Rewind gives the best EU team a chance to play the 4 best NA teams. You never see Mid Prem EU teams play Mid Invite NA teams due to logistics.
Wasn't it also stated by the Aussies that flying to West Coast US was much less of a hassle than making the journey to England? Obviously making the journey abroad is a long one but there certainly has to be a difference
I'd also like to see the 4th place curse broken BibleThump
Wasn't it also stated by the Aussies that flying to West Coast US was much less of a hassle than making the journey to England? Obviously making the journey abroad is a long one but there certainly has to be a difference
I'd also like to see the 4th place curse broken BibleThump
I guess that would actually make a difference.
The 4th place curse can't be broken though. I'm pretty sure if only 3 teams signed up 30 minutes before the group stages start Jesus himself would descend from heaven with a team and politely ask to be included in the bracket.
I guess that would actually make a difference.
The 4th place curse can't be broken though. I'm pretty sure if only 3 teams signed up 30 minutes before the group stages start Jesus himself would descend from heaven with a team and politely ask to be included in the bracket.
SetsulNo, you don't.
I'm pretty sure you need flights both ways either way so the direction doesn't matter.
Is it cheaper for europeans to go to england or for americans to go to California?
Also price pools matter a lot for the cost.
It should be about which is the better LAN, not what you think is fair.
LAX is one of the cheapest airports to fly into
[quote=Setsul]No, you don't.
I'm pretty sure you need flights both ways either way so the direction doesn't matter.
Is it cheaper for europeans to go to england or for americans to go to California?
Also price pools matter a lot for the cost.
It should be about which is the better LAN, not what you think is fair.[/quote]
LAX is one of the cheapest airports to fly into
It would be awesome if we (the community) could fund two major international lans a year. iSeries is a great opporutnity for NA people to travel to EU for a couple of days and meet people there but it's simply not feasible for a lot of NA people to travel there and the majority of the audience is EU players meeting EU players with a handful of NA players thrown in.
ESA was a good chance for NA people to meet more NA people with a handful of EU players thrown in. I'd love to go to an iSeries one time but I can't take time off of school to travel for 4-5 days. ESA is only about an hour drive from me and it was great to meet NA people as well as some EU players.
Especially since LAX is one of the biggest international airports it's convinent for most people who wants to fly there. Luckily I'm close to it so tickets to EU are cheap for me so if I could manage to go getting a flight wouldn't be a problem. The problem is for people that don't live near airport's like LAX such as knuckles with his $1300 plane tickets.
As b4nny has said though having two options (iSeries and ESA) is great.
It would be awesome if we (the community) could fund two major international lans a year. iSeries is a great opporutnity for NA people to travel to EU for a couple of days and meet people there but it's simply not feasible for a lot of NA people to travel there and the majority of the audience is EU players meeting EU players with a handful of NA players thrown in.
ESA was a good chance for NA people to meet more NA people with a handful of EU players thrown in. I'd love to go to an iSeries one time but I can't take time off of school to travel for 4-5 days. ESA is only about an hour drive from me and it was great to meet NA people as well as some EU players.
Especially since LAX is one of the biggest international airports it's convinent for most people who wants to fly there. Luckily I'm close to it so tickets to EU are cheap for me so if I could manage to go getting a flight wouldn't be a problem. The problem is for people that don't live near airport's like LAX such as knuckles with his $1300 plane tickets.
As b4nny has said though having two options (iSeries and ESA) is great.
hey they skipped i59 and i60
hey they skipped i59 and i60
NA had tonnes of lans each year (ESEA, GXL, FITES) before EU started getting stuff like dreamhack and GA. Personally I think we should ban NA from going to any lans for a few years to make it fair.
NA had tonnes of lans each year (ESEA, GXL, FITES) before EU started getting stuff like dreamhack and GA. Personally I think we should ban NA from going to any lans for a few years to make it fair.
How many NA teams would request funding to go to Rewind?
How many NA teams would request funding to go to Rewind?
paulsen__ : wtf
paulsen__ : we just bought our tickets too
handsomeboy__ : wait rly?? @paulsen__ PogChamp
paulsen__ : ye c u @
i guess its gonna be a international lan even if froyo dosnt show up.
edit : nvm
paulsen__ : Jebaited
paulsen__ : wtf
paulsen__ : we just bought our tickets too
handsomeboy__ : wait rly?? @paulsen__ PogChamp
paulsen__ : ye c u @
i guess its gonna be a international lan even if froyo dosnt show up.
edit : nvm
paulsen__ : Jebaited
Asia and South America should go, to make up for it.
Asia and South America should go, to make up for it.
AdebisiAsia and South America should go, to make up for it.
teejay on LAN would be P H A T
[quote=Adebisi]Asia and South America should go, to make up for it.[/quote]
teejay on LAN would be P H A T
HiipFireAdebisiAsia and South America should go, to make up for it.
teejay on LAN would be P H A T
Aye.
From a general point of view, it feels like TF2's community is EU, Oz and NA. They're very much out of the main picture and it's a shame really.
Would be cool for a team or two from Asia or SA to get to a major LAN.
[quote=HiipFire][quote=Adebisi]Asia and South America should go, to make up for it.[/quote]
teejay on LAN would be P H A T[/quote]
Aye.
From a general point of view, it feels like TF2's community is EU, Oz and NA. They're very much out of the main picture and it's a shame really.
Would be cool for a team or two from Asia or SA to get to a major LAN.
whens asia/aussie mixteam at i61
whens asia/aussie mixteam at i61